This is number 5 in the series listing my evidences for the existence of God.
I’m hoping for some lively discussion from some of my skeptical readers…
…especially you guys who say, “There is no evidence for God.”
I’d really like to hear from you!
Because I’m on a roll right now and I need to be taken down a peg or two!
I’ve already talked about thoughtful chemicals.
It requires someone with God-like powers to bring chemicals to life…
…and then allow those chemicals to decide how to live.
Human beings are a collection chemicals.
On December 3rd, 1979, a crowd of 7000 people stampeded into Riverfront Stadium for a “Who” concert.
11 people were killed in the rush.
26 other people were injured.
Families of those killed and injured sued the band, the promotion company and the City of Cincinnati.
People were held accountable for their decisions.
Avalanches are collections of chemicals too.
On January 10th, 1962, a big chunk of Mount Huascaran slid off and buried several small towns in Peru.
4000 people were killed.
Many of the bodies were never recovered.
Nobody sued the mountain.
Nobody sued the rocks, trees or mud that suffocated hundreds of families in their homes.
Only human chemicals are responsible for their actions.
In July, 2012, Andrew Oberle was mauled by two chimpanzees.
He standing in a restricted area when the chimps grabbed him.
He lost fingers, toes, a testicle, a chunk of scalp and almost died.
Nobody sued the chimps.
They were not required to serve jail time.
In fact, most everybody blamed the victim for being in the restricted area.
Human chemicals are responsible for their actions.
That isn’t explained by evolution.
Monkeys aren’t held responsible for mauling us.
Avalanches aren’t responsible for burying us.
Yet, somehow, people are responsible for what they do.
This is evidence that something ‘higher’ has written rules on our hearts.
God exists because without Him, we wouldn’t know right and wrong.
68 Responses
My magic forest pixies are the creators of the universe, they breathe life into chemicals, and they hold people accountable for their bad deeds after they die.
That sounds familiar.
Do you have some historical evidence?
I get my ability to reason and hold others accountable from magic forest pixies.
Thank you, John, for proving, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that magic forest pixies exist.
Yes, this is exactly what you did there.
Please define the attributes of your magic forest fairies and I’ll tell you if I agree with you.
This couple believed, “Evil is a make-believe concept…”
Then evil men killed them. The only reason decent humans care about this evil, is because God exists and has placed his moral laws on our hearts morality exists in our spirits, not our DNA.
https://bit.ly/2BhuObr
Sorry for the confusion but there was just no poetic way to say my soul was peeing its pants.
I was also going to write that the Holy Spirit must have led me to relisten to those older episodes… but … well… uhhhhh-huh. Yyyyyep.
Even I was stumped for a second by the “20 Pound Wet Diaper” part.
But then I saw the long exhale, and I was back on track.
#thanksPkarghl
John said “Thanks for telling us!”
Callback Alert! July 9th “Gorilla souls…” podcast.
You and Peaches are rock stars!!!
You complete my 20 pound wet diapered soul.
(Long. Extended. Meaningful. Exhale. Of. Love!!!). 😊
You gotta be pretty far inside to understand that reply. Thanks for paying attention, Pkarlgh!
Nope… screwed up. Also… the time-stamp is off by four hours. (I think it’s ALWAYS been that way…)
When I refreshed, the comment appeared at the bottom of the thread. I’m now replying to that comment. Maybe the comments only thread properly to JUST the first level? As soon as I reply to a reply… maybe it starts a new thread???
I’m on my desktop and hit the reply directly under your post.
All this is also true of the atheist. In case y’all missed that point.
What atheists have in common with Mormons:
There is no coherent appeal to reason or the laws of logic apart from the Revelation of God. You cannot satisfy the preconditions necessary for the intelligibility of the laws of logic apart from the triune-God of Scripture. No other worldview can provide a cogent appeal to immaterial, invariant, necessary, abstract laws like the laws of logic. As image bearers of God, we will use them and appeal to them. However, there can be no meaningful justification for these laws outside of the Revelation of God. Atheism cannot provide it and neither can Mormonism.
God’s Revelation provides the grounding for reason/laws of logic. That grounding is found in God’s own eternal nature and character. God is Spirit (and therefore immaterial – John 4:24), God cannot lie (and therefore cannot engage in contradiction – Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18), God does not change (Hebrews 13:8; James 1:17), God is omnipresent (Jeremiah 23:23-24; Proverbs 15:3), God provides the foundation for believing the laws of logic are consistent everywhere and at all times (Colossians 1:17), and the triune-God revealed in Scripture provides the foundation and answer to the ancient philosophical conflict of the “one and the many” (providing a foundation for “class concepts”, distinctions, and unity).
