Imagine a scruffy, unremarkable vagrant walks into a truck stop.
He shuffles over to a table full of road weary, long haul truckers.
The hobo says, “Hey guys! Can I talk to you for a minute?”
He talks.
The truckers talk.
After a time, everyone gets up.
The truckers leave the keys to their rigs in the ashtray on the table.
The group piles into a beat up conversion van and drives off.
Weird, huh?
What did that guy say to make those truckers get up and follow him?
There’s no mention of the incident on the evening news.
A couple of guys interview the truckers a few years later.
They tell crazy stories of sick people getting healed and dead people coming to life.
Wackos, huh?
Nut jobs.
The truckers tell the interview guy that the hobo got himself arrested.
Disturbing the peace.
Rabble rousing.
The dude was executed.
Then he came back to life too.
The truckers saw him.
A bunch of other people saw him too.
So imagine these truckers going around telling this story.
Would you believe it?
Nah.
Me neither.
No sane person would believe a story like that.
20 years pass.
The story is forgotten.
Now imagine a scruffy, unremarkable vagrant walks onto a beach.
He shuffles over to a group of sun weary fishermen.
The hobo says, “I want to talk to you guys!”
The fishermen leave their nets.
Nobody notices.
A hobo and some fishermen. Nothing to see here.
Somebody writes down some crazy stories about this hobo.
He heals the sick.
He is crucified.
(What did that hobo do to get into so much trouble?)
He rises from the dead.
No sane person would believe a story like that.
Especially when retelling the story can get you killed!
Right?
So why is the story still around?
Why do billions of people still talk about that scruffy hobo?
Why didn’t the story die with the fishermen?
Weird, huh?
270 Responses
This is a really cool story and very appropriate for this season. Not really caring to read the negative comments and the insults just know that I enjoyed this.
Wanted to add something with relative and historical backing… After 255 assorted posts, people who resort to name-calling, profanity, and circular arguements have a high probabilty of being Atheists
They fucking are, right?
Dreadful! Should we report them to the Inquisition, Mike?
I think you should call a Prayer Meet and get Yahweh to smite ’em.
You made the blog again!
Vacuous and ignorant urchin that you are!
Stats and history.
Can’t argue with that.
Also, science.
Excellent! Then let’s discuss the Exodus.
What is your position re: the historical reliability of this most famous of biblical tales?
And would you please provide at least some evidence to support any claims, John.
Thanks.
Hey little stone god………..
There is nothing to DISCUSS. You do not believe it occurred. Period.
If scripture itself is not sufficient, then a thousand angels or ten thousand devils could convince you either.
So let it be written………… it is called the word of God for a reason, and needs no attestation by fools.
So do you believe the bible is historically accurate?
You have my response confused doug; it is not a ‘tale,’ which tales unfold…….and are spun at your place; yes, the tales of atheism.
Frogs and locusts and escapes oh my. Here’s a bonus thought for the day: hardhearted. And yep, no Discussion needed.
So you are delusional then. Thanks.
No doug. Delusional would be you telling your children that the chair you are sitting on made itself.
As I said, no Discussion needed.
Yes, John, that might be considered an example of delusional.
But the fact you believe the bible is historically reliable is even more so.
I mean, you are either willfully ignorant or indoctrinated or just a bit simple … or a damn liar.
Four options. That’s quite a choice you have there, John.
I wonder which one you will pick?
(Liar is the safest bet, trust me!)
Oh doug, you are entirely too short sighted, narrowminded, ans incapable of seeing the jewels of scripture.
Not only is scripture historically accurately, it also paints an accurate picture of the future.
As in, buying and selling for instance. We live in an age where we see God’s utter wisdom in pointing out that all commerce will be handled without cash. Uh, things have been progressing rapidly in this direction………
You may want to put that in your pipe and smoke it for a while.
All this from a trucker truckin……..
Jewels of scripture?
*Smile*
The problem with an indoctrinated dickheads like you , John is you believe you are reading diamonds when in fact all it that’s happening is you are blinded by cheap paste.
‘He made the stars also…………’
Yes. A gem. So understated. So elegant. So simple. So easy a caveman can understand it. So deep no man can comprehend it. Such language. So unassuming. So much like God.
‘A wise son maketh a glad father.’ Yep, gems wherever you turn. Soooooooooo, when are you going to wake up.
You most certainly don’t and this is to be expected as you are an ignorant fraud.
However, there are a great many highly qualified scholars who do understand it.
Are you never embarrassed at the depths of your ignorance?
In other words, here you are applauding ‘scholars’ who believe not one word of scripture, while crucifying others who actually believe the narrative.
Your blatant hypocrisy knows no measure.
‘He made the stars also.’ Now go worship your scholar friends who have a problem with this.
I don’t know how to drop my intellect to a suitable level to form a meaningful reply to this comment.
So I’ll just say, Oh, wow! What the Fuck! and we can leave it at that, okay?
And with this comment of yours, the whole world can see the utter uselessness of atheism, using your own words to hang yourself.
Nice work. Mom should be proud.
Because I think you are a dumb fuck therefore atheism is useless?
That’s a theist’s analysis is it?
Mum is proud. You have no idea.
And doing very well, thanks for asking.
Once more you miss the point staring you in the face.
Your LANGUAGE betrays you. If atheism was so valuable………..then surely you would avail yourself of more highly colorful words found in the dictionary………….unless of course, you want to prove what I have been saying all along: atheism is a downward spiral of a useless and irrelevant world view, affirmed by the lips of the godless.
Atheism is the bastard son which pretends to be the smart one, but is merely the fool.
(bastard: look it up in Websters)
And btw, scripture agrees, of course it does, truth always agrees with truth, and exposes the blackness of night.
Oh, I see the confusion.
You think because I call you a Dumb Fuck my vocabulary is somehow stunted?
Not in the least, Colorstorm, Dumb Fuck is not me swearing at you but an accurate character description.
Same as if I suggested you go fuck yourself.
Thank you for the veiled compliment.
As I said, mom should be proud of such intellect……………..
And as I said. She most certainly is.
John,
There is nothing new under the sun.
Even in the time of the New Testament, people thought the believers were crazy when they spoke of Christ, His works, and His resurrection. They accused the disciples of being drunk when they spoke in other languages on Pentecost. Festus told Paul that his great learning was driving him out of his mind (Acts 26:24).
What the world thinks of as crazy is just business as usual for God. He is the Author of crazy, taking a bunch of ragtag misfits and making them His people. This holds true with the children of Israel in the Old Testament and the church in the New Testament. He isn’t in the habit of taking the cream of the crop and choosing them. He picks us messed up ones and makes us a masterpiece of His handiwork. (Ephesians 2:10). He takes the downtrodden and forms a mighty army as His church that the gates of Hell will not prevail against. God is even crazy enough to lay out His final plan there for Satan to see, knowing that His Hand will not be thwarted. (Rev 20:10) He is crazy enough to choose a way of salvation that goes against anything we would come up with. Faith, not works. Belief, not earning with good deeds. He even tell us, His people, to behave in a way that will confuse the world. Don’t get even, put others first, to be great be the least, to be a leader be a servant. Crazy stuff.
As for me and my house, we will go with the crazy.
