Here’s a collection of words I read.
The Washington Post interviewed the most interesting voter in the world…
…an atheist!
This brave dude risked everything to ask questions of presidential candidates.
“As an atheist voter, going in to some of these [meetings], you realize you’re going to be surrounded by people who disagree with you. I really felt that with Ted Cruz.”
Sometimes, when I am surrounded by people who disagree…
…I briefly ponder the possibility that I could be wrong.
But the intrepid skeptic persevered…
I put my hand as high as I could reach. I said, “Mr. Cruz, I have a question for you.” I said, “Hi. I’m an atheist.”
The room went silent. It was fun!
The room went silent!
Obviously, people were stunned to be in the presence of an atheist!
Or, maybe they were politely letting him ask his question.
Hard to know for sure since the article didn’t tell me the actual question.
But the ‘best answer’ came from Bernie:
“With Bernie Sanders, I could sense this was not a talking point. He basically said the Founding Fathers wanted there to be separation of church and state: That’s how they set this thing up.”
Thank God for this atheist voter!
This profound insight can’t be found anywhere in American government…
…except the 1st Amendment.
Shockingly, none of the candidates were opposed to the 1st Amendment!
Lucky for them!
Because the atheist voter would bring the hammer down!
I’m all for you having your beliefs. Go to church. Wear your cross necklace. Bring your Bible to school. I don’t care. But when I have elected officials trying to influence my life and my family’s life based on their religious beliefs and traditions and preferences, I have a huge problem with that.
The article doesn’t specify which elected officials are trying to influence his life.
Which elected officials are forcing him to carry a Bible.
Which elected officials are making him attend church.
I stand against that kind of religious tyranny!
But then…of course…this:
“I don’t want to talk out of both sides of my mouth here. I’m always going to side with science and evidence. I’m pro-choice…”
I’m glad he’s in favor of science and evidence.
Scientific evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that abortion results in murdered babies.
I’ll admit that it’s purely religious conjecture when I say, “It’s wrong to kill babies.”
But…
…this is important…
…stay with me…
The statement, “It should be legal to kill babies” cannot be proven with science.
A pro-choice philosophy is religious, not scientific.
With this enlightened understanding of the atheist voter’s worldview, I submit the following:
I’m all for you having your beliefs. Be an atheist. Wear T-shirts with a red letter ‘A’. Proclaim the Bible is fiction. I don’t care. But when I have elected officials who’ve legalized murder because of their atheistic beliefs and traditions and preferences, I have a huge problem with that.
Freedom from religion is not possible.
Any human being with the capacity to reason will form religious convictions.
Claiming you don’t believe in God doesn’t mean you aren’t religious.
It just means your religion is futile.
18 Responses
Therefore Yahweh murdered children in the deluge and later, ordered the murder of Canaanite children during Joshua’s genocidal campaign.
I’m curious, how do you, personally, square away your faith in this deity knowing he perpetrated these heinous acts?
I don’t think of God as another person. He wouldn’t be worth my worship if I thought myself capable of standing in judgment over Him.
My understanding is that no human being has ever existed unless God has given that person life. No mortal has willed himself into existence. God gives and God takes away. It seems wildly inappropriate for me to accuse the life giver of heinous behavior when He reclaims what is His in the first place.
God reveals Himself to be just, merciful and Holy. He is also a God of love. A God that I understand is a God who is less than me. I don’t know why He does what He does. But I trust that He is doing what’s right.
Fair enough.
So, to refer back to my original question, John: Do you worship Yahweh,the deity that appears in the Pentateuch? It is a straightforward question and I would appreciate a straightforward answer.
It’s not as straightforward as it may seem.
Short answer is yes. The name Yahweh was considered so sacred that it wasn’t written or spoken. God revealed his laws to mankind through priests and prophets. God is described in the Pentateuch as the omnipotent creator of the universe.
When Jesus came along, He revealed another aspect of God’s nature that was not revealed in the Old Testament laws. Jesus described God as a heavenly Father. Jesus said stuff like, “the kingdom of heaven is made up of children” and “go two miles when your pagan enemies command only one”. Crazy stuff to those law fearing Jews.
So I worship the same God as described in the Pentateuch but not in the same way as He was worshipped in the Pentateuch.
Fine the I can stop you right there as you are obviously ignorant of the archaeological evidence.
