One of my readers wrote a disclaimer for me that started with:
“…the following posts contain no respect for what is true.”
The person writing the disclaimer didn’t bother to cite references for that claim.
But I’m willing to let people say whatever they want to say!
I’ve got a big heart and an open mind!
I’m committed to offering alternative views.
Godless, pagan, atheist views are welcome.
Nothing highlights the reasonableness of Christianity like atheist comments.
So I’m featuring some of my favorite heathens.
Meet my current cast of internet trolls.
** VULGAR WORD WARNING **
(Sometimes heathen attempt to frighten Christians with 4-letter words.)
In alphabetical order:
Arkenaten
(aka. “Ark” or “Ark Garfunkle”)
Misspelling the name of an Egyptian pharaoh, Ark is convinced that god is a man-made construct and nothing (absolutely NOTHING) in the Bible is true. Jesus of Nazareth is a myth. Ark likes to post links to articles he can’t explain.
– Link
Primary complaint with Hitler: his facial hair.
– LINK
That’s how true intellectuals make use of the ‘last word’.
-Link
He wants an explanation of something he says has ‘no verifiable evidence’. Brilliant!
– Link
There is no evidence for Christianity. Just take Ark’s word for it.
Moving on.
Alphabetically, the next Heathen All-Star is:
Carmen
(aka. “Cheerleader” or “Baby Bird”)
Carmen’s role in conversations is encouraging the other atheists. She lets them know they’re doing a great job. She assures the other heathen that they’re more intelligent, rational, compassionate and sane than theists. You’ll see Carmen’s contributions scattered throughout this post.
When she engages me directly, it usually looks like this.
See if you can spot a smidgeon of actual substance in any of her offerings:
-LINK
Keep your eyes open for more of Carmen’s insightful commentary later on!
Next up:
John Zande
(aka. “JZ” or “Windbag”)
JZ is a bulldog. He will continue to argue his points long after they have been proven wrong. Even when he doesn’t have a point he’ll go ahead and comment. He seems to believe he is the only person alive who understands how to use Google.
– Link
Yes. I always wear my “I Love Genocide” T-Shirt at family functions.
– Link
An atheist response to news about a terminally ill child. Sweet, huh?
-Link
And guess who tells us what’s ‘rational’ and ‘irrational’…John Zande!
This was one of JZ’s most spectacular implosions.
He never seemed to realize that he lost the argument:
THEN…there was this page from the Oxford Classical Dictionary:
AND JZ responded with typical maturity and open mindedness:
-Link
It’s a lot to expect a guy to recognize the source that HE quoted first.
That’s enough JZ for now.
That’s probably enough JZ for the rest of our lives.
We need to keep moving.
Up next, the incomparable:
KIA
(aka. ‘Pastor Mike’ or ‘Beta Mike’ or ‘Beta’)
KIA was once a Christian so he has a profound understanding of the problems with theism. He admits to being a ‘youth pastor’ but insists he was never a ‘pastor’. While he is no longer a Christian, he isn’t an atheist either. He is so enlightened, even HE doesn’t know what he is. UPDATE: KIA earned his own special page here for being extra weird and creepy!
– Link
Then, on his own blog, he wrote this:
– Link
The worst part about this is having my ‘outdated joke book’ exposed.
KIA likes to link from my blog to his blog in order to criticize my views.
Nothing wrong with that.
I’m not above criticism.
I did respond.
I can’t prove it though.
When you click the link to find out about my ‘double-mindedness’, you see:
KIA regularly ‘purges’ pages in his blog.
That’s part of the reason I’ve resorted to screen shots.
– LINK
Right. It’s dishonest when I write about my personal belief in God. I should write in non-specific terms about ‘god’ to avoid making any clear, philosophical statements.
– Link
KIA has no philosophy…then explains his philosophy on the nature of Christianity.
And then KIA had his feelings hurt by another commenter.
-Link
The guy who left Christianity is shaming someone for not being Christian. Brilliant!
Impressed?
Wait until you meet:
Tildeb
(aka. Dear Leader)
The hallmark of Tildeb is how he abhors totalitarianism. Everyone else should abhor it too! Or else! He is the arbiter of truth and knowledge. He knows everything about ‘reality’. Evolution explains EVERY aspect of reality and anyone who doesn’t believe that is a twit.
– Link
Because unborn people aren’t actual people. I asked, “Can I kill my teenager as a ‘reproductive preference’?” Oddly, there was no response.
One time, I suggested that the universe displays evidence for ‘wisdom’.