Trying to engage questions about truth and reason apart from the Revelation of God puts the Mormon in no better place than the militant Atheist who believes that all that exists is a material universe with nothing spiritual/immaterial and is essentially “sound and fury signifying nothing”. Again, Mormons will appeal to laws of logic because they are in the image of God and can’t live in God’s world otherwise. However, the Mormon’s degradation of Scripture and abandonment of biblical revelation as the principium forces them into incoherence along with the unbeliever. The Mormon god, who is just another part of the *material* universe, who has a god above him (with standards above him he has to obey), who is not ominpresent, who does not “hold all things together”, who changes, does not provide a foundation for a cogent justification of abstract, immaterial, unchanging entities like the laws of logic.
Since Mormons have abandoned God’s Revelation as supreme, they have also abandoned any coherence when appealing to laws of logic.
Reject God’s Word as foundational (as the Mormons do) and lose laws of logic with it.
However, the Mormon won’t stop appealing to laws of logic and reason because they can’t while living in God’s world. They will borrow from what they can only truly have in a biblical worldview all the while denying the God Who provides the foundation and meaning to those things. So when the Mormon says, “I believe we should appeal to Scripture and reason” it needs to be asked:
“How do you justify any appeal to logic and reason as a Mormon who rejects Scripture as the principium (Mormon revelation is supreme), with a god and worldview that cannot provide the foundation for those things, and who tells us that the god of Scripture is a ‘monster’ (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372)?”
I’m not sure how this take down of Mormonism is relevant to the conversation…?
PS: This does not change the status of JB’s neuroticism. 😉
A… I’m replying to your post, and no… they are not appearing under your comment. Other comments are doing the same.
See?! I knew I wasn’t neurotic!
Hit reply to this comment and let’s see what happens…
When she says more things… then maybe the words will mean something different, and the explanations will somehow become accidentally more coherent and understandable. It COULD happen. And science will prove that rational thoughts can come from irrational words without the need for a god to make sense of them.
Waffles snare rock nuggets, Bill!!
😂
the leopard is content 🙂
Yep, you did, JB. I’ve already read the whole ridiculous series of long disproved nonsense. It’s your version of this god, one that you’ve invented to hide behind, this lovely vague thing you’ve created so you don’t have to deal with the problems the god you actually claim is real presents. It’s a lot harder if you have to explain a god that can’t get its story straight, that repeatedly contradicts itself, that makes false claims, that punishes a child for the actions of its parents, and has not one shred of evidence for the supposed events that it caused.
.And hilarious that you now say that no one should believe your version. This coming from someone who says his version is the only right one. Nice excuse there, so you don’t have to try to explain why you think you are right. I would guess that the reason you need this excuse is that you know your reasons for believing wouldn’t stand up very well.
Please come back and say more things.
well, nice to see that JB is still contradicting himself and saying that he’s speaking for his god.
Nice to see Club still throwing around baseless accusations.
Round these parts, angry screeds don’t count as arguments. If you have a specific problem with something I’ve actually said, I’m happy to discuss it. If you just want to express your disdain for me, your position is duly noted.
Yep, “club” is female. But nice to see that you have nothing to rebut what I’ve said, and have reduced yourself to nothing more than name calling. Unfortunately for you, BB, everyone can make sense of our reality without your god. It happens all of the time. And hmmm, do you recall in your bible where JC says not to call people fools? When a Christian calls me a fool, I just remember what I learned as a Christian, and chuckle to see that they don’t have any more respect for their bible or supposed savior than I do.
I know plenty of things are true, including knowing that the claims of the essential events of the bible fail. We have no evidence of this supposed creation, no evidence of the flood, no evidence of the exodus, no evidence of the resurrection, etc. I know that christians don’t agree on what is the supposed truth they get from their god, or on the dates or methods of the supposed events in the bible, including what the bible “really means”. You admit that people know plenty of things without your god by your use of computers, modern medicine, modern foodstuffs, etc. The same science that supports these also supports that your religion is wrong.
As in the Word of God that was with God from the beginning.
That said, we can not know God’s wisdom directly. It must be revealed in a way we understand. “words.” And the only way we can know that the Bible (rightly and righteously understood) is absolutely true, is to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 1:17-19
The survival of the Bible is actually another proof of God, IMO.
