You Don't Need To Believe

The sun rises…

…you don’t need to believe in planetary motion.

Water becomes steam…

…you don’t need to believe in evaporation.

Fire consumes a candle…

…you don’t need to believe in rapid oxidation.

Calculations yield consistent results…

…you don’t need to believe in mathematics.

Dropped stones fall…

…you don’t need to believe in gravity.

Order, reason, and logic fill the universe…

…you don’t need to believe these things require God.

Truth stands independent of your opinions.

Truth stands independent of your wishes.

Absolute, objective truth exists.

Denying objective truth requires accepting an objective truth.

…but you don’t need to believe that.

Truth doesn’t need your belief.

 

229 thoughts on “You Don't Need To Believe

  1. You are simply replacing the word ‘reality’ for ‘Absolute, objective truth’ in order to make wiggle room for you to insert an unnecessary and nebulous confusing agency you call ‘God’.

  2. Sidenote: Did you notice that JZ’s pantomime, Yhwh, has evolved from the “Middle Eastern god” to the “god of Christianity?”

    Why won’t any of these Atheists call God “Frank,” like I plainly requested multiple times?

  3. Amanda believes the god of Christianity, Yhwh, not only keeps secrets regarding what is right and what is wrong (what is moral and what is not), but has also gone out of its way to deliberately deceive people, as demonstrated in the Bible which says one thing about morality, but which is, according to Amanda, a lie.

    A deliberate lie.

    A lie that has produced a tremendous amount of (apparently) unnecessary suffering and death (murder) over thousands of years

    If what Amanda says is true, the question then is this:

    Is the Christian god, Yhwh, keeping secrets regarding what is right and what is wrong ethical?

      • Amanda believes the god of Christianity, Yhwh, not only keeps secrets regarding what is right and what is wrong (what is moral and what is not), but has also gone out of its way to deliberately deceive people, as demonstrated in the Bible which says one thing about morality, but which is, according to Amanda, a lie.

        A deliberate lie.

        A lie that has produced a tremendous amount of (apparently) unnecessary suffering and death (murder) over thousands of years

        If what Amanda says is true, the question then is this:

        Is the Christian god, Yhwh, keeping secrets regarding what is right and what is wrong ethical?

          • Please just answer the question put to you without the typical Branyan ONE-HUNDRED-COMMENT-DIVERSION-SONG-AND-DANCE.

            Can you do that?

            Is it within your capabilities?

            Please.

            As you laid it out, is Yhwh’s behaviour ethical?

          • IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT I SAY–YOU WILL POST WHATEVER YOU WANT AND DECLARE, “ACCORDING TO AMANDA….”

            Just post the porno Jesus and be done with it.

            Your credibility is shot.

            Everyone knows you’re a joke.

            And there is NOTHING you can say which will convince me you’re worth an actual answer ever, ever again.

            LOL! Poor, pathetic, insane man.

          • Seems you’re finding it hard to defend what you believe… what you write.

            Okay, by your evasion, it appears you’re conceding that Yhwh’s behaviour is anything but ethical.

            What you described is unethical.

            I agree.

            Looks like you have develop another hypothesis.

            That last one just crashed and burned. Badly.

          • Don’t blame me for your blunder.

            I do, however, look forward to your next attempt to defend your Christian god, Yhwh.

            Just pay more attention to inventing something actually believable, OK.

          • I see.

            You’re embarrassed.

            By the way, if anyone is still reading–all of this is JZ’s desperate attempt to distract from his bizarre meltdown earlier this morning, where he blamed my dad for what ended up being JZ’s own stupid mistake. (I mean–he was really unhinged: WHY ARE YOU CENSORING?!, etc.) You should scroll up if you missed it. Hilarious.

          • The whole situation gives a certain irony to JZ’s warning, “Don’t blame me for your blunder,” doesn’t it?
            LOL!

            From the man who said, “Why are you censoring??? That’s so cheap!!!!” even after we insisted we did no such thing.

            LOL!

          • And then he was asked, “Are you going to admit you made a mistake?” and…of course he wouldn’t (until just now)… LOL!

            Do you think he’ll apologize?

          • I made a mistake. I was wrong. I’m tremendously sorry.

            Can you admit your proposition was poorly-thought-through and, self-evidently, fundamentally wrong?

          • Fabulous!

            But…

            “there is NOTHING you can say which will convince me you’re worth an actual answer ever, ever again.”

            You’re still a joke with not a shred of credibility remaining. It’s time to find another wide-eyed Christian who actually feels they owe you an answer. Someone who will be horrified enough to censor your comments when you post porno Jesus…. someone who will ban you completely when they realize you’re a distraction from those more worth their time…

            Here, we’re just going to keep giving you rope, and you’re going to keep hanging yourself. LOL!

          • I made a mistake. I was wrong. I’m tremendously sorry.