It seems to me that wisdom is like a ‘signal’ being transmitted throughout creation:
Dear Leader’s reply is typical of someone who doesn’t actually read comments:
-Link
How do scientists ‘link’ evidence to a thesis? Only Tildeb knows for sure…
But this is my favorite comment from Tildeb.
It demonstrates why he has earned the nickname ‘Dear Leader’.
-Link
2 Important things here:
Deducing things from what we encounter every day is not good science.
Physics today assures us that the present has not been caused.
Please!
Please!
If you see the rationality in any heathen comments, go follow their blogs.
Do not stay in my deluded blog space another minute.
Life is too short to stay steeping in my stupidity!
144 Responses
By the way, mandy. Why don’t you ever talk about your husband, the father of your three children, on your blog?
Just saw this. I’m honored to get even a dishonorable ‘honorable mention’. Although I don’t think I rate even JV in company with some of these folks. Hopefully there will be some of your readers who will visit my blog for what Paul Harvey called ‘the rest of the story’. But thx again for the mention
OMGoodness, John! I don’t know how you get anything done, spending so much time interacting with all these people. You have far, far more patience than I do, for sure. Keep up the good work, though it sure seems you are casting your pearls before swine.
Oh, this made my day.
That I warrant even a mention on such an esteemed, dedicated post is truly heartwarming.
I can imagine how much effort and time this post must have taken you to put together, John. Truly. And the screenshots as well?
Nice touch! Just in case KIA tries to deny anything, right? We all know what a slippery devil (sic) he is, what with him erasing all his posts every few months or so. Good one, JB. Very astute.
Yet again, your determination to demonstrate to your 15,000 plus subscribers just how dedicated a Christian you are is commendable.
Really, my mum is a devout Christian and she would never consider going to such lengths to show the world how wrong and sinful this little bunch of heathens are.
I never realised how our little group were living Rent Free in the Branyon Head space. And although there was a fair amount of empty space to begin with, that we now occupy quite a bit of it, it seems, I consider an honour.
Also, that you are on your knees every night praying for our souls and during the day thinking of delicious ways to write humiliating blog posts is just so commendable.
Your local evangelical creationist pastor/priest/ minister/philanderer/ must be so proud of you.
It is at times like this that I wonder what the biblical character, the Lake Tiberius Pedestrian, might say if he read your blog and considered the humble(sic) way in which you approached your version of Christianity.
I don’t know the Aramaic for the phrase: ”Branyon, you are a Dickhead ” but I’ll bet it would be close.
John, are you moderating comments now?
Seems I have a comment awaiting “Moderation”
It was the links, JZ.
All better. 🙂
Calm down, Windbag.
You put multiple links in the quote. It automatically goes to moderation.
God forbid any of your genius goes unpublished!
You fool, John. Your faith in imaginary constructs such as sarcasm and context can’t hide the truth of your support of slavery and genocide. It’s right there in print! Do not question the wisdom of john zande. His ability to cherry pick is leaps and bounds beyond your meager potential.
I must say I’m intrigued by your usage of “whoosh.” Could it be a parodical mirror of the Hebrew term “selah?” Is it representing the letting out of a breath, instead of the taking in, designed to portray the antithetical nature of john zande against your holy book? That’s so brilliant that it must’ve come from an atheist rather than you. I didn’t know you plagiarized from anyone other than your daughter, John.
-whoosh
Thanks for commenting, John Blande!
John Branyan is doing a show tonight, but I CAN’T WAIT for him to meet you! 🙂 🙂 🙂
JB, interesting to see that you have the same IP address as John Branyan.
John Blande? The bland alter ego of John Zande?
Wait–CQW???
I mistook the hyphen before John Blande’s name for a tilde accent, and thought he was YOU. But if it’s not you…and if JB is out of town right now…then…
There can be no other explanation except that Blande is the legit name of a real Atheist who is going to teach us a lot of important things very soon! In roughly 2.5 hours. (Just a hunch.)
He is the brand name. I am the bland name. I could never aspire to be as great as he, but I hope that my simple intellect may translate his great thoughts into bite-sized pieces for your minds to digest. Communication is key.
Thoroughly confused…. Your carefully edited extracts don’t serve you well.
As morally reprehensible as it is, your daughter, Amanda, supports slavery
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
And your response… You, too, support slavery
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/JBB_zpslfcgumno.png
So, I’m curious, what point were trying to prove?
Are you trying to suggest I’m wrong in finding the trafficking in human beings morally reprehensible?
