As Christmas descends like a meteor to blow a hole in our schedules and diets…
…a message of hope from Bart Ehrman:
“Every week I receive two or three e-mails asking me whether Jesus existed as a human being. When I started getting these e-mails, some years ago now, I thought the question was rather peculiar and I did not take it seriously. Of course, Jesus existed. Everyone knows he existed. Don’t they?
But the questions kept coming, and soon I began to wonder: Why are so many people asking? My wonder only increased when I learned that I myself was being quoted in some circles—misquoted rather—as saying that Jesus never existed. I decided to look into the matter. I discovered, to my surprise, an entire body of literature devoted to the question of whether or not there ever was a real man, Jesus.
I was surprised because I am trained as a scholar of the New Testament and early Christianity, and for thirty years I have written extensively on the historical Jesus, the Gospels, the early Christian movement, and the history of the church’s first three hundred years. Like all New Testament scholars, I have read thousands of books and articles in English and other European languages on Jesus, the New Testament, and early Christianity. But I was almost completely unaware—as are most of my colleagues in the field—of this body of skeptical literature.” – Bart Ehrman, Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth
Bart is not your typical Bible-Babbling-Baptist-Bigot.
He’s no fanboy of Christ.
Ehrman feels about Jesus the way everyone, except Patriots fans, feels about Tom Brady.
It hurts to say it, but we gotta admit that Tom Brady is a historical fact.
You can try to explain Brady out of history.
“Nobody outside of NFL statisticians and publicists ever mention Tom Brady.”
“I saw a YouTube video that said the Patriots used a No-Quarterback offense.”
“If Tom Brady is so great, why don’t Indonesian sports magazines talk about him?”
Denying the existence of Tom Brady ultimately just makes you seem stupid.
Same thing with Jesus.
…only more so.
“I am an agnostic with atheist leanings, and my life and views of the world would be approximately the same whether or not Jesus existed. My beliefs would vary little. The answer to the question of Jesus’s historical existence will not make me more or less happy, content, hopeful, likable, rich, famous, or immortal.” – Bart Ehrman, Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth
See there?
You can concede that Jesus isn’t fiction and STILL BE AN ATHEIST!
That’s just like Jesus, isn’t it?
He suffered for everyone…
…including His deniers.
And you’re free to keep denying.
Free will is another gift from God.
You can ‘make up your own mind’.
And you can make up your own history too!
Patriots fans, Bart Ehrman and Christians thank you for the laughs.
Merry Christmas!
43 Responses
“MrsMcmommy
Ah, yes, dear Mr. Bishop’s blog.
I remember now, he was the other James that banned me. If you peruse some of his earlier posts you will find the post where he states his change of heart regarding the bible.
The comments in the post you linked are more enlightening than the actual post itself.
Some are actually quite funny, especially those of the ”you were never a real Christian” ilk. This always make s me laugh.
In some respects I can understand why Murray converted: his family sounded extremely militant and to be a young kid in that sort of environment, while being almost totally surrounded by ( back then) ”God-fearin”’ conservative middle America – I presume – must have been very difficult.
Oh well, c’est la vie. Baby KiIller Yahweh, obviously needs all the help he can get I suppose.
Bah! Humbug?
John,
It just occurred to me! Tom Brady must exist.
Proof: there is a Wikipedia article about him.
Oh.. but wait… that is not such a good argument after all, since there is no article about me… which would mean that I do not exist.
I need to go find a mirror to double check. I am feeling doubtful of my own existence.
Dave
Romans 4:17 (ESV) – as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
Ha..you say Bible-Babbling-Baptist-Bigot as if that’s a bad thing!
Probably not as bad as being a Steelers fan. I’m one of those too LOL.
Not sure if that was on topic, but it was on my mind. And that is what matters.
Wally,
Yes! Mind over matter. I find myself in that place often.
Dave (who is also a “Bible-Babbling-Baptist-Bigot”, if by bigot one refers to my stance on Christ)
John 14:6 (ESV) – Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Dave.
Ha..my entire life is about mind over matter. They don’t mind, and I don’t matter. Darn it, off topic again
P.s. I share your definition of bigoted.
Here is a truly marvelous post that I stumbled across. I would like to dedicate it to the wonderful Christian Crew that hang out at the Comedy Sojourn.
And thanks to Branyan for being such a good sport.
Remember, Jesus love you.
Or he probably would have if he wasn’t dead.
Well, there’s a reasonable chance he might at least like you… maybe.
https://sphericalbullshit.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/what-i-would-say-to-creationists-if-i-was-more-of-a-dick/
It seems Ark actually posts MORE often when he’s being ignored by the blog host.
