But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thess 2:13
A few years back there was a tragic story in the headlines about a couple in Canada who starved their diabetic son to death.
An inexcusable crime to be sure.
A tragedy.
And absolute confirmation that Canadians are despicably evil.
Right?
I mean, this took place in Calgary.
Calgary is in Canada.
Therefore, Canadians are evil criminals.
There is a flaw in this logic, of course.
I’m writing this in case somebody gets the idea to write a similar post condemning Christianity.
“Nobody would be that stupid, John!”
Maybe not. But just in case…
Just in case one of the bloggers I follow alerts me to an activity on a blog I no longer read…
Just in case
The line from the story is:
“The day the Alexandru died, the family went to church and said that the boy had died, but that God had resurrected him.”
And it’s possible that some nit-wit, bigoted, moronic blogger might say:
“Christian Parents, please I beg of you, don’t take the bible at its Word.”
I know. I know.
The stupidity of this thinking is on par with the reasoning that you should starve a child.
New Testament Christianity offers no basis for harming anyone for any reason.
Jesus said it would be better that you not be born than to lead a child astray.
But, just in case there exists somebody with a blog and the reasoning skills of an ice tray…
…I’m writing this article.
Because if the line had read:
“The day Alexandru died, the family went to Wal-Mart and said that the boy had died, but that the Prime Minister had resurrected him.”
Would it make sense to write a post about the dangers of retail and government?
“Christian Parents, please I beg of you, don’t shop at Wal-Mart or vote for Prime Ministers.”
Again —
It’s unlikely that anyone is stupid enough to link Christianity with the behavior of this deranged couple.
But just in case…
Have A Nice Day!
483 Responses
“…From my more knowledge of biblical doctrine and teaching, from my more years of Christian experience than you and my more years of life experience than you. You are just wrong, and [you’re refusing] to be corrected by someone who knows a lot more about the Bible, christian life and real life…” –KIA
https://culturesatwar.wordpress.com/2016/10/06/the-slavery-post/comment-page-1/#comment-557
https://debunkingdenialism.com/2017/02/27/extremist-quacks-get-life-sentences-for-murdering-their-diabetic-son/
Updated my post to include the information you asked for on the parents faith tradition. Yes, they are Christian. Romanian petacostal church. This other article is far more detailed than the original one I pasted from for my post.
-kia
@Branyan
How odd then that you are Christian.
Hey, when KIA says someone is or is not a Christian, you better listen. He used to think he knew it all…and now he ACTUALLY does.
Direct quote:
Again, this is a man who claims HE ISN’T a Christian any more…telling others how to be better ones… LOL!
(link) https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/comment-page-1/#comment-5182
KIA:
(Something tells me he didn’t mean I should be keeping my kids home from the doctor. Poor, conflicted Pastor Mike.)
More notes on how to be a Christian, from the alleged “recovering” know-it-all:
“…as a Christian, a biblically consistent and honest one anyway, one cannot accept evolution and still accept the Bible in any literal way as explanation for the way reality actually is.”
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/evolution-wont-send-you-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-10478
I wonder if Violet believes you have been taken to the cleaners? From my observations she started out bad and devolved into outright embarrassing.
Yes. But you are being “mean” when you say that.
Mean I can take although I think my statement about her performance was an objective assessment of the facts.
In any case, I’ve read a dozen or so articles on this case and most of them don’t go into much detail on the religious aspect of it at all.
I think that in order to do a truly objective piece about the religious implications, one would have to write about the church, their pastor, and what specifically was taught to the parishioners. If the church is indeed culpable here, is there any kind of investigation going on? Are there more children in danger? Have any others died already?
Really, this whole thing reminds me of frantically using Google to find a Tea Party, Republican, racism, NRA, Christian angle every time a bad news story hits the news.
If one is an anti-theist who is hell bent of making religion out to be evil, there is always a way. Not always an honest way but always a way that can be exploited by people who are quick to assume and slow to think.
There is one line in the news story that mentions “God”. One line.
For all we know, it was the church people that turned the couple over to the authorities! There is just no basis for making any definite statements about this family’s religious views.
And, in case Tildeb read this far…I still say all Canadians are evil.
The Terrible Truth about Godlessness (Atheism).
As ex-atheist Theodore Beale puts it:
“Apparently it was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists.”
You said upthread that Violet believes she calls the shots. While she might think that is the case, I think a read of comments following the post Mike wrote that inspired this post tells a different tale.
Here is a paraphrase:
Ark: “Hey Mike, here is a comment I left over at Branyan’s blog.”