No.
I’m suggesting you’re a nitwit for suggesting that I support slavery and genocide.
Whooosh!
So, your daughter, Amanda, supports slavery, but you don’t… despite your words which contradict you.
Okay, got it.
Thanks.
Notice that I posted links to the comments so it would be possible to see them in context? I don’t expect you to do that. It would require integrity.
You keep insisting that I support slavery. How do you expect this to turn out? You think you’re going to blow the lid off my human trafficking ring? You think you’re going to expose my nefarious plan to get slavery written into the Constitution?
We’ve been through this already. It ended badly for you. It always ends badly for you, Windbag.
Go back and search our previous conversations on slavery and then decide if you want to flame-out again.
I know you don’t support slavery. Evidently you’re not too good on spotting return sarcasm. In fact, you admitted your bible (your god, Yhwh) is morally reprehensible for sanctioning it, stating that evolved societal norms are how we lifted the human condition from such barbarity… no god required.
We actually made progress that day.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/John%20BBBB_zpsuahcyhkf.png
Your daughter, however, does support slavery, and killing gays… and I salute her honesty. She doesn’t dance around awkward subjects like you
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
Right.
She’s pro-slavery.
Here we go, Windbag.
From a naturalism point of view, what is wrong with slavery?
But you already know the answer, John Branyan….
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/John%20BBBB_zpsuahcyhkf.png
Not the naturalism / Atheism answer.
You’ve given the answer… No god required.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/John%20BBBB_zpsuahcyhkf.png
Yes. God is required.
Otherwise, slavery is just fine.
Rebuttal is your responsibility.
He might not be notified that I commented here, but you can show The Windbag this quote. (I’m still not done talking to him about IP Addresses, and I don’t want to distract him.)
President of the American Atheists, David Silverman:
“There is no objective moral standard. We are responsible for our own actions…” and “The hard answer is [each moral decision] is a matter of opinion.”
He knows that already.
He’s too gutless to say it.
I know. His ego took a hit with this post (which was the point), and now both he and KIA think they’re giving you a taste of your own medicine. While KIA thinks it’s “my medicine” to ask probing sexual questions, the Windbag thinks his two, measly screenshots will cast doubt on your credibility.
Of course, he didn’t include a link to the original conversation, whereas you DID include links so people could go read everything in context.
The conversation with JZ about slavery started here:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/why-should-i-be-nice-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1385
He’s a coward.
He won’t confess that he has no reason to oppose slavery other than personal opinion.
Doesn’t matter. Everyone with a brain knows what’s going on.
This one may be too many words for JZ to understand. But it’s the most clearly I’ve seen it explained by an Atheist (Julian Baggini):
“If there is no single moral authority, we have to in some sense ‘create’ values for ourselves… that means that moral claims are not true or false in the same way as factual claims are… moral claims are judgments [that] it is always possible for someone to disagree with…you may disagree with me but you cannot say I have made a factual error.”
So….even if you and I actually “supported” slavery–even if we were double-speaking liars, cheats, and swindolers–the only way to argue that we’ve made a factual error is if there’s a God. JZ has spent all of this time proving that he really, really has a strong opinion that slavery is wrong, despite the fact that he has to wear his Christian hat to do so. (Friedrich Nietzche said that giving up God means one “deprives himself of the right to Christian morality.” So, I guess that makes JZ a thief.) 🙂
He’s just appalled by your pro-slavery stance. He can’t get past it. He’s toast.
… So of course he’s going to keep saying stuff.
That’s why we love JZ!
Whoosh.
Whoosh.
Whoosh. 🙂
Not at all…. There you go lying again.
I’ve told you repeatedly: enlightened self-interest.
No, no god required, just evolving human societal norms… as you have already admitted to be the case.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/John%20BBBB_zpsuahcyhkf.png
Right.
Slavery is fine.
Murder of homosexuals is also fine.
You too afraid to say it?
I don’t think it’s fine.
Your daughter, Amanda, however does
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
No. She doesn’t.
Quit hiding behind her, coward.
Why don’t you think slavery is fine?
She doesn’t?
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
Why don’t you think slavery is fine?
Last time.
How many times do you want me to say it?
Enlightened self-interest.
Enlightened self-interest.
Enlightened self-interest.
I wouldn’t want to be a slave.
I can emphaise with slaves.
Evidently, your daughter, Amanda, doesn’t have that human skill.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
Great!
Why should other people live by your enlightened self interest?