Lol.
Does your link have something to do with Jesus or Tom Brady, Ark? Or is it totally off-topic, as usual?
Oh no, Amanda totally on Topic.
It’s about Jesus all the way through.
Truly, you will love it!
Already skimmed it. The author’s about section was my personal fav, though.
Lol!
Marvelous, isn’t it?
I knew you would enjoy it.
Read the comments too.
I hosed myself laughing at the sheer weight of ignorance from some of the YEC commenters.
Priceless.
Yep. You’re right. I love when your kind are reduced to banal ad-hominem.
However, it IS off-topic.
In case anyone needs a refresher on what this post is about.^
Off topic?
I have told you before, when it comes to your god belief everything is on topic
If your god was so great he wouldn’t need little helpers like you and your dad spreading the word. And, like Tom Brady, this is why your impotent, make-believe god has to have ignorant little sheep bleating all over the place.
Or at least the institutions that conned you into believing in this deity.
Blah, blah, blah.
From the original article:
THAT’S on topic.
Who’s denying the existence of Jesus?
I already explained that position succinctly enough.
Fabulous.
Glad we agree then.
See ya next time!
Does this mean you agree with the comment I wrote pertaining to Jesus of Nazareth? Surely not?
I agree that Jesus was a historical person. That was the topic of the post. I am not interested in having the “fictional character” conversation with you again. It’s old.
So, this will be the last time I respond to you on this thread.
I also agree that there was likely someone called Yeshua.
There was NEVER anyone called Jesus.
And there was never a godman-Jesus of Nazareth as portrayed in the bible.
So, this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread.
When your shooting off your mouth canon aim a bit to the right then you eon’t shoot yourself in the foot so much.
T’ra
And you promise not to shoot me, right? Or anyone for that matter. Do you still own a gun by the way?
My brother calls my mouth a “word cannon.” And apparently I have pretty good aim.
You look at your feet a lot do you?
John and mrsmcmommy and the rest of the crew,
Here is another “must-see-TV” kind of blog post. To quote the sage Yogi Berra “It’s deja vu all over again”
https://citizentom.com/2015/02/23/why-i-banned-two-trolls-from-citizen-tom/
Dave
Jeremiah 13:23 (ESV)
Can the Ethiopian change his skin
or the leopard his spots?
Then also you can do good
who are accustomed to do evil.
Bingo.
How many of these can we find, I wonder? If we Google “banned John Zande” or “banned Arkenaten,” would we hit the jackpot?
I think I am in the lead over JZ.
These are the ones I am aware of, Amanda.
Citizen Tom
Dave (as advertised above)
UnkleE
Isaiah (something).The host is called James. He is a Young Earth Creationist, like Wally
And someone else called James ( I forget his blog title)
Oh, and Wintery Knight.
Oddly enough, James cited several of my comments regarding the Exodus as being the reason he stopped being a biblical literalist. So I consider that a win either way.
Yes, please Google, it would be fun. I am pretty sure there are a few others and I would be interested in knowing just how many have decided they have no interest in truth.and evidence.
Waitaminnit!
I do not have a blog. And if I did, I would rarely ban anyone. There would be limits, of course.
Dis the Denver Broncos, and one might find themselves permabanned. I am unsure if even the Lord would take issue with that.
Antisemitism, and racism in its other forms, would be bannable for me.
Using the word “loose” when one meant “lose” is likely bannable. It is like fingernails on a blackboard to to me, Which is odd, because fingernails on a blackboard doesn’t bother me. (or should that be “don’t bother me”? Does the negation’s antecedent refer to the fingernails, or to the whole phrase? Gonna have to look that one up.)
Posting random cat pictures on my hypothetical blog is likely bannable, unless it happened to be a post about cat pictures. Very unlikely to occur.
Comparisons of foot size are bannable. Not sure why, but I just would not tolerate it. Even I must have standards.
Foul language, in my opinion, is bannable, if my blog were about matter theological, as any intelligent person can argue against me without the use of profanity. Others are free to disagree and allow it without me passing judgement, but it add nothing to the power (or lack thereof) of the point being made. I am always more impressed when someone can insult me and my points with witty words of wisdom (alliteration intended) than with potty-mouth.
Bottom line for me is deciding whether having a particular person participating (no alliteration intended) in a blog would be profitable to the ongoing discussion. Disagreements and challenges are welcome. Wasting of time and cyberspace is not as welcomed.
And at this point in the history of the Internet (9:56 am HST on December 13th, in the Year of Our Lord 2016), I would not ban any poster I see in this blog, had I one of my own.