Dave
Acts 26:25 (ESV) – But Paul said, “I am not out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I am speaking true and rational words.”
Ark Garfunkle tosses much bigger turds than most of the other chimp descendants. As far as turd tossing goes – it’s impressive.
Relevant statisticians tell us that there is very little money to be made in turd tossing; ergo, it generates very little tax revenue. Turns out turd tossers don’t help the poor.
~CQW
He makes way more noise when he tosses them too!
Hey, Senor Fuckwit.
How’s your potty training going?
Do you still need someone to wipe your arse for you?
Wally said ….
However ….
Wally: https://lynnthaler.com/2016/08/19/creation-story-literal-or-figurative/
So … quite possibly lying.
my emphasis
Question:
Do you think taking the Bible literally means you have to believe the earth is young?
Depends on one’s interpretation.
Right.
So, when Wally says he’s a literalist, but also says he’s not totally sure whether the earth is young or old, why would you suggest he’s lying?
Sounds like open-mindedness to me.
Am I wrong?
Don’t want to answer the question I asked?
I’ll rephrase it:
Why are you here, accusing people of being fundies and idiots and “possible liars,” when you can’t even explain what they’re possibly lying about?
If you actually think that your angry diatribes are showing other people how “erudite” it is to be an Atheist, you’re dead wrong. I’m telling you this for the same reason I wouldn’t let a tone-deaf friend try out for American Idol. They will be allowed to sing because it’s good TV. And everyone will make fun of them.
For your sake, you really should go back to just “subbing.”
”when you can’t even explain what they’re possibly lying about?”
For exampe: Your father states the bible is entirely historical.
Does he really believe this?
Do you?
I doubt it. And to continue to tout that it is, is basically a lie.
I was asking about Wacko Wally, who you accused of “possibly lying” when he had a short conversation with me about the age of the earth.
Buzz off. You know ONE TRICK, and it’s insulting Christians who know more than you on a topic.
Ah, sorry. I didn’t think you were being person specific buy referring to liars for Jesus in general.
Wally is probably just seriously confused, (read: deluded) which is why I said ”possibly.”
You and your father on the other hand ….
Repeating, “You guys are liars” over and over and over doesn’t make it true.
You still haven’t backed up any of your claims, and you’re being mocked for it. We’re literally DARING YOU to lay out a case some time instead of unleashing your angry words…
Maybe start by quoting the place where my dad said “The Bible is entirely historical.”
I don’t think I ever wrote You guys are liars.”
This is not the way I write.
John Branyan October 2, 2016 at 6:26 pm
History supports everything in the Bible.
Just look it up!
This is false.
And he knows it.
So what would you call someone who touts such nonsense?
Delusional, willfully ignorant or a liar?
Because iof you assert he does believe it then ”Houston, we have a frakking huge problem.”
So you tell me. Is your dad off his rocker or a liar?
Ha!
Yeah, that’s what I thought you were referring to…
I call people who say those types of things “funny.”
You must be the only one reading who missed the fact that you were being trolled. JB was copying what you Atheists do, when you show up here yelling “science and history!” but never support those claims.
I was in the room with him when he switched from trying to have an honest teaching moment into “All Out Troll Mode.” That’s what he calls sarcastically throwing out ridiculous things (like “Atheists eat babies”) because you’re going to call him a liar either way. He figures, “Might as well have fun toying with these guys…and show the other readers how easy it is to unravel them.”
So–there. I’ve explained what has been happening, like you’re a 6-year-old. Feel free to reject all of it, because I’m a lying Christian. But, I’m telling you (just like I told JZ yesterday), you guys are embarrassing yourselves. You’re out of your league.
Unless you’re going to let go of those egos a little bit and humbly admit that you get MOST of what you believe through faith in other Atheists (and blocking out Christians), then you’re not going to get very far around here.
We will call your bluff.
And then start laughing at you.
So he doesn’t believe the bible is historically accurate?
Is this what you are telling me?
I’m telling you that it doesn’t matter what I tell you.
In your head, Atheists are the erudite ones, and Christians are either helpless victims of indoctrination or liars.
Why do you keep coming here to ask what JB or I think? You will identify as an Atheist either way.
Of course I will always identify as an atheist.. Why on earth would you think I would change?
Because of Revelation? Sheesh!
So, if you say your dad is simply ”taking the piss” and is not lying, then I sincerely apologise for saying so and for failing to recognise his off-the-wall sense of humour (sic).
Therefore, he ( and I presume you as well) acknowledge that the bible is not historically reliable.
Well, I am happy we have sorted that out at last.
Say sorry to your dad for me if he is sitting next to you ….
Are you going to explain this to Wally?
It would be better coming from a fellow believer, don’t you agree?
Wally and I were having a pleasant exchange about the age of the Earth, when you jumped in to throw stones at him. He was saying that he “leans” one way (and I tend to “lean” the other). But both of us are open-minded enough to listen to both sides.
I’d be surprised if I agree with Wally about EVERYTHING.
And I know for a fact that I don’t agree with my dad about EVERYTHING.
The difference is, they’re willing to consider the other sources. And–so far–you’ve refused to discuss any of the resources I’ve shown you: quotes, articles, and videos… Even things written by Atheists!
That’s why I enjoy disagreeing with my dad and Wally. But listening to you is like smashing my toe with a hammer. 🙂
Really? Which atheists have you linked?
No atheist has a god-belief.
So, just to clarify, are we on the same page regarding the lack of historical reliability of the bible?
I’ve linked to Richard Dawkins about rape.
I’ve linked to Clarence Darrow about morality.
I’ve linked to Adam Rosenberg about the philosophy of determinism.
And then there were dozens of experts who are Christians that I tried to quote. But you rejected them before even listening to their case.
So–just to clarify–I’m not “on the same page” with someone who isn’t here to learn.
Oh, Dawkins and Darrow.
I explained my position on those two, bur you weren’t happy with my explanation and went off on a huge farking tangent about morality, for which you understand absolutely nothing pertaining to humanity and evolution.
The Christian position on the above is not worth spit and Christianity is one of the more immoral worldviews there is.
So if we are not on the same page regarding the historical reliability of the bible, then maybe you are being disingenuous, are in fact delusional or are telling lies after all?
Which one is it Amanda?
Or are you, once again, simply afraid to state your position on the bible for fear it will expose your hypocrisy?
Your position was, “I disagree.” LOL!
When I asked, “WHY?” then YOU went on a huge farking tangent about…I don’t know, I’ll have to look it up. My guess is either: Christians are mentally unstable or Jesus wasn’t historical.
But you did NOT explain why you disagreed with them. And you flat refused to talk about David Wood or C.S. Lewis or any of the DOZENS of scientists I quoted for you.
I will discuss anything with you providing it is supported with verifiable evidence.
To date you have not provided any (I stand under correction on this – we have exchanged quite a number of comments.)
Here’s some verifiable evidence you’ve never explained your perspective on Richard Dawkins:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/in-defense-of-oppression/#comment-4102
I did explain. I said I did not agree.
Can you not read or are you slipping into your ”I’m pretending to be an idiot mode” once more?
So, do you consider the bible to be historically reliable?
I asked WHY.
Multiple times.
You said, “Because violence and control are wrong!”