            Can you admit your proposition was poorly-thought-through and, self-evidently, fundamentally wrong?

          • OK, I’ll read your continued evasion as being:

            “Yes, my proposition that Yhwh keeps secrets regarding his hidden objective moral truth was hopelessly, fundamentally, fatally flawed. I was wrong. It was a thoroughly retarded idea, now that I think about it.”

            Great.

            Or, are you happy worshipping an UNETHICAL god?

          • You wouldn’t be JZ, if you didn’t try to manipulate people into playing your game, by suggesting they are “evading” something or another, and then drawing whatever conclusion you were going to draw from the beginning.

            It’s comforting to know that YOU–(unlike God, who is creative and tolerant as he deals with ever-changing humans)–YOU are always unflexible and unreasonable. 🙂

          • Repeat after me

            “Yes, my proposition that Yhwh keeps SECRETS regarding his HIDDEN objective moral truth was hopelessly, fundamentally, fatally flawed. I was wrong. It was a thoroughly retarded idea, now that I think about it.”

          • LOL!

            Poor fundy.

            I understand EXACTLY why it bothers you that God changes his mind.

            But, fear not! As long as there are fundamentalists in the Universe, there will be minds that always stay stubbornly, unwaveringly, concretely the same. You’ll never change! 🙂

          • As I said earlier: I’m not mad, but I would hazard to guess those millions of slaves and murdered gays who suffered tremendously over thousands of years might be…

          • As I said earlier: I’m not mad, but I would hazard to guess those millions of slaves and murdered gays who suffered tremendously over thousands of years might be…

          • Have I got this wrong?

            Are you, in fact, upset because you believe God didn’t do the right thing, by allowing people to have free will?

          • No. You came up with the “keeping secrets” pantomime.

            Yes or no, do I have it wrong?

            If you were in charge, would the only ETHICAL course of action be enforcing a one-size-fits-all plan, which humans could not affect with their own choices?

          • OK, here comes the typical Branyan ONE-HUNDRED-COMMENT-DIVERSION-SONG-AND-DANCE.

            Can’t defend a position, evade, evade, evade, evade.

            Sorry, but not interested.

            Seen the dance.

            It’s boring.

          • Look, here comes the typical JOHN ZANDE SONG AND DANCE DIVERSION SOMETHING SOMETHING EMBARRASSMENT SOMETHING.

            Can’t be the one manipulating the conversation, evade, evade, evade.

            Yes or no, do I have it wrong?

            If you were in charge, would the only ETHICAL course of action be enforcing a one-size-fits-all plan, which humans could not affect with their own choices?

          • “Isn’t an ‘Objective moral truth’ the very definition of one size fits all?”

            Is that what YOU think? LOL!

            Yes or no:

            The only just God is an unyielding God. Yes or no?

          • Yes or no:

            Does your concept of an ETHICAL God require him to be unchanging when that also means “unmoving, dogged, obstinate, and uncompromising?”

            Is that what you expect?

            You’re questioning God’s ethics because He works WITH humans, and allows them to impact his plan? Is that right?

            He’s unethical because he ADAPTS for us?

          • Errrum, aren’t you the one trying to say an “objective” (unmoving, fixed, forever) truth exists?

            (albeit one that’s, apparently, a secret)

          • Are you going to answer the question, or shall I stop asking?

            Does having an “objective” moral goal mean that God can never change his mind?

            Yes or no?

          • SONG AND DANCE SONG AND DANCE SONG AND DANCE!!!

            YES OR NO: Does your concept of an ETHICAL God require him to be unchanging when that also means “unmoving, dogged, obstinate, and uncompromising?”

            Is that what you expect?

            You’re questioning God’s ethics because He works WITH humans, and allows them to impact his plan and ADAPTS for their good?

          • Hey, don’t blame me if your god, Yhwh, contradicts you.

            “Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above, who created all heaven’s lights. Unlike them, He never changes or casts shifting shadows” (James 1:17).

            “The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8).

            “I, the LORD, do not change” (Malachi 3:6)

            You are a Christian, aren’t you?

            Sorry, but you don’t get to make things up.

          • You seem to be shying away from my question and trying to figure out what *I* believe again. (Reminder: you don’t get answers from me.)

            Are you going to answer my question to you?

            Must an ETHICAL God (Yahweh, Lo, Frank, or any other) be unyielding?

          • How embarrassing. You can’t even have an intelligent conversation unless you’re telling others what they believe.

            LOL!

            Does a God who changes his mind automatically mean he is UNETHICAL? Yes or No?

          • Must an ETHICAL God (Yahweh, Lo, Frank, or any other) be unyielding?

            In matters of truth, yes. Witholding information would be unethical… especially when murdering people is involved.

            Wouldnt you agree?

          • You’re asking me questions again.

            Use your own pea brain.