Mike: “Thanks boss, I’ll be over right after work to check it out.”
LOL! Wait, is this sarcasm?
Or did that conversation really take place?
Yet the good pastor Mike is strangely silent.
That was a paraphrase but the conversation actually happened. Ark says “Jump!” and Mike his stooge says, “How high sir?’
Check the link for yourself before Mike does his monthly blog flush.
Ark came over here just a couple days ago and said to Violet, “Miss V. you’re doing a great job!”
But she didn’t feel patronized because he used a “winkey face” emoji. Or something.
Also, someone sent a screen shot to me, where Ark told her: “You were excellent on Branyan’s blog, and you had that whiny little beach on the back foot trying…” (The whiny little beach would be me.) 🙂 He encouraged Violet to “take her to the cleaners.”
*snickers*
Robert… oh robert… I call just about everybody Boss. Nice try though
So. A child suffers terribly and eventually dies under the care of religious parents who use their religious beliefs as a justification. This child’s death is not an isolated incident but one of many. KIA posts a plea for religious parents to stop using religious belief to guide their medical care of children. The Branyans think KIA and his post are equivalent to claiming the parent’s nationality is as much to blame as anything else and so the plea is completely and utterly stupid and misguided and disconnected from reality.
Think about that. Is the death of this child actually linked to religious belief as it is to the nationality of those responsible?
Thousands upon thousands of children are mistreated, abused, caused to suffer incredible and treatable conditions because their parents think this is more respectful of some god to do so and seeking alternative medical treatment somehow less respectful. I have made a very short list upthread, all of which were defended in court by the religious belief defense It is a demonstrated link. When criminally charged, these parents continue to believe that their religious beliefs should trump their children’s health and welfare. The Branyans and their ilk are good with this and hold people like KIA as more of a problem because he no longer holds the same value as they do, that religious belief is a justified defense to cause harm and suffering and even death on children under their care.
Think about that example of ‘objective’ morality in action – a morality of a higher stature, mind you – that they claim they have received from their god
These parents privilege their religious beliefs to be of greater concern and care than the health of their children.
Seriously.
Criminal law in most states privilege their right to do so and greatly mitigate sentencing if they are found criminally liable… like killing children, for example. These parents aren’t crazy to kill, maim, and harm their children through neglect, abuse, allowing untreated suffering to continue even in the face of available and mitigating medical treatment; in fact, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual V used by healthcare providers to diagnose conditions also makes a special exemption for exactly the same symptoms that indicate mental dysfunction if the person is not religiously motivated to have the identical symptoms! Crazy if crazy, but not crazy if religiously crazy.
Think about that.
So, why might people like the Branyans and their ilk argue this way?
Well, if the parents who harm, maim, and kill their kids for religious reasons believe they are pious for doing so, then what possible argument could people like the Branyans and their ilk offer that doesn’t undermine their own reasons for holding their own batshit crazy religious beliefs as pious?
You see the problem. You see the rational bind people like the Branyans face when reality smacks them upside the head; that one simply cannot condemn parents for harming their kids in the name of their religious belief because to do so undermines their own justifications for believing batshit crazy ideas.
Think about that.
People like the Branyans who borrow their twisted morality from their religious beliefs and do not own responsibility for their actions done its name (but place it somewhere with some objectively moral law giver) have to then rationalize that it’s okay to harm, maim, and kill children as long as it’s pious. And harming and maiming and killing children isn’t as morally concerning as not believing in their Moral Law Giver!
Too funny… if weren’t so pathetically sad.
That’s really what they’re doing, justifying the unjustifiable and calling it ‘moral’. But rather than shoulder the burden to be responsible and autonomous adults for their own actions and the consequences they produce, they get busy vilifying people like KIA who ask what should be a pretty simple request: please don’t hurt kids in the name of your religious belief.
Oh, what an amoral heathen. Not like the Branyans and their ilk.
Good grief.
Let me summarize for the readers who don’t have time to wade through your blather.
“The Branyans all suck.”
There you go, Dear Leader.
Well, I don’t know if I’d agree with you that they all suck. Haven’t met other than you two. But it doesn’t give one hope for a different opinion, now does it?
You won’t like my entire family, Pastor. We all ask questions and point out stupid ideas.
I’m surprised you actually showed up to double down on your awful piece of writing. I was starting to think you had developed a brain stem. Since you seem to be in the midst of an unusually long demonstration of your complete lack of self-awareness, I’d like to take this opportunity to let our new readers see your cowardice by asking you a question.