And I said, “WHY do you believe that?”
And you told me that was a stupid question. Lol.
You don’t have any idea why you disagree with Richard Dawkins.
And there you go. I have outlined the basics for societal growth re: evolution.
And now you are behaving like someone suffering mental instability or are simply bone ignorant.
And as you do prefer not to revisit old threads I will take your advice and not do the same.
So, we were on a new topic.
Do you consider the bible historically reliable?
I didn’t say I prefer not to visit old threads. But I understand why you don’t want to.
This is my favorite quote of yours from that one: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/in-defense-of-oppression/#comment-4112
(It says, “I have no idea why [Richard Dawkins] would say such a thing [about rape being arbitrary], and please don’t assume that he represents my opinion on the matter at all, okay?”)
That’s the issue. Right there. You have NO IDEA why Richard Dawkins believes rape is arbitrary. Dawkins believes in Darwinian Evolution, too, darling! In fact, that’s why he thinks morality is random. He can imagine a universe where people have 6 fingers and think that rape is okay. Rape just happens to be wrong because most people just happen to think so. You don’t understand what he’s saying, therefore you can’t argue against it. You’ve never explained why you disagree with Richard Dawkins because the whole thing is over your head.
But, you sure do trust him to tell you how stupid Christians are, don’t you? 🙂
So, do you think the bible is historically reliable?
Well, whenever you want to offer some reasons why Richard Dawkins believes rape is arbitrary, I’m listening!
OR if you want to summarize Alex Rosenburg’s thoughts on why morality is an “illusion,” I’d like to hear it.
But, if you need a new question, here’s one I just thought of: Have you ever deleted a comment you made here, Ark? Have you ever said something really dumb–and then realized it made you look bad–and then deleted it?
I have no idea and I don’t care.
I cannot delete comments on someone else’s blog.
Now THAT is a dumb question.
So, do you believe the bible is historically reliable?
Which is it? You don’t know and don’t care? Or you CAN’T?
Because–yes–you can delete comments that you’ve made yourself.
And I suspect that you DO know whether you’ve done so…
Have you ever made a stupid comment like, “I disagree. That’s all I need to say about that.” ?
That wasn’t a direct quote by the way. I’m just asking, have you ever said something LIKE, “That’s not my opinion, and I don’t need to say anything else.” ?
Anything like that?
And, after I called you out for saying something THAT dumb, did you go back and delete it?
Do you believe the bible is historically accurate?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
You know why I’m asking!
LOL!!!!
I thought maybe we could talk about Darrow again, since you don’t want to talk about Dawkins. But, when I searched for his name in my comments, I couldn’t find the quote I was thinking of. I found this comment:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/24/one-god-shy-of-a-picnic/#comment-3332
In this conversation, I was trying to get you to explain why Atheist lawyer Clarence Darrow was wrong for arguing that his murdering clients couldn’t help themselves? Darrow doesn’t believe in free will, although you (apparently) DO believe in free will.
In my comment–which I wrote–you were quoted saying “What those [murderers] did was an aberration. Human nature is replete with such examples. No further explanation to Darrow would be needed…”
But I can’t find the original comment. I’ve searched every key word and phrase. It’s not here any more. I wonder why?
Ark deletes his own comments?
YES!!!!!
I’m 99.999% positive! LOL!
So much for his comment earlier today, when he said (I quote) “Oh, and I sincerely appreciate that you do not censor comments, John. And I mean that.
It allows one to at least try to have meaningful dialogue and when christians like yourself go all ”fundy” as if they have been eating their bible I I can express the erudite view that you are a fucking idiot with unrestrained glee.”
I’m copying it now, so I can find it again later if he deletes that one.
LOL!
I don’t delete comments.
I don’t edit other people’s comments.
If something is missing, he deleted it himself.
I know that, of course.
But I appreciate the statement for the record.
I can see the “spam” and “trash” folders. They are empty. And I have restored comments MYSELF before, when they appear there by mistake.
The original comment is gone! 🙂
…well, at least we know why the Atheists are suspicious that the Bible was “tampered with.”
If it’s not there then ask your father, it is his blog you stupid woman.
Lol! Why would he delete a comment that makes YOU look bad?
Keep trying, Arkie. 🙂
How could I delete one of my comments on his blog, you stupid woman?
I was under the impression that whoever makes a comment can always delete their own (just not anyone else’s.) That’s how it works on Facebook.
So, if that’s not true, I was wrong.
I’m sorry!
Right!
So, moving on ….
Do you believe in the historical accuracy of the bible?
I also use blogger, and you can delete comments there.
https://support.google.com/blogger/answer/42398?hl=en
But–no–my apology about whether you deleted your comment doesn’t mean we are going to “move on” to the historical accuracy of the Bible.
How about you answer this: what is the historical evidence that Arkenaten existed?
So you obviously do not believe but are just too embarrassed to admit it. Just as I thought.
At least you are not as dumb as your old man.
Yeah–that’s it. I’m afraid of the guy who said, “Murder is wrong…no further explanation would be needed.”
I know you like to project YOUR insecurities on to other people. But, as I demonstrated to both you and JZ yesterday, I DO have reasons for my beliefs. I DO have the ability to read and understand scholarly articles. And I DO change my mind or admit that I don’t know, when necessary.
I’m not the one who avoids questions JUST because I can’t answer them. That’s you.
So, was Arkenaten a real, historic person?
You do have reasons for your beleifs? Well then, why not tell what they are. If you are not embarrassed or ashamed that is?
Uh…. I told you my reason earlier. Because it doesn’t matter. You will be an Atheist either way.
The fact that you didn’t understand that or don’t remember is proving my point.
You don’t deserve to sit up on a pedestal and demand that everyone else parade evidence in front of you. I’m not going to dance for you, while you scowl and yell, “Do better! Do better!”
You haven’t proven YOU know how to dance.
Was Arkenaten a real guy? I’d seriously never heard of him before you showed up. Did you just make up that handle?
Yes, I understood. And you prove the point that you are afraid of being revealed as either delusional and in indoctrinated or a liar.
You will dismiss willful ignorance so, seriously, what alternatives are left?
So… Arkenaten didn’t really exist?
No, Arkenaten did not really exist.
Gotcha. Thanks for answering!
So where did the name come from, and what’s with the Egyptian picture?
Did you misspell Akhenaten?
Aahh! Clever girl. You noticed . Well done.
Now ask me why I spelled it this way?
I was planning on it.
Go ahead and tell me! 🙂
Nope.
Point to me.
Now, do you think the bible is historically accurate?
LOL! You told me to ask, so that you could refuse to answer?
That’s hilarious!
Okay, Ark. Here’s the deal. I’m going to go back and find that “list” of historical characters you specifically asked about and tell you what I think about them…
…even though I’ve already answered dozens of questions…
…even though you’re going to find some excuse NOT to answer mine…
For your information, I’ll tell you what many Christians believe about each of those biblical characters and which way I’m “leaning.”
But then–no more “back and forth.”
You won’t get any more answers from me. You have to tell me WHY you believe what you believe, and demonstrate you are more than a Couch Scholar with a Google Degree.
You’ll just have to wait a minute while I find your list.