You tell me, John Branyan… You do, after all
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/John%20BBBB_zpsuahcyhkf.png
LOL!!!!!
Stubborn, stubborn. 🙂
The thing you’re unable to bring yourself to say:
“Those who doubt the effect of religion on morality should seriously ask the question: Just what are the immutable moral laws of secularism? Be prepared to answer, if you are honest, that such laws simply do not exist!” –John Steinrucken, Atheist.
Anything goes, JZ! Unless we all wear our religious hats (permanently), you’ve got NO WAY to tell someone slavery is “bad.”
Why are you even talking on thnis subject?
We know your opinion.
You support slavery because the bible says so.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
I need you to post that picture a half dozen more times… maybe it will eventually, magically say what you think it does.
But, I wasn’t trying to give you my opinion. I was giving you John Steinrucken’s. There are LOTS of Atheists who understand and own that the word “morality” loses all of its power when you strip away the God concept.
No, that was your opinion.
The thread is there linked. Anyone can go read, and see how long it took for you to finally admit to it.
But like I said then, I admire your honesty. Few Christians are willing to go that far, to stick by the bible so completely. That took courage.
Personally, I think it’s a horrible position to hold, but a courageous one, nonetheless.
Your ideas about courage and “horrible positions” are just illusions.
“In an important sense, ethics as we understand it is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us to co-operate… Ethical codes work because they drive us to go against our selfish day to day impulses in favour of long-term group survival and harmony… Furthermore, the way our biology forces our ends is by making us think that there is an objective, higher code to which we are all subject… ethics is a shared illusion of the human race.” -Michael Ruse, Atheist (obviously)
No, you supporting IS a horrible position to hold.
To your credit, though, you are only adhering to the commands detailed in the bible.
“Consider the claim we moral realists are making. We generally claim there are invisible properties in the world not detectable by our usual tools of science, properties of an entirely different sort than the usual ‘is’ facts of science. These are mysterious ‘ought’ facts, and there is great disagreement about what they are or how we know them. Now that is a strong claim. An extraordinary claim, we might say. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, right?” -Luke Muehlhauser, Atheist.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/JBB_zpslfcgumno.png
That’s two. I asked for a half dozen more times…. (It still doesn’t say “I support slavery,” so you’ll have to keep trying.)
Yes, it does… and it’s a horrible, ghastly, inhuman position to hold.
I encourage anyone who cares to go read the thread for themselves.
You’re banking that they won’t.
Quite on the contrary, I’m hoping they do.
That’s it?
You’re just going to let me have the last word?
You still need to post your picture four more times!
People don’t need to read the original thread (which you keep forgetting to include: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/why-should-i-be-nice-to-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1385). No one needs to read 200 comments on an old conversation because they’ve got your screenshot! It clearly says, “I support slavery!” Or…well…it might say that, if you wish hard enough and try again. Try clicking your heels the next time you click “paste.”
So, do you support slavery?
Yes or No?
No.
Ahhh, so, if you’re now changing your position on slavery you’ll have to tell me where, precisely, you got the idea that trafficking in human beings is morally reprehensible.
Obviously, it’s not from your bible. Your god (Yhwh) supports it, Jesus sanctions it, and Paul encourages it, even giving instructions as to how a slave should behave.
So, if not from the bible, where did you, Amanda, get the idea that slavery is wrong?
I’m going to need John Blande to come in here and interpret the rest of that. Because it sounds like you’re speaking for God and interpreting the Bible in a way that millions of Christians must have missed.
I’m not answering your loaded questions, JZ. That’s why I refused to answer multiple times when we first had this discussion months ago.
My whole point–all along–is that YOU will have to describe where you got the idea that slavery is wrong. I bet we got it from the same place. I bet both of us FEEL it. But only a Theist has a reason to trust their feelings.
Ahhhh, I see, so you haven’t changed your postion at all.
To save me the whole cat and mouse game, let’s just jump to the conclusion reached on April 8th in that thread from which all this arose:
The bible supports slavery, and so to do you.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
Good grief, JZ.
The problem you Atheists are running into is that your quotes make you look bad–even in context.
But my quotes are clear and consistent–when taken in context.
I told you to burn the Bible. But you have to translate that in your head to, “Amanda supports whatever JZ thinks the Bible supports.” The teacher in me wants to explain until you understand. But I’m not sure that’s possible. And the BETTER teacher in me thinks it’s important for you to work this out yourself…
If you honestly, actually, truly believe that “indentured servitude could be considered consistent with a biblical worldview” is the same as “God and I both support human trafficking because I do everything the Bible says” then I don’t even know where to start. Lol!