How do you know the Raditas family were Christians?
They said so, just as you and Amanda have. But they actually applied the scripture
Where did they say so?
There is no reference in the news story to Christianity.
Did they not go to church the day their son died?
According to the news article, yes.
But the article doesn’t identify the church and the word ‘Christian’ is not uttered by the family.
Just tell my dad how you interviewed the Raditas in prison and got the whole story!
Go ahead, Pastor.
I sense a ‘Have A Nice Day’ is coming soon…The Recurring Know It All will slink back to his blog so Violet can dab his forehead with a towel because that’s sometimes the morally correct thing to do.
He HAS TO duck out soon, right???
What else is he going to say???
He’s badgering Wally.
He thinks I don’t know.
Badger him back!
He either needs to admit he took advantage of a child starvation case to jump to conclusions, or he needs to disappear.
Is it time to send KIA to the playpen too?
No, he’s still staying on topic, sort of. I’d like people to see his dishonesty awhile longer.
Hello….?
Now would be a good time to prove that I’m wrong and you’re not a useless coward by admitting that you unfairly represented Christianity in your blog post.
I imagine we’d have quite a family get together, the Branyans and my family
Good grief is right! I had to scroll forever, just to get to the bottom of this, so I could leave a comment telling you to show some restraint!
Hey, Tildeb, is Ted Bundy’s education in Naturalism to blame for his murderous ways?
He said it was.
Nobody considers these people a ‘religious family’ except the raging anti-theists. Somebody should tell Dear Leader that Pastor Mike didn’t even show up to support his thesis.
Do you want to bet this one gets ‘purged’ at the end of the month?
I’m going to put together a list similar to Tildeb’s, of all the victims of Naturalist philosophy.
Here’s Jeffrey Dahmer.
“If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…”
Do what you want but you know he’s going to say there’s no ‘link’ between Ted Bundy’s philosophy and Ted Bundy’s brutality. The Dear Leader understands the whole of reality.
I would LOVE for him to tell me there’s not a link. Every time he demonstrates his inconsistency, I smile.
Here’s Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, a Russian historian who spent time in a prison camp for criticizing Stalin:
Actually JB, I did a post earlier that announced the end of the monthly Purge.;)
This is a good comment but knowing that correlation does not necessarily equal causation, the common sense reply would be to state that Bundy’s education in naturalism did not necessarily cause him to become a serial killer.
Same thing could, just as obviously, be said of the family mentioned in the post.
I think the missing factor here is evil or some sort of mental deficiency.
How many hundreds of millions of Christians are living on Earth right now? Of those, how many of them are responsible for the death of a family member because they withheld medical care because the Bible told them to? How many Christians seek medical care regularly? How many hospitals have a religious affiliation?
Atheists on this blog seem to use the same tactic liberals use when they argue against something they don’t like. For example: When someone gets murdered, the immediate response is that guns are evil and have to go.
Totally agree. The process of becoming a murderer isn’t as simple as their education. (They also have to fully accept the philosophy they were given, have motivation to kill, have opportunity, etc.) Correlation does not equal causation! 🙂
But, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If they want to think in black-and-white terms, okay. Let’s play that game.
Robert, you say “Bundy’s education in naturalism did not necessarily cause him to become a serial killer. Same thing could, just as obviously, be said of the family mentioned in the post.”
No, that’s not true (presuming there is even such a thing as an education in naturalism).
The list I provided was of convictions where the defense used religious belief as the cause of the criminal action. Get that straight? The DEFENSE used religious belief. The parents’ legal defense was that they did what they did BECAUSE of their religious belief. The religious belief was the cause of their action. That’s the line of defense these killers of their children took. It’s not an esoteric link a few misguided atheists assume; it’s the cause claimed and demonstrated in court by the perpetrators themselves. Bundy did no such thing and there is no evidence that indicates an education that respected reality was somehow causal to him killing and eating people. That’s why Branyan’s analogy to link to the nationality of the killers as if equally causal is so stupid it is truly remarkable that even his daughter didn’t step in to correct the obvious and ludicrous blunder. And she’s hardly the brightest bulb here.