Here are the figures you asked about:
“Adam and Eve
Noah’s Ark
Moses
Virgin Birth
Resurrection of Lazarus”
There are Christians who believe Adam and Eve lived between 80,000 and 200,000 years ago–based on mitochondrial DNA and other techniques related to genome mapping. There are other Christians who believe Adam and Eve lived less than 10,000 years ago, because they think the Evolutionary Biologists are letting their anti-God bias pollute their work. (I’m leaning toward the older Adam and Eve, per Dr. Hugh Ross and Dr. Fuz Rana. But I’m not an expert in biology, so all I can do is read opinions.)
There are Christians who believe Noah’s flood covered the entire globe–all 25,000 miles around. They claim there are fossils of whales on top of mountains and large cracks in the tectonic plates which support this. But there are other Christians who recognize that the Bible’s word for “worldwide” often meant only “civilization”–but not the whole planet. Humans didn’t cover the whole planet at the time. The “world” during Noah’s day was mainly Mesopotamia. (I tend to lean toward “catastrophic, localized flood.” But, I’m not an expert in geology, so all I can do is read opinions.)
There are Christians who believe Moses was historical. Some Christians believe he was a fictional character. (I tend to lean toward “real, historical.” But I’m not a historian, so all I can do is read opinions)
Miracles like virgin births and men rising from the dead are only provable once you’ve established the Bible as a reliable source. So–I see no point in talking about those things from a historical perspective. They were one time events, and they wouldn’t leave any “evidence” other than the testimonies of the people they happened to. I think most Christians believe those things really happened. But maybe some argue those stories are fictional? (I tend to lean toward “really happened” and I’m interested by the thousands of people who claim they’ve seen visions or experienced miracles TODAY… but I’m not a textual critic or Theologian. so all I can do is read opinions.)
The trouble is: I’m only one person, and I don’t have enough time in MY ENTIRE LIFE to sit down and read everything. I have to trust other humans some times. I can’t just assume an entire chunk of people are psychotic or lying. And I don’t have time to write long-winded comments like this to people who will call ME a psycho or liar, no matter what I say. So–if you have some reason why I should doubt some portion of the Bible, feel free to share it. But it’s a fact that many, many parts of the Bible are historically accurate, and making me do all of your research doesn’t help me find the truth.
And they are wrong as the HGP has demonstrated. Notwithstanding ‘’mitochondrial eve’’ as there was never such a small bottleneck resulting in two individuals.
Check the latest research.
Collins realized this.
So. No Adam and Eve.
Next ….
The latter explanation is the correct one.
If you want to know why there are fossils on mountain tops read someone who is an expert in plate tectonics. The reason is straightforward and I have a hunch you already know the answer, don’t you?
Moses was a fictional character. I have explained before that the Pentateuch is simply geo-political myth. Archaeologists have uncovered evidence that demonstrates that the Israelite settlement in Palestine was internal and from the evidence it was relatively peaceful – no evidence of violence – battles, local wars etc. The Israelites were merely part of the Canaanites. They also adopted their god, Yahweh. ( See the Ugaritic Tablets.) Furthermore, the entire area was under Egyptian rule at the time. See the Armana letters.
Also, according to the bible the Israelites were supposed to have stayed at Kadesh Barnea for 38 years,. Not a single scrap of evidence has been uncovered to suggest this.
Try to imagine what a population the size of Houston for example (based on supposed numbers as stated in the bible) would have required in terms of infrastructure for 38 years.
If you are going to question the numbers and maybe bring etymology into this – see the Hebrew word eleph then this is going to raise an entire different set of issues on how this greatly reduced army conquered Canaan.
No archaeologist considers the biblical tale of Moses and the Exodus historical.
As we know it is not a reliable source that closes this chapter then.
Give some examples please.
No.
I don’t need you tell me to “check the latest research.” I’ll continue to search for truth with or without your encouragement–on my own time. But I’m not letting you control the conversation any more today.
You can’t just come in and start listing things as facts WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP. Things like “there was never such a small bottleneck resulting in two individuals” and “no archaeologist considers the biblical tale of Moses and the Exodus historical” didn’t come from a scholarly article. Most likely you heard them from an Atheist, quoting an Atheist, quoting an Atheist. I’m suspicious you’ve actually done any REAL “research” because you have demonstrated before that you don’t read well enough for that. (You always ask for a “summary” or for others to “rephrase the question.” Heck, you won’t even bother to summarize TILDEB’S speeches when I invite you to do so…you just assume it makes sense.)
So, I will not believe anything that any of you claim is “fact,” until you show me WHY you believe that… because you were insisting that Jesus-as-fiction was a FACT until you got taught a lesson yesterday.
Now–why do you misspell Akhenaten’s name? And, do you believe Akhenaten was a real, historic person?
Of course I got them from an atheist
you stupid ignorant woman.
More than one in fact.
Israel Finkelstein, William Devers, Ze’ev Herzog are three you may have heard of.
Now grow up.
You must have missed my questions at the bottom.
Why do you always get so testy when someone asks you a question?
No–wait–don’t get sidetracked by trying to answer that one.
Just tell me why you misspelled Akhenaten’s name. And tell me whether you believe he was a real, historic person?
Yes, Akhenaten was an historical person.
The spelling was a mistake.
I appreciate the honesty. Mistakes happen.
In the future, you could always tell people you’re making fun of the way Theists like to twist facts. 😉
Why do you like Akhenaten? What did he accomplish?
He was considered to be the first Pharaoh to establish a form of monotheism. As an atheist I recognised the irony using the moniker
Interesting! How do you know that’s really what happened? (That Akhenaten was first to establish a form of Monotheism?)
Primarily, Archaeology and Egyptology.
Archaeology and Egyptology are fields of study. They’re not facts or answer in themselves.
It’s like me saying: “I believe in God because of Theology.”
I hope you wouldn’t accept that. 🙂
So how have Archaeologists and Egyptologists demonstrated that Akhenaten established Monotheism?
They do not say he established monotheism but a form of monotheism – worship of the sun.
Are you aware of the methodology of archaeology and Egyptology or are you asking to be argumentative and are really asking a leading question?
I’m asking whether YOU’RE aware of the methodology. How did they come to believe that Akhenaten established a FORM of Monotheism? …how did they come up with that by digging in the dirt?
Yes, by ”digging in the dirt”.
I’m asking how, Ark?
What’s the methodology?
Because the idea that Monotheism came out of Polytheism isn’t settled. There are some very smart people who say Monotheism has existed as long as human civilization…and Polytheism came later.
So, how did Archaeologists determine that Akhenaten “established a form of Monotheism?”
Have you read anything about Akhenaten?
Yeah.
Have you? lol.
I actually have a theory that I know exactly which (one) article you’ve read.
So therefor you already know how they arrived at this hypothesis, don’t you? And that akes your questions disingenuous.
So why don’t you grow up, stop asking leading fucking questions and simply tell me what it is you are trying to get at?
No, I already told you I don’t KNOW how they came up with their hypothesis. And I already told you why I doubt their conclusion. I have sources which say that Monotheism has existed since the beginning of civilization, so I’m suspicious when someone says that it needed to be “established” in the 14th Century B.C.
And I’m testing to see whether you know what you’re talking about–or if you just regurgitate what you’ve heard from biased, Atheist blogs.