Let’s play a game: can you read between the lines and understand the nuanced concepts I’m getting at? Or do you REALLY need a Tildeb length sermon for me to spell it out?
I mean, REALLY?
“Amanda supports whatever JZ thinks the Bible supports.”
I haven’t interpreted anything… Just read your words: A BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW SUPPORTS SLAVERY.
You are a Christian, aren’t you?
Oh wait, now there’s this… “Burn the bible”
Burn it?
Okay, so now you jettison Yhwh and Jesus as fast as you can, exactly as you’ve done in the past, and ever-so-conveniently adopt a vaporous Deistic belief-system.
I see.
And here I was thinking that you at least (unlike your always slippery father) had some intellectual courage in your faith.
It would be easier to read my words if you actually quoted them…
You probably better go back and post that screen shot again.
Maybe if you wish really hard, it will say “The biblical worldview supports slavery.”
OK
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/MS_Slave_zps1tkeqciy.png
Oh, and try and say “indentured servitude” is not fully fledged slavery, including the captives (women and children) of war… or I might have to paste ever pro-slavery passage and command from your bible.
I’m not going to say anything because you didn’t tell me you needed that explanation. I asked whether you “REALLY?!” needed me to spell it all out for you in a Tildeb-length response, because you actually don’t understand. (You’re incapable of nuanced thinking.) OR, whether it makes no difference what I say because you’re not interested in talking about morality. You’re only interested in what ALL the New Atheists are obsessed with: how stupid their Christian neighbor is.
Say, “Please write a post on the topic of slavery, and you’re awesome, Mrs. McMommy.”
And then I will. 🙂
But we were talking about morality, Amanda, at painful length, and using slavery as a case study… hence the question put to you repeatedly, and yet repeatedly dodged by both you and your father.
You eventually admitted that you support slavery because, well, the bible supports slavery.
I’m not putting words in your mouth. It’s there in black and white.
Why must everything with you and your father be a ridiculous song and dance?
If you are now changing your position and saying you don’t (now) support slavery, then just tell me where you got that idea from?
It’s certainly not from your god, Yhwh, not from Jesus or Paul, so from where, Amanda?
It’s either god-given, as detailed in your bible which si the only source document for your god, Yhwh, or it’s a human meme, an “evolved societal idea” as your father finally admitted, which is formally traceable back to the Indians and the Chinese.
FINALLY!
I had to read a really long time to find it, but you sang and danced your way to a sort-of answer of your own!
An evolved societal idea. Yes! Let’s suppose your comment about the Indians and the Chinese is true.
Where did THEY get the idea from? What have all of us been evolving TOWARD, huh?
That’s the question you need to ask yourself: if humans are better off now than back when the majority of the world supported slavery, what is the ultimate goal? What are we moving TOWARD?
Good grief, I’ve answered this numerous times. Enlightened self-interest.
Now, Amanda, please don’t dodge the question again:
That’s not an answer, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth. “Enlightenment” sounds awfully religious to me…
Care to explain it in scientific terms?
It means the chances of you being a slave today are virtually nill.
That you accuse ME of “song and dance” is hilarious.
Answer the question
And before you accuse me of not answering your question, it’s toward s better tomorrow.
Totally agree! It will be a better tomorrow if we all _____________ (fill in the blank).
Answer the question
I got the idea from God himself. Not Yahweh, as you ignorantly define him. But Frank, as I described for Ark yesterday.
If you still need more explanation, you’re going to need to tell me I’m awesome.
And there it: jettisoning Yhwh, jettisoning Jesus, jettisoning Christianity, and ever-so-conveniently adopting a vaporous Deistic belief-system.
I stand corrected.
You are as slippery as your father.
I’m jettisoning YOUR lousy description of Yaweh and Jesus and Christianity, JZ. I’m refusing to be trapped by your loaded “When-will-you-stop-beating-your-wife” questions. Indeed, I slip right out of them.
The reason I always get excited when you start talking about “memes” and “Enlightened self-interest” is because I AGREE, completely. You’re the one who needs to fabricate this giant difference between the two of us. You’re the one who depends on the good-guy/bad-guy, intellectual-vs-brainwashed narrative to make yourself feel better about your spiritual blindness. I’ve always said that EVERYONE is religious and EVERYONE has the truth of God written somewhere in their hearts.