Here! This explains what I mean better than my muddled words:
“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 2:9-16 KJV
http://bible.com/1/1co.2.9-16.kjv
We can’t know the truth of (or contained in) God’s Word without first repenting of the sin of denying the truth in unrighteousness.
The Bible is foolishness to the unbeliever. For the repentant believer who believes the Bible is the revealed Word of God, and with the help of the Holy Spirit… the believer can read the word and have Truth revealed to him. Eyes opened. Ears now hear. Spirit filled Believers can now KNOW with certainty that God is revealing truth to them.
I’ve had a busy day and just now sat down to read comments.
… I hope the leopard got something to eat. 😉
Totally agree. We need to remember that if the Bible didn’t exist, we would still all have sufficient evidence of God’s existence. The Word CONFIRMS God IS… but doesn’t prove it.
The verse in Romans is important because it confirms that God is a JUST God.
God does not send innocent, ignorant people to hell. That would be unjust. This verse (among others) confirms that even the atheist KNOWS God IS and acts accordingly in and with His creation.
We ALL will be “without excuse” when we are judged. Atheists KNOW this to be true even though they DENY THE KNOWLEDGE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. This explains why they are so … testy… when they are told they can’t be good people or that they can’t know ANYTHING is true without God.
Let’s watch as this truth is revealed. 🙂
Funny series. I tend to take the document to document as much as I can because it forces me to do a bit more reading, but I suppose that scares some people off. I know I am not brilliant, but genius is mostly perspiration.
So why is this funny? You put some ideas in a very simple form, and the unbelievers still criticize the form, not the substance. They think, because of the simplicity of the form, that criticism will be easier, not realizing until after they have failed in the attempt that the opposite is true.
One of the ways system administrators keep their servers safe from viruses and hacking is to load up their servers with the minimum software required to get the job done. The less there is on a server the easier it is to maintain a proper firewall against attack.
I appreciate your reading and commenting, CT.
When I was younger, I used to down-play brilliance in an effort to practice humility. Awhile back I realized that brilliance is an answer to prayer. For many years (starting in High School) I’ve begged God to make me wise. I’ve confessed this secret to the atheists on many occasions. I’ve told them they aren’t arguing with me. They are up against the infinite intelligence of the One who created everything. Usually, doesn’t impress them.
Thank you for noticing the simplicity of these posts. That is a great compliment. I am trying to keep the lofty philosophical language out of this series.
Club is aptly demonstrating that his denial of the knowledge of God in unrighteousness reduces him to nonsense and foolishness.
No one can make sense of our reality and what is true without recognizing the Word of God as the basis for truth, wisdom and knowledge.
He thinks himself wise but is in fact a fool. He can not KNOW that anything is true because he denies the Knowledge God granted him.
I believe Club identifies as female but I don’t want to force my reality on anyone.
Are you suggesting that we can’t know truth without the Bible? Or are you using the Word of God to mean “God’s wisdom”?
Yeah, ok… I understand what you mean but without the Bible, how do we know what reason is, or how to use it?
Reason is given by God so that we can understand the Bible. When you diminish your ability to think and reason, you are diminishing God’s gift. There is no such thing as “man’s reasoning”. All reasoning come from God. Even atheists are capable of rational thought.
The Bible contains truth. The Bible does not contain ALL truth. Demanding chapter and verse in support of every statement will lead to distorting scripture.
I didn’t have to imply anything. You pretty much said it out right, your physical faculties come before or bear more weight than the word of God. You say God’s word is useless without our ability to reason. I say our ability to reason can’t be accounted for without the source of reason, wisdom, understanding, and knowledge, that being God’s word. I wonder how much more effective we Christians would be if we just stopped arguing like atheists.
Our ability to reason comes from God, not from the Bible.
and all Mel has is the excuse of that the science have not done these things yet. They may never do so, but saying that science “can’t” do something is rather funny when everytime that this is said, it is a failure. In any case, all of these points that Mel makes doesn’t support a need for a god or the existence of a god, especially the Christian god.
always fun to watch JB insist on how great he is since no one else will. So we have this claim from JB “Yet, somehow, people are responsible for what they do.This is evidence that something ‘higher’ has written rules on our hearts. God exists because without Him, we wouldn’t know right and wrong.”
JB cannot show that it is his version of his god that doing this “writing”.
JB cannot show that responsibility requires a god, he must only insist that it does.
JB evidently can’t figure out that avalanches aren’t people.
Christians don’t agree on what these “rules” are. Now, why is this? Why do all Christians insist that only their “rules” are the “right” ones and have no more evidence for this than the other Christians who make the same claims? Why should I believe JB’s version and say not, the version of the Mormons, the Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses? It appears that what JB wants to claim as some “truth” is nothing more than his opinion.