How do they know that Akhenaten was a real guy?
I am not regurgitating anything I have heard from religious blogs.
I am fortunate to have a fairly well stocked library.
Want to take the bet by the way?
How do you know Akhenaten was not a real guy?
A million dollars that I’m wrong?
Lol. That’s a good bet. If I had a million, I’d also bet it on the fact that I’m wrong about a LOT of stuff.
But I don’t have money to spend, so no. I want you to describe for me HOW people can possibly know that a person is really historical verses fictional?
Surely you don’t just take those claims about Akhenaten on faith???
Good. A Wise decision. For now your money is safe.
Now perhaps you might afford me a little more respect and stop behaving like a churl.
If you do not know how archaeologists arrive at the conclusions they make then you need to study before you enter such a discussion, otherwise you simply look stupid. by asking the questions in the manner in which you do.
If you already know then you have no need to ask me and by doing so are simply being disingenuous – and also making yourself look bloody stupid.
So, what is the point you are trying to make by going off on a tangent about Akhenaten?
You believe everything you do because you have put blind faith in Atheist scholars, even though you don’t understand anything they’re saying.
That was my point.
I can study on my own any time I want. I was asking YOU in order to give YOU the chance to demonstrate that you know something.
But you declined.
Never mind.
See you next time!
And if you truly believe I do then you are a bloody idiot.
That is what theists do as they do not have evidence.
It is called faith.
And the more you comment the more you demonstrate how absurdly ignorant you truly are.
Ignorant, disingenuous, indoctrinated and probably a liar.
Because I suspect you really are an atheist.
That was my point.
We’ve all heard your “point” many times. But no one is impressed. No one believes you’re anything but an angry insomniac.
You have to back SOMETHING up. Kind of like I backed up the claim that Jesus was a real person who was crucified by Pilate.
Try answering WHY you believe something every now and then. That would be a great place to start.
Also–admitting that none of us knows very much, without trusting each other. (That’s called faith.) We have to decide who we’re going to trust, and sometimes we’re going to be wrong. If you had the humility enough to admit those two things, it might change your life.
Subbing …
Yay!!!
No response, so I win.
#VictoryDance
Yes dear. You win.
Well done.
By the way, as we have demonstrable evidence that the Exodus did not happen how do you square away your faith in the character Jesus of Nazareth?
By the way, WE do not have demonstrable evidence that the Exodus did not happen. You might have heard that certain Archaeologists have evidence which they interpret to mean the Exodus didn’t happen. (And they many have that evidence! Who knows?) But, YOU don’t have demonstrable evidence, because YOU are not a good reader.
So, unless you want to tell me who they are and how they arrived at that conclusion, then there’s no reason to have the conversation with you.
I’ll study on my own time.
Lol.
What an ignoramus.
Maybe you should read something other than Christian fiction?
I truly adore the way you try to defend the indefensible.
The way you dismiss the entire archaeological community. Truly hilarious.
Smile.
Oh, I’m sure you will … eventually.
Why not start with the bible?
You see to know jack shit about this?
If that doesn’t make you an atheist I will bet it’ll kick start your deconversion.
Then read Finkelstein and Dever.
Or watch some of their videos.
You could read a bit of Josephus.
How about some good old history?You know, to get a little background on the time and area and culture?
Tacitus is good and also Edward Gibbon. Love his Decline and Fall, don’t you?
I’ve read a bit of Aquinas but I just couldn’t get into Summa Theologica. Its on my shelf maybe I should give it an other shot?
What do you think, MrsMc?
Peruse the findings of Kenyon and follow up with the data on all the other carbon datings.
By that point you will be suffering cognitive dissonance big time and will effectively be an atheist.
And while your reading the Bible, why not read the Koran too and study the basics of all comparative religions?:
Your current belief won’t have a chance in Hades!
I can almost guarantee it.
Ah, sorry, videos.
That’s what you did.
Because you don’t read well…
I’ve read Tacitus! He’s one of the historians who tells us Jesus was crucified. 🙂
Thanks for the recommendations, but be honest: you haven’t “read” those people you listed. And you’ve never read the Bible all through, either. So I’m ahead of you on both counts.
Now tell how you acquired the evidence that allows you to make the claim that I have not read the bible all through?
I asked. Have you?
As you know, I’ll admit when my guess is wrong…
But I assumed you’ll say, “I don’t read fictional stuff.” lol.
Well, in that case, yes I have.
Beginning to end??? Wow!
I guess you really do know your stuff!
Know it? Not really. I am an amateur at best.
That’s a good start, Ark… A really good start.
We’re all just amateurs. Other than tiny pieces of knowledge we can call our own, we completely depend on our fellow man to help us find the truth.
But, if you seek it honestly, the truth will set you free.
So tell me, based on what scholarly and archaeological evidence do you consider the Exodus story to be historical?
There is no compelling evidence for why I should doubt the biblical account.
Nothing written in it from a historical perspective has been disproved. Cities have been misidentified and people have been misnamed and we haven’t found everything we’d “expect” to find in the dirt (yet?). But the only people saying “We know for sure the Exodus never happened” are internet amateurs who don’t know what they’re talking about.
And this comment demonstrates why you are an indoctrinated ignoramus.
And I am so very glad your father leaves comment unmolested as this one from you, which I shall preserve, is the Peach Of Them All.
Lol, I know Ark, I know.
EVERYTHING I say is ignorant.
You’ve already decided what you believe, and you can’t even explain why.
CS has the right way to deal with you… don’t even try to reason. You may be beyond hope.
https://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/2016/10/04/because-god-really-can-make-a-donkey-talk-again/
Still trying to lure me to your blog, huh?
Are there stats and figures there? 😂
No, thank you. I prefer it if you actually stay away.
Lol.
That would be more convincing if you didn’t link to yourself…
Oh, I most definitely want you to read it… but prefer you not to comment.
Nite nite …
Yeah.
“Here’s my blog.”
“Actually, stay away!”
“No, I want you to read it…just don’t tell me when I’m wrong.”
That’s awesome.
Goodnight, Ark. Make sure it’s an extra big sleeping pill tonight, because it’s going to take more and more drugs to convince you that you’re intellectual and every Christian in the world is delusional…
I never claim to be an intellectual.
But every one that really believes they are Christian most certainly are delusional.
That’s almost a mathematical certainty.
Mathematicians are in the business of deciding who’s delusional now? Cool!
There’s a new post up–featuring your analogy!
See you there!
No thanks …
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa
Read it.
Don’t comment.
*sniff*
*giggle*
Found this and ordered William Dever’s recommended book. I’ll read it and see about helping Ahk give you some answers to the questions you’re posing. http://www.fsmitha.com/review/r-dever.html
Sounds interesting!
You know I’ll take level headed truth whenever I can get it.
There is a trigger warning of sorts. Apparently, it’s going to be a difficult read for fundamentalists. I’m terrified.
You read Tacitus? I am impressed. What did you read?
Oh, and what page in Tacitus is the reference to Jesus?
“Well stocked library” is my new reply every time I’m asked to back up a claim.
Lol.
In his case (if it’s true), the statement is along the same lines as when I say “Emmi likes books.”
She’s 10 months old.
She likes to chew on them.