While you continue to obsess over the civil codes of ancient people that you usually deny ever existed, I’m ready to talk about science and reality any time. You and I would agree more than we disagree, if you weren’t so biased and stubborn. (As Martin Rowson said, “If God proved he existed, I still wouldn’t believe in him… I don’t believe in God, not because I can’t but because I don’t want to.”) The biggest difference–maybe the ONLY difference–between the two of us is that I have no problem accepting that “Evolution” is another way to say “Journey to God.”
So, Amanda, a simple question:
Are you a Christian?
Yes or No?
It’s not a simple question, when the person asking has a warped view of what “Christian” means.
Am I a follower of Yahweh–the genocidal, slavery-loving maniac?
No.
Obviously.
You don’t get to pick and choose your god here.
Christians believe in the Middle Eastern god, Yhwh, as “revealed” in the Pentateuch.
Period.
Don’t like it?
Don’t like that particular god?
Does it embarrass you?
No problem.
Lose your religion.
Goodbye
Lol!
You think you get to tell me what I can and can’t do “here.” ?
You think you can keep using the word “period” to make your statements true?
You think you and KIA can say “have a good day” and “goodbye” as a parting statement, before plugging your ears and running away?
WHOOOOOOOOSH!
Just trying to save you from the sheer and utter embarrassment you so clearly feel towards Yhwh, the god of Christianity, revealed in the Pentateuch, and nowhere else.
No you’re not… you’re trying to pass the time, while you can’t sleep.
I’m on about the same timeline as you…. Just a few thousand kilometers to the south.
Where? My dad thought Brazil. Is that right?
Yes. You do know where Brazil is, don’t you?
Yep. But I told him I thought you were in New Zealand.
So I was wrong.
That happens sometimes.
That being said, I think you’d like Scott Adams’ little book, God’s Debris. You can download it free online. It seems to meet your actual deistic beliefs quite nicely, and its certianly more plausible (and appealing) than Yhwh.
I’ll read it if you start calling yourself a Deist from now on, instead of an Atheist.
If not, then I appreciate your help trying to make sure I believe the right stuff, but…. you first… 🙂
Hahahahahahaaaaa!
You find this amusing why, precisely?
JZ: maybe you can quote your favorite part of Scott Adam’s book (God’s Debris), so my dad knows you’re being serious.
Because you said it.
I see.
Persuasive argument there, John Branyan.
“Usually, [Atheists say] something like this: ‘I experience a world of moral facts. I feel very strongly that rape is objectively wrong, and charity is objectively right.’
Or
‘Almost everybody believes in moral facts. It’s just obvious. Until you can prove there aren’t any, I’m justified in believing what people have always believed: that some things are really right or wrong.’
Do those arguments look familiar? They should. They are the exact same arguments atheists reject when they are given for the existence of God.” -Luke Muehlhauser, Atheist.
Here, read for yourself: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=8859
(What I wouldn’t give to snag an honest Atheist like THAT on our blog sometime…)
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/JHN_zpsttacnufp.png
Scene!
The discussion is over.
Your argument lost.
That’s why you shouldn’t bring it up anymore…
Oh, and John Branyan, people are not following “my” self-interest, rather their own.
That’s the whole meaning and purpose of the word “self” in that line, “Enlighten self-intestest”… Just in case you missed it.
The saddest (funniest) thing is that you’re oblivious to the discussion being over. You still think you have a point!
Errrrum, you brought up slavery, not me.
Regretting now, I see…
…and yes, you did post a link, i haven’t followed it to see if its the right link, but you stated (wrongly) in your commentary that the comment was directed to you, John Branyan.
It wasn’t.
So, why the lie?
All your comments are interchangeable. Doesn’t matter who you’re talking to.
Yes, it does, John Branyan.
It matters a lot… and you lied in your post.
Period.
No.
Your comments don’t matter at all.
Period.
Your habitual lying matters.
Says who?
So you enjoy lying?
You find pleasure in it?
Interesting…
What’s wrong with lying, Windbag?
Nothing, according to you… And you’re certainly quite adept at it.
Lots of practice.
You can’t give a reason to quit lying. Why stop?
Oh, and John (that’s John Branyan, not John Blande who it seems to be using John Branyan’s IP address, which is kinda’ odd) your clever (deceitful?) editing should probably mention that the screenshot comment you’ve used in your post regarding genocide was to your daughter, Amanda, not you, on April 9th.
As you can see by that date, it’s from the same thread of the screenshot I posted after your daughter, Amanda, admitted that she supported slavery.
Oooops.