Now here’s the point none of you apologists seem willing to admit: the killer’s reasons were as legitimately informed by the religious beliefs they learned from scripture as yours are. You just don’t like these particular results… and so try to distance yourself from them by claiming these kinds of people have misguided religious beliefs whereas others have properly guided religious beliefs. The problem is – and the central criticism of religious belief in general – that there is no means to differentiate the guided from the misguided. (The non religious can used affect and come to the remarkably astute observation without an ‘objective moral law giver’ that harming children in the name of piety is not nice, not wise, not virtuous because the reciprocal effect can be determined to be unwanted for cause). That problem of being unable to differentiate the divinely guided moral law from really shitty behaviour in the name of piety is owned by those who accommodate religious beliefs as if fine and dandy and pretend they are not fundamentally batshit crazy causing real harm to real people in real life each and every day.
Kind of like the defense uses “insanity” to argue criminals couldn’t help themselves all the time?
You remember this post about Clarence Darrow, right?
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/23/inherit-the-wind-forfeit-your-soul
“I know, Your Honor, that every atom of life in all this universe is bound up together. I know that a pebble cannot be thrown into the ocean without disturbing every drop of water in the sea. I know that every life is inextricably mixed and woven with every other life. I know that every influence, conscious and unconscious, acts and reacts on every living organism, and that no one can fix the blame.” –Atheist reasoning. It’s not their fault!
That one may not be in a position to actively do anything for various reason does not mean one cannot express sorrow or outrage at such tragedies, in the same way one can express such emotions when hearing about war atrocities or any form of abuse.
And by expressing these emotions on the internet at least draws attention to the vile practices religion has always invited.
That you will always leap to the defense of your faith without ever acknowledging the very real dangers of what it can do and is already guilty of is a clear indication that you already know how religion poisons … everything.
Is it any wonder Catholic Priests have been hidden and harboured almost for ever, it seems?
You are simply tacitly defending the indefensible.
Which is something we have come to expect from you.
You are a past master.
Is there a direct link between being Canadian and abusing this child?
No, You’d have to be a dolt to think your line of reasoning is equivalent.
But there IS a direct link between religious belief and great harm to children. Here a few of the direct deaths caused by the parents’ religious beliefs that resulted in prison term convictions:
Christian Science Children: Seth Ian Glaser, 17 months, h-flu meningitis
Natalie Rippberger, 8 months, h-flu meningitis
Shauntay Walker, age 4, h-flu meningitis.
Amy Hermanson, age 7, untreated juvenile onset diabetes
Ian Lundman, age 11, untreated juvenile onset diabetes
Ian Burdick, age 15, diabetes without medical care
Robyn Twitchell, age 2, a bowel obstruction
Elizabeth Ashley King, age 12, untreated bone cancer
Kimberly Sartore, age 1, untreated meningitis
Matthew Swan, 16 months, h-flu meningitis
Lisa Sheridan, age 5, pneumonia without medical care
Clayton Scott Zimmern, age 9, injuries sustained when he was struck by a car and parents refused medical treatment
Michael Schram, age 12, ruptured appendix after several days of prayer and “spiritual healing
Ronald Rowan, age 11, extreme dehydration and ultimately aspiration asphyxiation.from flu
Andrew Pinkham, age 3, pneumonia without medical care
Kris Ann Lewis, age 13, bone cancer and refusal of treatment by parents
Debra Ann Kupsch, age 9. untreated diphtheria
The Faith Tabernacle Congregational: Justin Barnhart, age 2, from a Wilm’s tumor which grew larger than a volleyball in the child’s abdomen
Baby Girl and Baby Boy Still, parents refusal to have medical care after premature birth,
Melinda Sue Friedenbeger, age 18 weeks, died of starvation and dehydration
Clayton Nixon, age 8, dehydration and malnutrition after ear infection
In early 1991, six children died in the Philadelphia area of measles.
End Time Ministries: Michael David Boehmer, four days old, untreated pulmonary hemorrhage
Libby Cooke, four days old, premature lungs untreated
Infant McDowell was born dead after mother was forced to endure more than 3 days of labor
Infant Ruzicka was born dead after mother was forced to endure 4 days of labor
Sarah Handy, born prematurely eventually succumbed to bacterial pneumonia
Church of the First Born:
Jason Lockhart, age 9, from an untreated ruptured appendix
Desiree Camren, age 3, after a week’s illness due to lack of medical care.
Angela Sweet, age 7, of peritonitis, seven weeks after rupturing her appendix
Travis Drake, age 14, from a ruptured appendix
Lukas Long, a newborn baby, untreated breathing problems
Saundra Arnold, age 13, after being ill 18 days with an intestinal blockage
Jordan Northrup, age 4 months, of meningitis and pneumonia
Faith Assembly
Juliana Keys, 6 months, an untreated abdominal infection caused by a twisted bowel.