I wonder if he’s got “Der Ursprung der Gottesidee” in his library?
Or even “Der Green Eggs and Ham”
He’s either going to bed now (finally), or he’s furiously looking up “Exodus” on every Atheist site he can find.
You don’t think he’ll consult his “well stocked library”?
YouTube video library, maybe…
Oh, and I’ll bet you a million dollars you are wrong.
Want to take the bet?
Are you googling or subbing? 🙂
Was Arkenaten a real person?
…oh…sorry…I had to watch the second half of the big game…
What was the question again?
It’s amazingly, painfully stupid.
I wonder if the big-wig talking heads (like Dawkins and Sam Harris) are aware if just how shallow and uneducated their foot soldiers are.
I’m willing to admit there are many Christians who don’t know WHY they believe as they do. Would the New Atheist priests be willing to admit the same about their loyal congregation of ignorant Atheists?
The big wigs are no different.
WHERE’S YOUR EVIDENCE, LIAR?!?!?!
Seriously, though, I bet I can find at least one Atheist who says something to the effect of, “Most internet Atheists have no idea why they are Atheists.”
Like Michael Ruse: “I think that P. Z. Myers and his crew are as disastrous to the evolution side – and people like me need to say this – as Ben Stein is disastrous to the Creationism side – and the Creationists should have had the guts to say so. I have written elsewhere that The God Delusion makes me ashamed to be an atheist. Let me say that again. Let me say also that I am proud to be the focus of the invective of the new atheists. They are a bloody disaster and I want to be on the front line of those who say so.”
You get 50 bucks if he answers your question. It’ll be worth it to watch the hammer come down afterward.
Oh, and I am learning from you and your father all the time …. trust me on that score.
Well…for the record…I do believe the Bible is historically accurate.
I’m willing to discuss whatever errors are troubling the heathen but they’re going to have to post something other than ‘you’re a liar’.
You believe the Bible is accurate?!?!
SEEEEEEERIOUSLY?!?!
Now we can’t be friends, you pinhead.
I just want to know which historical fact is troubling him. The claim,”Nothing in the Bible is correct”, is easy to refute.
…of course, I’m leaving the door open for another rant about fictional Moses. I don’t have to respond to that anymore since he’s surrendered on this post.
He surrendered fictional Moses?
Or do you mean fictional Jesus?
To be honest–I hope we get to talk about Jesus again, since THAT WAS THE POINT OF THIS POST.
But, if they’re smart, they won’t bring up specific evidences any more.
Fictional Pentateuch is Ark’s fortress of reason. If you don’t admit that the Bible is mythical, he’ll throw the Pentateuch at you. Guaranteed.
Fictional Jesus is ALL the atheists. Until you ask them to cite an actual expert. Then, they retreat (like JZ) to the much more conservative position of ‘Jesus as described in the New Testament’. Which is, as you know, like saying, “There are no secular sources that describe Jesus in non-secular terms.”
Yes….I know very well that sometimes it takes repeating yourself over and over and over, until the comment section reaches 200+ posts, and the stubborn Atheists STILL won’t admit, “Oops, I was wrong about that.”
So, if they are gullible enough to believe the modern conspiracy theory that Jesus wasn’t historical, it’s hard to trust their scholarship. Bart Ehrman called doubting Jesus’ existence the “myth of the mythical Jesus”–and he’s a Secular Humanist!
I can’t wait to see what sources they use to argue that Moses was fictional…. I hope it’s as hysterical as that one time (two days ago) when JZ’s source actually argued the opposite of his point.
LOL!
@Ark
Once does NOT have to believe in a young earth to believe a literal account of Genesis
You are a Biblical illiterate, apparently.
Now, I shall return to beating my toes with a hammer, as it is more useful than talking to you.
Peace
I am perfectly aware of the Christian position, Wally, thanks.
And aware of your position as well.
Apparently my position is whatever you say it is lol
😑
Actually, your position is what you say it is.
Although you seem to fluctuate somewhat on certain occasions.
@Wally.
Team facts: 1
Team profanity:0
You think the bastards that rip off millions of people every day give a shit about your hurt feelings over a couple of swear words, Wally?
Not a chance , mate, and they will milk you dry while you are stupid enough to continue to fall for it.
Ark
Do you actually even know what this post is about? Or are you just speed pasting your standard stuff here?
Of course, Wally.
John is wondering how such a screwed up religion as Christianity has managed to survive for so long with the tacit implication there must be truth in their somewhere.(sic)
I responded by stating that one of the reasons is because it is Big Business.
Business that sadly preys (prays?) on unfortunate, credulous people like you, Wally.
I also pointed out that – thank the gods – religions will eventually fade away as we move inexorably toward a humanist secular society.
Something to look forward to right?
Ah I see
So…you have some sort of data to back your assertion that Christian churches AS A WHOLE exist as nothing more than money making endeavors? You know, some of those pesky peer reviewed studies or something. Because oddly, I don’t recall seeing any such researchers in any of the many churches I have been in, or worked with, or visited in all of my years.
Or, did some guy on a website just tell you that?
Odd
The stats generally derive from PEW
or a government organisation.
Hell, its your farking country, why don’t you know?
You can check yourself if you are of a mind.
I suppose your particular church isn’t featured because it is one of those that are already in decline and so researchers simply do a mean average.
What ever the figures, your religion is still stealing from the nation and from the people it is supposed to be saving (sic).
Did you see that Walmart donates 1.75 billion, and it pays taxes.
How much tax does your church pay, Wally?
Sweet Fark All.
We can all be grateful that religion’s days are numbered.
Lol well done
Put the burden of proving YOUR assertion on me…..nice work
Ba ha ha
Science.
What else do you need to know, Wally?
Oh…I thought it was particles John
My bad
Science.
And stats.
Stats are important.
Oh
Well
Now I know
Do the research!
And if your research conflicts with Ark, then do some more research.
Also, history.
It was merely a throwaway line, Wally.
If you don’t accept the figure so what?
You don’t accept that the bible is simply historical fiction.
This doesn’t change the fact that it is in any way whatsoever..
That your churches do not pay any tax, irrespective of the amount, and it is certainly at least in the hundreds of millions, is simply disgusting, especially when you consider the amount of underprivileged people there are.
But as I wrote, that situation will eventually change and religion is quietly but firmly ushered out the door.
I suspect your own particular church will be one of the churches that will close sooner rather than later, based on your own statements about your preacher having to ”moonlight”.
Shame your god can’t instruct some of the richer churches to help out, eh, Wally?
Miserable greedy sods that they are.
Funny how your assertions become throw away lines when they are challenged
Odd
Oh…and never said I meant my church. We are vibrant, and healthy, and growing quite nicely thanks very much.
Learn to read, it would make things go much smoother around here.
Oh, well good for you. I took hold of the wrong end of the stick and beat about the burning bush with it.
So, if your preacher/pastor/priest or whatever you call him has to moonlight is it because you lot are cheapskates, then?
My assertions are based on info gleaned from sites/organisations that produce these statistics.
As I said, who really gives a shit about the exact figures? The fact remains your religion steals from the people it is supposed to serve because of an unjust/ immoral/faulty legal system.
Now, the Christian thing to do is to instigate a movement to have that disgusting law removed from the statute books and get churches to pay their bloody taxes.