            Are there situations where “withholding information from children” could result in someone getting hurt?

            Don’t hurt yourself thinking.

            We can get Violet in here to imagine all the times “witholding information” might be the morally correct thing to do, but I believe you MIGHT be able to do it yourself…

            Can you think of such a situation, JOHN ZANDE?

          • John Zande,

            Can you understand what “I’m not answering questions” means?

            Can YOU think of a reason why parents might withhold information from children, even if others get hurt?

          • Please just answer the question put to you without the typical Branyan ONE-HUNDRED-COMMENT-DIVERSION-SONG-AND-DANCE.
            Can you do that?
            Is it within your capabilities?
            Please.
            As you laid it out, is Yhwh’s behaviour (keeping secrets as to what is actually right and what is actually wrong) ethical?

          • PLEASE JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION WITHOUT YOUR TYPICAL ZANDE SONG AND DANCE!

            Can you do that?

            Is it within your capabilities?

            Please.

            As you’ve laid it out, must God tell humanity EVERYTHING he knows, ALL AT ONCE, even when humankind was in its infant stage? Is that the same as unethical?

          • OK, I’ll read your continued evasion as being:

            Repeat after me

            “Yes, my proposition that Yhwh keeps SECRETS regarding his HIDDEN objective moral truth was hopelessly, fundamentally, fatally flawed. I was wrong. It was a thoroughly RETARDED IDEA, now that I think about it.”

            Great.

            Or, are you happy worshipping an UNETHICAL god?

          • OK, I’ll read your continued evasion as, “I see that I’m in over my head when forced to answer questions…I’m a theological and philosophical lightweight.”

            Great.

            Or are you going to admit that you’re just unhappy that God didn’t expect the same level of responsibility from the Ancient Israelites as he does from YOU?
            A little angry at Dad for going easy on the baby? Jealous?

          • Hello?

            Ethical-Authoritarian JZ?

            Are you going to admit that what you call “unethical” is simply your own, personal disapproval of God’s parenting throughout the ages? (LOL! Of course, you’ll never admit it! But it’s really fun to shout YES OR NO at you anyway…) 🙂

          • Does withholding information from your children result in people being murdered?

            Yes or no, Amanda?

            That was your equivalency exercise, wasn’t it?

          • Are you going to admit that you’re just unhappy that God didn’t expect the same level of responsibility from the Ancient Israelites as he does from YOU?
            A little angry at Dad for going easy on the baby?

          • Does withholding information from your children result in people being murdered?

            Yes or no, Amanda?

            That was your equivalency exercise, wasn’t it?

          • Or are you going to admit that you’re just unhappy that God didn’t expect the same level of responsibility from the Ancient Israelites as he does from YOU?
            A little angry at Dad for going easy on the baby? Jealous?

          • Does withholding information from your children result in people being murdered?

            Yes or no, Amanda?

            That was your equivalency exercise, wasn’t it?

          • You.
            Will.
            Not.
            Get.
            Any.
            Answers.
            From.
            Me.

            Maybe if/when you grow up, I’ll change my mind. 😉

            Are you going to admit that you’re just unhappy that God didn’t expect the same level of responsibility from the Ancient Israelites as he does from YOU?
            A little angry at Dad for going easy on the baby? Jealous?

          • Does withholding information from your children result in people being murdered?

            Yes or no, Amanda?

            That was your equivalency exercise, wasn’t it?

            Let me answer it for you:

            ”No, withholding information from my children doesn’t result in people being murdered, or thousands of years of slavery, or pointless animal sacrifice. If it did, it would be thoroughly unethical.”

          • Or are you going to admit that you’re just unhappy that God didn’t expect the same level of responsibility from the Ancient Israelites as he does from YOU?
            A little angry at Dad for going easy on the baby? Jealous?

            Let me answer it for you:

            “I don’t want to answer that question because I’m only comfortable talking about other people’s pantomimes instead of owning my own.”

          • Let me answer it for you:

            ”No, withholding information from my children doesn’t result in people being murdered, or thousands of years of slavery, or pointless animal sacrifice. If it did, MY ACTIONS would be thoroughly unethical.”

          • Let me answer it for you:

            “I don’t want to answer that question because I’m only comfortable talking about other people’s pantomimes instead of owning my own.”

            (I hope you’re still having fun, JZ. I promise, I am wwaaaaaaaaay more stubborn than you.) Let me know if you just want me to start LOL ing! 🙂

          • Let me answer it for you:

            ”No, withholding information from my children doesn’t result in people being murdered, or thousands of years of slavery, or pointless animal sacrifice. If it did, MY ACTIONS would be thoroughly unethical.”

          • Word of advice, Amanda

            In the future, do try to think your positions (and your arguments) through a little more carefully.

            A little actual thought might save you future embarrassment.

            Goodnight.