If one of my posts in an earlier blog hereabouts will be recalled, https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/the-jews-who-werent-there/ , I revealed how I feel about unbelievers. I am praying for youse guys and have sadness in my heart over your unbelief, not hatred and rancor.
It is still not to late for you follow Christ. Christmas would be a great time to point to and say “It was Christmas 2016 when I gave my life to the Lord and began to live for Him.”
In hope and perseverance,
Dave
Isaiah 55:6 (ESV) – Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
But how do you feel about haikus, Dave?
(*wink*)
mrsmcmommy,
Hmmm… haikus in my not-in-existence-blog…
I would have to say
Haikus are acceptable
No banning from me
Dave
Blessed Christmas to all, and may you get the Greatest Gift this year.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) – For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
That’s hilarious. Though I’d hate to see the banned from the Comedy Sojourn … as they provide tons (or tonnes for Ark) of comedy relief without ever knowing it.
~CQW
I’ve got a different philosophy for the blog comment space. I completely understand getting rid of the nuisances that are Windbag and Garfunkle. I’m sympathetic to those bloggers who want to foster actual discussions.
Contrary to the accusations, I am not the least bit ’embarrassed’ by my convictions. I will admit to being a little uncomfortable reading the trolls comments. It’s akin to watching a mortally wounded animal thrash around in the shrubs. Of course, animals learn from their mistakes and quit wandering into traffic. The trolls don’t even realize they’ve been mowed down.
If you can stomach the bloodshed, it does make for an entertaining spectacle. I’ve had my faith bolstered as well. Nothing builds confidence like consistently having your arguments stand unanswered.
No need to worry, CQW.
Our pet Atheists will always be welcome here. <3 This is literally the only place left on the internet where they can be their true, foul-mouthed, pseudo-intellectual selves.
Come home any time, Pets. We'll yell at you for peeing on the carpet, but you'll never have to sleep outside.
CQW,
I agree. I would not want to see them banned for the same reason. Plus, for every minute they spend in here, John is doing the world a service by saving other places from them.
We could be acting as cannibal trolls for them, which is a service to humanity. I, for one, have rarely engaged them after they regurgitate their cut-and-pastes from other places when they go after my on-topic posts (not that I have not not been guilty of straying…). I just take secret joy in knowing I have used some of their time and focus in vain… oh wait… it is not a secret if I say it… too late… gotta get this delete key fixed…
I wonder if I should start throwing in troll-bait comments occasionally in my replies that will be irresistible to them to pounce upon. Maybe like “More pages on the internet are devoted to faith in God than denying Him.”
Dave
Proverbs 26:4-5 (ESV)
Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest you be like him yourself.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own eyes.
Hi Dave.
Thanks for the memory jog.
I especially enjoyed the fact Tom banned me because I asked for ”EVIDENCE”.
Don’t you just hate it when non-Christians do that to you?
Ark,
I do not hate it when I am asked for evidence, by anyone, be they believer or not.
But (not to sound Clintonian) it depends on what the definition of “evidence” is. I found this one:
ev·i·dence
ˈevədəns
noun
1.
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
“the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination”
synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation
“they found evidence of his plotting”
There is a veritable plethora of information out there, and corroboration, and affirmation, and attestation, on the veracity of the claims of Christ.
In a criminal trial, some powerful evidence is eyewitness accounts. Of course, the character of the witness is considered, and what benefit the testimony will bring the witness. Some of the disciples were beaten and killed for giving continues testimony for their eyewitness accounts for Christ. If they were making this stuff up, they certainly were all in.
I encourage you to read the entirety of Scripture from beginning to end with a truly unbiased mind (as much as we humans can) going into it. If nothing else, you will have done what most believers have never done, and will then have a larger perspective for critique.
And I encourage you to post in a back-and-forth manner that makes it a discussion of the topic at hand, in a way that would make folks like me respond to what you say and wish to engage. Vitriolic character attacks and insults add naught to the debate, if debate is what you desire.
I like civil discussion, where the person presenting the argument is not the argument itself. I like addressing points raised regardless of the point-raiser. I have debated with my fellow believers here on matters of doctrine (and possible soon over choice of favorite NFL teams) without feeling that either party was disrespected. I learn things from the tête–à–tête (I copied and pasted that.. I am not looking up ASCII codes, thank you very much), even if those things are just better ways to present what I believe.
Perhaps you will never come to faith in Christ. But i would be remiss in not preaching the Gospel to you or anyone, if I truly believe as I do, that the unbeliever will spend eternity in Hell apart from Christ’s atoning work on the cross. That would be rather sick.