You pay taxes so why the frak doesn’t your church?
All academical in the long run of course, but in the mean time you and every other Christian are tacitly sanctioning theft. Theft in the billions.
It’s simple, Wally.
If pastors are making a living, it’s because they’re thieves and extortionists.
And if they’re NOT making much money, it’s because Christians are cheapskates.
Also:Christianity only exists because of all the money being made…except for all the pastors and missionaries who aren’t making any money because of cheapskates like you and me.
Got it? Having fun on Ark’s Merry-Go-Round? (Weeeeeeeee!)
Yeah…Weeeeeeeeeeeeee is right. These guys make my head hurt LOL with all the mental gymnastics
When they say they don’t have “a belief,” they’re technically right. There’s no position; no attempt to offer something constructive. They only want to disagree with religious people….and that sometimes requires talking in circles.
I’ve seen it when they argue that the same religion doesn’t appear in any two cultures in the world….but then they argue that Jesus never said anything “new,” because many religions preached his message before him. (Uh, which is it?)
I’ve seen it when they argue that Christians “indoctrinate” children…but then they recommend that all of us get “educated,” and can’t describe the difference.
I’ve seen it when they tell my dad he’s a terrible comedian and then claim they’re laughing at his stupidity. (Okay, so that’s a smaller example. But it’s the same idea.) 🙂
Try to get them to commit to a position. Try to get them to make a statement. That’s when they all shut down.
This all reminds me of a song
https://youtu.be/kK62tfoCmuQ
Haha!
I was thinking of this one:
Here’s mine:
Ha..except the atheists would never like that one…it’s rather Biblical LOL
Thankfully, we have brilliant thinkers like Richard Dawkins and the other New Atheists to lead the way to a much better future.
And they’re not making any money! Just spreading the clear, hard truth, out of the goodness of their hearts.
Ha!
We know first hand how missions are a cash cow.
Throughout history there has been big bucks in taking the gospel to remote tribes.
That also explains all the preachers I know who have to word a secular job just to make a living wage.
Yes…
Also the Christians on this blog have proven to be drones who don’t allow anyone to question their beliefs.
The Atheists, on the other hand, are obviously free-thinkers.
Subbing…
Yes, Jim Eliot comes to mind. He died with his four friends if I recall in Ecuador, bringing the word of God to the Auca’s, recounted by Jim’s widow Elisabeth Eliot in her book ‘Through the gates of splendor.’ Yep. they gave their lives to earn 35 cents cash.
Oh the narrow minded, myopic, and selfish ignorance of they who despise the true and only living God.
Among other reasons, it make an awful lot of money.
Not least from the tax exemptions.
Although I suppose one could say from this perspective that religion actually steals from the very people it claims to try to save.
Fortunately, Christianity is losing its stranglehold and the ”Nones’ for example are considered one of the fastest growing non-religious group in the US.
While many people are apparently becoming christian in former communist countries such as China, the more developed a country sees a pattern of less reliance on religion.
This would suggest that there is a definite cycle involved. And of course the freedom to proselytize in countries that were formerly closed to Christian missionaries.
Of course, such missionary work is considerably more hazardous in staunch Muslim countries, where previous tolerance that was extended to Christians seems t have been withdrawn and openly flaunting one’s Christianity is in some cases tantamount to painting a target on one’s back.
It is ironic that only in secular democracies will you find a smorgasbord of religions all vying for your ”soul” ( read: hard earned cash).
So if we take into consideration the nature of how people react to religion, especially once they are free from such insidious practices as childhood indoctrination, the gradual shift is almost always away from religion.
This trend may see reversals from time to time but the overall trend is toward secular humanism.
And why not? After all, religion survives largely by instilling a totally irrational fear-based doctrine and in the long run empty threats are just that – empty.
Irrational fear, empty threats and tax exemptions have kept Christianity alive for thousands of years.
Hard to argue with that.
True. But, as I wrote, the stranglehold is slowly diminishing.
Not going to happen over night. But is is happening.
Your historically irrefutable comments will certainly speed the arrival of godless utopia!
Indeed they will. Not likely in our lifetimes, so you will plenty of opportunities to try to help indoctrinate another generation ( your grand kids) – and I strongly suggest you do if you want to ensure your make believe god-man has a place at your table.
However, as Agent Smith once remarked :
”It is the sound of inevitability.”
Keep praying, John. You are going to need them more than ever in the coming years.
Preach it, Ark.
We’ll see if people are quoting you in 20 years.
Of course, people will need to start quoting you now…
20 years! Good grief, it will take considerably longer that before your silly religion fades away.
The point you are afraid to confront is that it is fading away.
I realise this has to stick in your craw or whatever it is you lot say over in the US of Eh? but facts are facts.
There are inevitably going to be ups and downs but the move is inexorably toward a secular humanist global society.
Let’s face it , John, religion has not debunked a single scientific theory.
Yet science has debunked pretty much every single religious one.
Nobody is going to heaven because of a bit of barbaric bloodletting.
Only a moron believes that. Or some unfortunate indoctrinated kid.
Religion is stagnant. There is nowhere for it to go but down.
Islam is still growing but it is relatively young. Give it time.
But the book is written, John
It’s not likely the Church will come up with a new bible now is it?
”Ooops, sorry you lot we made a great big stuff up. We have a better bible for you!”
Er… no, the church already decided.
And I am very, very glad they did because the text your overlords claim to be the be- all and end-all of … well pretty much everything, is nothing but a humongous crock of hilarious shit.
Sometime down the line a future generation of Branyan ( or whatever branch your grandkids are called) will look back and ask:
”Great great great grandpa John believed in what? ”.
Then spend the next five minutes shaking their head and laughing at your credulity.
Preaching is about editing.
Short, easy to understand thoughts.
These diatribes make you seem crazy.
You’re going to have difficulty amassing disciples.
That’s not what the stats so , John.
You are merely pissing in the wind – and blow-back is already happening.
BY the way, did you do the Jesus on a Rubber Cross gag yet?
Stats.
I totally forgot about the stats!
Another excellent point, Ark!
Stats.
Also science.
It’s short for Statistics.
According to my dictionary anyway.
I was wondering, what do you think would happen if you did not teach/indoctrinate your family with any sort of religion whatsoever?
If left to their own devices would the grand-kids still become Christian do you think?
Gosh.
You don’t have stats to answer that question?
What question is that, John?
Religion will die quicker if you can remember your own questions. Asking me about a question you just asked makes you seem stupid.
Yes, well I was listening to that video on my blog again by Matt Dillahunty explaining how Christians lie about Hell.
You should pop over and listen to it. 30 minutes well spent, I assure you.
I would ne interested in your take on what he says – he was a fundamentalist Baptist for 25 years.
Anyway, I saw the ”light flash” and clicked the drop down.
In fact I am sure they probably do have statistics of what kids will do if they are not overly influenced by family and friends.
I am pretty sure we know the answer to that one eh, John?
I could do the research but you wouldn’t accept it.
Besides, it is already happening ads I have explained.
Another thing you should do is stop telling people to do their own research. Religion will die quicker when you offer us mindless drones an alternative belief.
And forgetting your own question makes you look stupid. Stupidity lessens your credibility.