I guess you either blundered horribly there, or simply lied deliberately…. Again.
I can’t figure out why he dropped the warning header. It would seem to be mandatory by now.
🙂 That it does
April 8th, my apologies.
Hear ye, simple-minded. Posts intended for the whelp Amanda may not be used to incriminate john zande. Any infringement upon this will be considered either a heinous lie or a large blunder worthy to be considered the absolute greatest offense that john zande will point out. You have been warned.
Now wait a second…
I know for a fact that John Branyan is on stage right now, and that he has been for 40 minutes. But JZ tells me that Blande’s IP address is the same as Branyan’s.
Now, there can be no other explanation except that….(*dramatic music*)
JB’S COMPUTER IS TYPING ALL BY ITSELF!
Apologies for having missed much. JB, perhaps I can clear this up to you in summary, as best as I can follow the comments (which appear to be out of order, so I’ll have to look at them from a 3D mindset).
JZ (I shudder to abbreviate his name with such irreverence, but it is tedious otherwise) took a jab at you and your daughter for both supporting slavery, and he asked what your point was supposed to be.
You did nothing but hurl an insipid insult.
JZ acknowledged that you don’t support slavery, but then referenced your contradicting words, catching you in a lie!
You fell for his trap and challenged him on your acceptance of slavery because surprise! JZ KNEW your comment was sarcasm, and both his jab and reference of your contradicting words are revealed to be return sarcasm! So that lie he deftly caught you in was actually sarcasm, and you didn’t lie at all! HA! In the same post, JZ will still accept your sarcasm as your actual admittance that your god is morally reprehensible (you still may not accept any sarcasm JZ submits as any actual admittance, however).
After catching you in your lie that was actually sarcasm but still acceptable as an admittance, JZ moved the discussion along to mrsmcmommy’s actual admittance of slavery (no word yet on if this will also be revealed as sarcasm).
You, JB admitedt defeat and accept that she approves of slavery (sarcasm? only JZ is able to distinguish. I am unable). Then you move on to your question about what’s wrong with slavery.
JZ cited your previous sarcasm as an answer to your serious question (sarcasm is so fun!)
You rejected his perfectly fine submission.
JZ cited your sarcasm again. No god is required for sarcasm.
You incessantly demanded a non-sarcasm answer.
JZ called out your lie (too many for me to know which one specifically) and for the first time, gave you the answer he’s given you repeatedly: enlightened self-interest (the source of which can only be JZ himself).
You were confused by this answer and asked again, you poor thing.
So JZ had to spell it out for you and explain that his enlightened empathy doesn’t allow him to own slaves because he wouldn’t want to be owned as a slave. And here is the crux of JZ’s wonderful character, JB. Don’t you see that by this reasoning, JZ has also come to the conclusion that he would never want to be proven wrong by a halfwit git? THAT’S why he never proves you wrong about anything. He would rather argue seriously about something into a corner and get out with “return sarcasm,” return real questions with sarcastic answers, hammer unimportant points, and point you to blindly accept the only truth, his self-interested enlightenment, than to actually prove you wrong about anything. This is exactly why he’s my role model. And I would hope that by simplifying his answers for you, the truth can be revealed to such a small mind.
But you, you dare questioned him why you should blindly follow his enlightened wisdom without any supporting facts, evidence, or anything mentally tangible. You threw it back in his face.
JZ will not answer the question because you must reach the conclusion (that you’ve already reached according to the sarcasm reference) yourself.
And now the newest development when MMM dares intrude.
JZ patiently points out that she is exempt from the discussion because we know her opinions already. He’s waiting to hear JB’s opinion (that he has exercised he also already knows but has determined it is not exempt from the discussion) instead.
JZ kindly points out that JB should not follow JZ’s self-interest, only his own (but if the two conflict, I’m sure that JZ’s will trump anyone else’s). I am too unlearned to understand where the “enlightened” part comes in. I’m sure JZ will inform anyone, based on his own enlightened self-interest, whether their self-interest is enlightened or not.
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/55940343.jpg
Thanks for simplifying.
That was a big help…
I’m not sure how to reply directly to the middle of the thread where I was addressed, mcamanda, since JB’s post is the lowest tier that gives me an option to reply. Please find a reliable atheist quote that will explain how I can do this. Or tell me yourself and lie about it being a quote since that’s second nature to you.