Dave
2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) – The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
You will have to back this statement up, Dave; for as far as I can ascertain there is not a single piece of evidence that the character Jesus of Nazareth ( as portrayed on the bible) even existed let alone made any claims whatsoever.
There are no eyewitness accounts. None whatsoever. That people may have been willing to die for their belief is nothing extraordinary and continues to this day. I don’t doubt for one second you too might be willing to die for this belief. And in some cases of devout religious conviction all you need is a passport and access to a modern passenger airliner and directions to a few tall buildings.
I read the bible from beginning to end about six years ago a short while after I began investigating Moses for a piece I was writing. My old KJV is littered with red marks as a reminder to do follow up research on the things I found interesting. I read the gospels twice and still refer to them from time to time.
Maybe if the tone of the posts, and many of the follow up comments by the hosts on this blog was not very often dripping with ridicule and sarcasm I might be tempted to tone down my invective. One has to bear in mind the host is paid as a professional comedian and thus, it is perfectly understandable why he often tries to make his posts come across as humourous.
Good for you.
And as I do not beleive in any of the stuff you beleive I would be remiss if I did not point this out to you. However, you are free to beleive whatsoever you wish, and beleive it or not (sic) I respect your right to do so.
However, I would sincerely hope that you would extend the same level of respect to children and allow them to come to faith (or not) in their own time.
Ark
There have been some surprising changes of heart over the years,
Like today’s news: Madalyn Murray’s son, William, has converted to Christianity despite his ideal, “godless” upbringing. (Madalyn was the Founder of the American Atheists.)
https://jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/12/former-atheist-william-murray-son-of-the-founder-of-american-atheists-converts-to-christianity/
Clarification: the blog post I linked is from today, but the conversation actually happened a few decades ago. 🙂
Yup, there quite likely was someone called Yeshu, a smelly little first century eschatological rabbi who got himself crucified by the Romans for sedition. Christianity was likely based on someone, so it might just as well have been such a character. Not that there is any verifiable evidence for such a person. I guess we just have take it on faith, right?
However, the biblical character that was born of a virgin, made pigs run around 8 km and jump off of a cliff, the superhero who calmed storms and walked on water, the expert viticulturist who turned water into wine, the fantabulous godman that came back from the dead, weeeell now, that is a completely different story and only an indoctrinated or very disillusioned individual with serious issues would accept such nonsense.
I’m pretty sure dear old Bart doesn’t believe such garbage anymore either.
John,
You see, the problem here is that unbelief is like a game a Jenga. You go ahead and have an unbeliever pull out one of their miniature planks. and there is a chance the whole thing comes a-tumblin down. Out of fear of unknowing which plank of admission would cause the wooden tower to fall, they fear to remove any plank at all, or even take an honest look at the planks.
Faith in Christ, however, is not a shaky wooden tower. It is a solid foundation built upon rock, made to weather the storms. Wooden vessels get shipwrecked on it. It stands the test of time, without the need of people scrambling to find new ways to defend it. Opponents, however, labor night and day trying to be creative in finding new ways to deny the truth.
But the Rock of Ages yet stands, and will stand throughout eternity.
Dave
1 Samuel 2:2 (ESV) – There is none holy like the Lord: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.
Ah, I must confess that I am a fan of the Patriots. Mainly because of Bill and Tom. I enjoy watching talent. I don’t get to watch that locally at the professional level (in football especially) while living in Ohio. But the Patriots and the Browns are good for the Christian community. Patriots fans learn to love the sinner, while Browns fans learn to love “the least of these”.
Oh, dear. I have strict orders from my husband not to fraternize with Patriots fans.
It has been good knowing you, Matthew. 🙂
Your husband is a smart man: not every one can enter the winner’s circle 😉 haha
But as I said, I mostly watch for the talent, no matter where it comes from (as long as it doesn’t come from the Steelers, Jets, or Giants- or has the name Richard Sherman lol). I’m loving what the Ohio State grad- “Zeke” Elliott is doing for the Cowboys right now.
I also love people like Sam Bradford, Russell Wilson, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, Andrew Luck, etc… Young men with good character. It’s a shame about Colt McCoy though- the Browns ruined his career. Hopefully Luck can get some help- I miss the Colts- Patriots rivalry.
We’re Hoosiers. (Go Colts!)
Ah, we always have to wait for college basketball for the Hoosiers to be relevant- although they played the top dogs in the Big Ten (in football) hard this year.
Go Buckeyes! ( college sports are more likable anyways).