Why do you need an alternative belief?
If the surgeon removes a cancerous growth do you insist he replace it with something else?
When an atheist removes a person’s concept of reality, it needs to be replaced with something.
Look up the stats if you don’t believe me.
Sadly, your version of reality is simply delusion, John.
That’s a medical fact, John.
That’s why Ark is an Atheist.
Someone told him religious belief is a delusion (that’s a fact!), so he stopped believing in purpose.
That’s the impression he’s given, but I’m sure there is hard, statistics that he considered. He just lost them while watching a Dillahunty video.
Oh, fear not, I never really believed in all the superstitious crap.
Only a moron or someone indoctrinated would accept all that nonsense.
And of course, I was never indoctrinated.
So it was merely a process of exercising critical thought.
Atheism was the inevitable outcome.
Never indoctrinated.
Good job!
Impervious to all ideas outside your own!
Unteachable!
Actually, no. If you have something you believe worth teaching then please, teach.
However, the biblical claims that Christianity is largely built upon are simply erroneous.
You would know this ( if you don’t already suspect it) if you suspended your blind acceptance for a short while and read the bible with an open, honest mind and followed up with unfettered research.
You’re trying to indoctrinate me!
Send me the stats!
Subbing ….
I know, Ark. You consider it a badge of honor to not believe in God. Before hearing any evidence, you first weed out the “religiously indoctrinated” people, and will only listen to those who already agree with you…
You presuppose that belief in the supernatural can’t coexist with critical thought.
Everyone already knows that. But it’s nice of you to lay it out.
If you don’t want to believe, no one can make you… kind of like the kid who crosses his arms and refuses to have fun at the birthday party.
Congratulations.
You have to present any evidence. But I am always willing to listen to any you have.
You can start with:
Adam and Eve
Noah’s Ark
Moses
Virgin Birth
Resurrection of Lazarus.
Take it away …
I know, you’re going to be chanting you didn’t get enough evidence forever in Hell…
But all of us “indoctrinated” people will still clearly remember supplying you with lots.
Well, let’s have another go.
Address the topics I listed please.
Say, “Pretty, pretty please, with jelly on top.”
Any particular flavour of Jelly?
Spoiler: even if you say it, I’m not doing your research for you. I’ve done that plenty.
You’ve sidetracked the discussion of this post, which is hilarious because it’s about JESUS–the person you were dying to talk about! 🙂
And, I’m sick of being your little reference manual when you never answer any questions in return.
So, please, with jelly on top, just go back to “subbing” me. 🙂
Okay … If you don’t know, I’ll have to accept you are just a n indoctrinated sunbeam for Yeshua.
I know. That’s what I said you’d do. You’ll believe that no matter what.
Thanks again for saying so!
History supports everything in the Bible.
Just look it up!
You’re a liar , John.
Statistics do not support that claim.
I doubt you are worth a statisticians trouble but the posts on your bog certainly do support the claim.
And we both agree that it is best to follow where the evidence leads, yes?
Yes! Follow the evidence!
Post the evidence that I am a liar!
Liar.
That’s not a lie!
That’s historical fact!
Really? Then perhaps you are not a liar but simply delusional.
Which one is it, John?
It’s not delusional to accept historical fact.
You have not supported your claim that I am a liar.
You are not making godlessness look appealing. You still seem crazy.
Subbing ….
The white flag.
Excellent!
The reason I never censor comments here is because it is important to let ideas stand on their own merit. Your wisdom will be preserved here. Please send your brethren over so that they can see how you schooled the theists today!
And please remember that nobody owns the truth. You are free to abandon the worthlessness of atheism at any time. A question worth thinking about is this:
When one idea proves inferior to another idea, why not ditch the bad idea in favor of the good one?
Yet you are still a Christian, and that is a dreadful idea.
Oh, and I sincerely appreciate that you do not censor comments, John. And I mean that.
It allows one to at least try to have meaningful dialogue and when christians like yourself go all ”fundy” as if they have been eating their bible I I can express the erudite view that you are a fucking idiot with unrestrained glee.
Good one, JB.
All of those things are supported by historical and statistical evidences.
Look it up if you don’t believe me.
You’re fucking kidding me? Wow! Amazing!
Is that why Ken Ham built his big arsed boat in Kentucky?
Phew.
I’m not sure you had time to look it up?
Lazy intellectualism again?
Ken Hamm built a boat in Kentucky.
We agree about that.
Keep me straight is that a throwaway line or did you mean it and come prepared to support it?
Wally!
You’re embarrassing yourself.
Statistics.
SCIENCE!
How can you be so dense?
Well, John, it’s easy to be dense when one is an indoctrinated fundie pinhead you know
I swear I don’t remember the study that was done on me, or anybody I know, that determined we were actually medically delusional though. My delusion must be keeping me from remembering!
You need the indoctrination of the godless.
But who will teach me?
Nobody!
You just arrive at perfect truth on your own.
Cool
Science.
What, you seriously doubt that it is a fact?
Yes, I do
Well you believe that the character Jesus Christ rose from the dead. You also believe in a literal (Christian ) hell and also Young Earth Creationism.
And even John, as much of a wacko job that he is, doesn’t believe that!
So yes, just from these examples you most certainly are delusional.
Look up the definition in a medical journal or simply a dictionary.
I’d do it for you but you won’t believe me.
And that’s because you are delusional.
Actually, Ark…
JB doesn’t have an official position on the age of the earth.
He thinks Wacko Wally could be correct.
Fire away! 😉
Fire away what?
That your old man is delusional?
That’s news?
Good start. But you can do better….
What meds should he be on?
I dunno? What ones are you taking?
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors?
Keep going!
Keep going!
Funny you said that mrsmcmommy. I have actually never stated an “official” position on that whole thing myself, although I lean towards young. Could be wrong and not have to chuck it all. Honestly still fleshing that one out. But, Ark has to say that for the sheer effect of it.
I like the name. Names seem to be popular here. I may adopt it, as it rings rather nicely.
Can’t really change to Wacko Wally officially, as some of my readers might be alarmed LOL
Just a wacko for Jesus here.
It’s probably a topic for another day, but I’m interested in the idea that the Theory of Relativity could allow the Earth to be BOTH young and old, depending on whose perspective you look from.
But it’s not something that keeps me up at night. 🙂 I like listening to smart people debate about it…
Yeah me too!
😊
Delusional: Noun- The state of refusing t0 believe the magnificent pontifications of the all so great stone headed god….JUST BECAUSE HE SAID SO
Guess I must be then.
It’s a medical fact that photographers are psychotic.
I did not know that. If I didn’t have people to tell me things, I would be clueless.
He was just THAT good at spinning a yarn, and THAT good at making sure his disciples kept up the conspiracy, complete with martyr’s deaths for added legitimacy.
@jb
Well then no so weird after all. It’s more than a story. Brings to mind something similar you may appreciate.
https://thenakedtruth2.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/the-life-of-a-hobo/
Thanks for that! Similar sentiments arrived at independently. It’s interesting how the truth has a way of popping up again and again.
Yesiree.
And to your post further. Imagine a group of people willing to perpetuate a ‘lie’ at the expense of their own lives.
Even a fool would say no thanks.