Hi Club.
I explained what “version of God” I was using in the first post of this series. It’s not necessary for you to read that article since your comments never change.
” Why should I believe JB’s version and say not, the version of the Mormons, the Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses?”
You shouldn’t believe my version! But neither should you cower behind the ridiculous claim that there is “no evidence for any god”.
🤣😂🤣😂
Nope. Because God said as you can see from the scripture he used. BbBennett is standing on the solid foundation of God’s word! Neither he nor I would feign to attempt to put our reasoning or our ability to observe above God’s word ( I.e. His opinion of reality).
Without the ability to read and understand it, God’s word doesn’t help us. Did you mean to imply that I am not standing on the solid foundation of scripture?
Thank you!!!! Yes!!! You get it!!! JB, did you see this?
How do you know he gets it? Because you say so?
There, you see? The comment section is a mess because Ed keeps starting a new thread every time he replies. Nothing to fix, other than maybe asking him to push the reply button under your comment and not reply to the original post every time.
Hungry Leopard doesn’t know how reply works either…
It’s nice to see that you [something negative] because your god is [something else negative].
And how do you know that?
I trust my senses and my ability to reason.
Do we disagree about something?
Testing, testing… For my neurotic father…
Ah I see our point of disconnect now. I apologize. I was wrong. I’m pushing against your authority to have a premise. And respectfully, I asked the first question and you haven’t answered that either. 😉
I am standing on the authority of reason and observation. My ability to to both is given by God.
Perhaps I need to reword what I’m asking. What makes your opinion based on observation and reason more valid or more authoritative than the atheist’s? The atheist believes he’s reasoning and observing as well and thus making truth claims. So you’re making truth claims and the basis of those claims is your own observation and reason and so is the atheist. And I’m standing over here like “okay… so what?”. All you’re offering is “I said so”. Does your “say so” hold enough weight to change anyone’s minds or hearts? What exactly are you trying to do here? What’s your ultimate goal?
What you win them with is what you win them to.
No offense, but you ignored my question.
Do you want to push against my premise or push against my authority to have a premise?
How do you know your observation and reason are valid? Because you say so??
What authority would you use to doubt me?
JB, as a fellow believer, I’d like to push on your premises a little, if I may.
You made a lot of claims, most of them almost coherent. 😉 But you don’t offer any authoritative source other than yours or some other human. The atheist stands on his claims because he said then or “because science” which begs more and more questions ad infinitum. What authority are you standing on? On what are your philosophical feet planted?
I’m not sure I understand the question. These are my thoughts based on observation and reason. What authority do I need?
Hahaha!!! Do you know that?
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
Proverbs 1:7 KJV
http://bible.com/1/pro.1.7.kjv
All knowledge and wisdom comes from God. The authority and certainty that what we know is true about our reality … is true … comes once we repent of our sins and receive the Holy Spirit.
Wisdom and knowledge is then revealed to us through scripture, prayer and other ways. (Ways that are confirmed by scripture.
The Bible is basically the instruction manual for living, revealed to men by a personal, loving God. A God with a plan.
If that world view (believing that God IS) is not followed, then it is impossible for man to know that anything they know is true.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
Romans 1:18-20 KJV
http://bible.com/1/rom.1.18-20.kjv
There isn’t even knowledge without God. You can’t know that you know anything.
JB, you have officially crossed into la la land. You seem to have been confused into thinking silliness is the same as comedy.
Have a great day!
Apart from some very different chemicals from humans, a mountain is just that, a mountain.
The spark of first life on our planet has absolutely no evidence of being created by anyone or anything, especially gods or higher life forms from another planet. The absence of this knowledge does not provide evidence of anything.
Considering all the fields of science have explained everything we know about life, the Earth and the universe over the last few centuries it is a logical conclusion that science will eventually resolve this question.
Thank you for telling us!
“Considering all the fields of science have explained everything we know about life, the Earth and the universe over the last few centuries it is a logical conclusion that science will eventually resolve this question.”
Except that science cannot explain anything; it can only test and describe natural things. It cannot explain its own existence. It cannot explain why there is anything at all, why there are natural laws in the first place. It cannot explain the most important things about life, like love, intentionality, morality, consciousness, art, beauty, and many other things that are not necessary for survival. It cannot give our life meaning. It’s simply a method of inquiry within the limitation of natural laws. That’s all.
This is true which makes it irrelevant to Atheist arguments.