No offence meant, I am going to assume for now that you have not done any independent research on this issue, John and your faith is based solely on some inner need to confess an acknowledge you need a saviour, likely borne out of an emotional issue or some form of childhood cultural indoctrination? Apologies if this drags up any unpleasant issues.
Right to the topic at hand:
Firstly, Yahweh was initially a Canaanite deity. He also had a partner/spouse and was part of a pantheon.
If you have never investigated the Ugaric texts I suggest you do. Fascinating stuff, I assure you.
Simply Google.
The Jews later adopted Yahweh, dropped his consort and elevated him above all other deities, thus separating themselves from their Canaanite neighbours.
As for the Pentateuch, it is considered to be historical fiction by every serious scholar including historians, archaeologists etc.
And in case you would wish to refute this. Sorry, but evangelicals such as Licona, Geisler and their ilk are not serious biblical scholars. They are first and foremost, apologists.
Now, I am not saying there might not be a creator of some kind. Personally, I don’t believe this, but who can prove it one way or another? Furthermore I’m not au fait with the science of fine tuning to argue this point with the likes of Luke Barnes or Stenger.
So, to recap: The Penatateuch is historical fiction.
(The Human Genome project has kicked the Adam and Eve story into touch, by the way. You knew this surely?).
Yahweh was a Canaanite god with a consort who the Jews adopted.
So, in fact you worship a made up Canaanite deity.
And thank goodness he is made up otherwise all those disgusting stories about the conquest of Canaan etc might well be true!
Thanks! I sensed your question was an earnest inquiry to understand my religious convictions. I appreciate your sharing your religious convictions with me.
Now that we understand each other you can simply direct me to whatever “How to Demolish Every Theist” website you’re referrencing and save yourself some typing.
I am not referencing any website. I have been interested in this topic for a long time and it came as a tremendous surprise when I stumbled on evangelical christians who have a literal understanding of the bible.
Why are you suddenly hostile towards evidence?
Is it because you were unaware of the history of Yahweh?
I apologise if this is the case bu surely you would prefer to understand the facts rather than maintain a fiction.
For what its worth, I didn’t write the Ugaric texts and they were not planted. They are part of history.Yours as well as mine.
And if you can find/name a genuine scholar with an archaeological background who will state the Pentateuch is historical fact then I am very interested to read what they have to say.
From my perspective, it seems a bit petulant to now shoot the messenger, John, don’t you think?
Relax. I don’t even own a gun.
I have several friends who are genuine old Testament scholars. I’ve already forwarded your comments to them. I am in no way hostile toward new I formation. You can certainly understand that I’m not just going to assume all new information is valid.
Of course!
Are your OT scholar friends fundamentalist Christians
or secular?
I would expect nothing less. This is the first path to enlightenment so they say, yes?
But I am surprised you have not heard of the Ugaric texts before?
Also, may I ask why you elected to become a christian? ( If it’s not too personal – if so ignore it, no probs.)
Or have you considered yourself a Christian since childhood?
@JB.
I believe it is important that terminology is understood before entering into debate about it. Therefore, can you please define what you understand by the term ”religion”.
Thanks
I’m using ‘religious’ broadly to describe beliefs based on intuition rather than hard science or mathematics.
For example:
“Lethal injection causes death. ” is a factual statement.
“Child molesters should receive lethal injection.” is a religious statement.
I have received some criticism from various sources (both friend and foe) regarding my use of the term ‘religious’. The criticism is justified. I’ve confused the conversation by using this word to mean something other than its official definition. I’m willing to concede the term in favor of another.
o be clear. Are you suggesting that I could follow the music of Jimi Hendrix ”religiously”, for example? ( which I do, by the way! 🙂 )
Is this the context you are using it in rather than simply the worship of a deity and the doctrine that accompanies such deity worship? Am I understanding you correctly?
Two separate questions
Do you believe that it’s always wrong and always murder to end the life of an unborn child? How about one that’s been born?
Do you believe that it’s ever right to end the life of a human being?
It’s not polite to answer a question with a question. Your post is in question, not me.
Murder is intentionally killing an innocent human being. Unborn children are always innocent. Murder is always wrong.
Born people are killed for many reasons that don’t constitute murder. Any accidental act that results in death is not murder. Soldiers during wartime do not commit murder. Policemen returning fire do not commit murder. Housewives killing a home intruder do not commit murder.
The point I’m making is that the answers to both questions are religious, not scientific.