What’s happening here in his 2:39 and 2:47 posts is JZ is using his enlightened self-interest to inform you that support of slavery is a horrible position. Then at 2:58, he posts JB’s sarcasm comment as a claim against you(?) even though his 9:39 post said he knew JB doesn’t support it (I’m guessing this is now a reverse return sarcasm). At 3:35, JZ decides to forego all his effort to point back to where you said you support slavery and re-ask the question. I believe his approach at this point is to try to win the same argument against you twice in order to get it through your thick skull. At 3:39, the great john zande demands that you tell him where this non-support of slavery comes from. He has completely debunked the possibility of it coming from the bible by using his enlightened self-interest which has no use for your feeble constructs of context and interpretation. I suggest you tell him you got it from self-interest so that he can then inform you that it was not enlightened. You cannot win this argument, mrsamanda; it is futile.
-whoosh
Oh, man, I missed this comment until just now!
It would have been helpful to have it when I was struggling to get through to John Zande yesterday…
In the future, John Blande, feel free to start a whole new thread when the discussion is too long to jump into. I’d like your summaries be one of the last things on the page anyway, and I’ll let the Great John Zande know they’re down there, if necessary.
Also: do you know anyone named Jildeb? Now THERE’S a great teacher who should really come with a translator. 🙂
Life is to short to stay steeping in my stupidity!
So true. Wise, even.
And yet, look at how much help we heathen are willing to offer you to lend a helping hand to get you out of your stupidity, your embedded ignorance, your overbearing arrogance, and your dishonest ways. So much effort JB and all for you. Don’t blush. It’s what we atheists do.
And that’s all we can do for you: try to help by pointing out where you go wrong in your epistemology, where you go astray in your assumptions, how you allow yourself to be regularly fooled, where you misrepresent in your quest to change your pig of so many Bad Ideas by applying your lipstick of faith to them. Think of us as your Special Little Helpers, your nearly instant fact checkers, your link to a reality you believe is different than it really is.
You’re so very, very lucky.
Can our readers email you when they have a question about reality?
Go ahead and leave a link…
Blessed.
Not lucky.
(Grape Ape!) Over 40 feet high!
(Grape Ape!) Just a little bit shy!
(Grape Ape!) What a super-strong guy!
(Yup, that’s me!) The Great Grape Ape!
(Grape Ape!) If he comes to your town,
(Grape Ape!) He will really put down
(Grape Ape!) Any bad guy around!
The Great Grape Ape!
What a sight to see him jogging, block after block!
Things begin to shake and quake and rattle and rock!
The big, big, big, big gorilililililililila!
(Grape Ape!) I do not reccommend
(Achoooo!) He is one to offend . . .
(Grape Ape!) So, be sure he’s your friend!
(Better be sure!) The Great Grape Ape! (Yup, that’s me!)
You’re so committed to uncensored honesty, that you’ve even left your horrendous grammar errors in-tact. (And my eye is twitching, Ugh. Look at that last line!) 🙂
No errors do I see.
Tildeb found it, and quoted it as written, below….
Also, one of your screenshots shows that you used the wrong “your.”
There is no hyphen in intact.
Haha! Thanks, Lynda!
Glass houses and such. 🙂
I’ll go ahead and leave my mistake, too, in solidarity.
Curious that there are so many people (suddenly) commenting who
1) Don’t have blogs
and
2) All seem to have the same IP address.
Coincidence?
I don’t believe in coincidence.
We as a species, armed with understanding and explanations that work, have moved well past that archaic ontology to a 3D interactive model (specifically of interacting fields rather than isolated articulated objects). Effect is now understood to be an inevitable product of the present. Inevitable. It makes no sense to call the present a ’cause’ when the chain is so intertwined with different fields… from the micro to the macro. That’s physics today, and it indicates the universe can be understood without any need for anything other than a purely ‘natural’, unguided, purposeless, mindless physical processes that produce all kinds of marvelous emergent properties.
In other words: Evolution.
You and your father are evolving into different (simultaneously active) online avatars and pretending to be different people/commenters?
That’s an interesting mutation.
I don’t think it will work, though.
JZ, I’m telling you this as a friend: you really need to find someone you trust who can tell you what you’re looking at…
LOL!!!!
Also–I have a scary prediction. I bet that Tildeb is one of our Avatars!!!! AGH!
A “friend,” I see…
So, you guys live in some sort of Waco-like cult compound there in Indiana, huh?
Yep. Waco cult.
Computers type by themselves.
And, Tildeb is in on it!
JZ is yanking my quotes out of context while whining at me for misusing one of his.
Whoooooooooooooooooooosh
Did you check Tildeb?
Is he safe?