          • Can you list the ten things all parents should tell their children, so they’re not “withholding” important information? Yes or no?
            LOL! Of course you can’t!

            You can’t list 10 rules better than the ones the “Middle-Eastern god” gave his children.

            Word of advice, JZ.

            In the future, do try to think your positions (and your arguments) through a little more carefully. A little actual thought MIGHT save you future embarrassment.

            Also, stop being so paranoid. That will help, too.

            Sleep tight, sweetie!

          • John Branyan says:

            Don’t you think the Zande Dance is more fun than just reading the Zande gibberish?

          • Please just answer the question put to you without the typical Branyan ONE-HUNDRED-COMMENT-DIVERSION-SONG-AND-DANCE.
            Can you do that?
            Is it within your capabilities?
            Please.
            As you laid it out, is Yhwh’s behaviour (keeping secrets as to what is actually right and what is actually wrong) ethical?

    • Jz,
      The biblical god only determines right and wrong, moral and immoral by what he thinks at the time. It’s completely arbitrary and according to DCT. To make it more difficult, often times what his moral standard is for us is not a moral standard for him and equally, what he says is immoral and evil for us is perfectly acceptable for him. It really depends on how he happens to feel or want to act that particular day.
      Arbitrary and capricious. He is god and can do as he wishes. You see, the biblical god and Allister Crowley have a lot in common. For those less well read and unfamiliar, Crowley said this…((“Do what thou wilt” shall be the whole of the law))
      Only difference is that the Biblical God sequester this ‘freedom’ for himself alone. We on the other hand are at his whim to determine what is moral or not depending on the direction of his mood.
      Insanity is hearing voices that tell you to take your son up to the mountains and kill him… or kill the inhabitants of the next town over.
      Or you’re just a Biblical Christian ‘hearing’ gods Divine Command

  4. @amanda

    Since the very first encounter with this blog, which came about after ”meeting” your father on John’s blog, where he was as disingenuous and obnoxious then as he always is here, I have wondered what the purpose of this blog is?

    Seriously,you do not really defend Christianity in any conventional sense, and in fact, most of the posts are simply poorly scripted vehicles to allow you to rant on about your ridiculous and ill-informed beliefs concerning atheism, morality and evolution.
    And you champion/are an admirer of at least one seeming psychopath.

    You never address issues directly, you never produce any evidence to back the claims you make, and often flatly reject scientific evidence where it directly contradicts your faith-based beliefs with evidence.
    You claim to be Christian yet imply the bible is not the source of this belief.

    Your christian followers are a mixed bag, from Young Earth Creationists such as James and Wally to the more (apparently) reasonable such as Gene.

    So, it would interesting to know what is the purpose of this blog?

  5. This is another great post!

    It is deep and requires some deep thinking in order to relish.

    It took me a while to be able to muster up a reply.

    The fundamental difference between God’s people and atheists centers around humility and hubris.

    God’s people are humble before wisdom because they know it is a gift from God.

    The atheist hallucinates himself full of wisdom and its master.

    Humility brought about Christian Western Civilization.

    Atheist hubris brought about the greatest mass murders in human history.

    • John Branyan says:

      A few years back I was reading William Lane Craig. It was some chapter where he addresses the humanist idea that we can be ‘good without God’. Craig said, in essence, you can be good without BELIEF in God. But God necessarily exists in order for ‘Good’ to exist. It’s such a simple concept but I hadn’t thought of it in those terms before. Obviously, things are only true FOR ME if I believe them to be true. But objective things are true without my belief. As you said, this requires some humility to accept it.

      I’m going to reblog your post from today about God being love. I read it in church (when I was supposed to be listening to the sermon) and thought it was a bulls-eye. Imagine the idea of God being love coming from LEVITICUS!!!

      Hopefully, we can keep the useless trolls in the playpen in case the grown-ups want to talk.

      • John,

        Thank you for the re-blog. I really appreciate that.

        I was doing the same with your post last night when I was at Mass!

        The tragic case of John Zande…

        …he has really gone off the deep end since THE Donald was elected President of the United States.

        I usually give him a free sand box to play in over at my place.

        But last night, though he knows I’m one of those wily Catholics he became abusive toward Jesus’ mother Mary.

        And he hit the homerun to hell by blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

        I had to delete his hatred lest he become a mill stone around my own neck to drag me down with him.

        My goodness!

        There is a lot of hatred out there.

  6. Oh man, the comment section was a hoot today! JZ’s censornoia is hysterical. Hasn’t he worked out by now that this is the last place on the internet to censor? So embarrassing, I nearly felt bad for him. Reminded me of watching my youngest siblings argue.

    “You took my toy!”
    “No I didn’t.”
    “YES YOU DID, IT WAS HERE AND NOW IT’S GONE.”
    “I didn’t take your toy.”
    “YOU DID! Who else could’ve taken it??”
    “…”

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