Joel Romine, 20 months, of emphysema, a complication of pneumonia
John David Ricks, 5 months, untreated bacterial meningitis
Sean Woodrun, 6 months, untreated bronchial pneumonia
Allyson Bergmann, 9 months, untreated meningitis
Carla Northrup, a baby girl, pneumonia
Joel Winkelman, 3 weeks old, pneumonia
And the list goes on and on and on…. involving thousands upon thousands of cases of child abuse and neglect caused by the parent’s religious beliefs but settled through plea bargaining, stern warnings, suspended sentences, and so on.
There is a causal link, JB, between religious beliefs and the very real suffering and even deaths of real children in real life.
Very good, Dear Leader!
So are we agreed that it is ALWAYS wrong to starve someone to death?
If so, please help Violet understand this.
That moment when an Atheist shares a list of deceased children, which he has been working on for who-knows-how-long, and another Atheist “likes” the comment. :/
I mean, nobody really LIKES when kids die… but, if they’re going to die, it’s nice when they have parents who are religious. #PlusSide
This gives the godless an excuse to justify their hatred for all religions: first, pretend to care about the victims of deluded, immoral thinking…but ONLY when the criminals are religious.
Tildeb, I’m going to copy and paste your list here into my post.
Meanwhile, when can we look forward to your post warning Atheists not to be THIS KIND of Atheist? (Link) http://www.thomism.org/atheism/atheist_murderers.html
Could be… I’ll check it out, but I’m not atheist to be calling out atheists. I was Christian so I call out Christians primarily.
Oh, formerly identifying as a Christian gives you the ability to “call out” Christians? (Even if their beliefs are completely different from the ones you used to hold?)
Interesting.
You’re out of your depth.
Not used to being questioned, Pastor?
Was that part of the whacko, Fundamentalist rules you used to follow?
Does the fact that you used to call yourself a Christian mean you get to “call out” anyone else who calls him/herself a Christian, for the rest of your life? Yes or no.
Questioned ? No. I’m used to that. But I prefer intelligent and respectful discussions. You are ill equipped.
Right.
So, yes, you think you can “call out” Christians generally, for something one couple who called themselves Christians did.
Well, all of us are glad you got out of that backward cult you used to belong to. If THAT’s where you learned your “literal, Word-of-God” interpretation, which encouraged you not to seek medical attention, I’m glad you escaped!
There’s nothing worse than a black-and-white thinker, having a holy book read to him in the most outrageous way possible. He’ll run with it!
So Amanda, when Jesus tells the disciples that they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover… that they will cast out demons by his name… that he will rise from the dead after three days….
Black and white thinking says “yup, all true”
What says you? How can you trust anything the bible says if you are the one that decides what is and is not REALLY the word of God?
Doesn’t that make you with your fuzzy thinking and interpretation the arbiter of what God really said?
Either it’s all true or its not. If you can’t trust the black and white to be black and white… can you even trust your fuzzy or gray thinking?
Doesn’t sound like you really understand what it means to be a Christian, to accept the Bible as gods word.
Sounds like you’re not even a believer.
EXACTLY spoken like a fundamentalist! Very good!
You’re looking for “God’s Word” to be a flow chart of what to do in each and every circumstance, throughout history. That’s the kind of thinking that causes people to assume Jesus said, “If you take your child to the doctor, you’re disobeying me” or something. Again–I’m glad you don’t revere the Bible anymore. You’ve admitted to everyone that you’re the type who would let a kid die.
Sad.
Out of curiosity, did you stand outside with your mouth open, waiting for manna to be dropped into your throat, too? The Bible says God will supply ALL of your needs, right?
LOL! Poor Fundy.
You’re not a Christian either. You think you are, but you aren’t
Hahahaha!!!
Exactly. You still think you know exactly what a Christian has to be, even though you no longer are one.
Preach it, Pastor!
The couple did not identify as Christians. That is why KIA was so outrageously out of line.
You’re kidding!
I wonder why KIA didn’t correct me when I said that… An oversight, I’m sure.
The Raditas were members of the Romanian Pentecostal Church. That’s Baptists foir those of you who might not consider them real Christians. They ‘believed’ doctors in BC who saved his life after years of gross mistreatment caused Alex’s diabetes by giving him insulin!
Seriously.
Just how ignorant does one have to be to rationalize away this kind of thinking? Oh right… those who continue to believe faith-based belief is both moral and revelatory!
Ah, the power of faith-based belief to fully immerse one’s self in delusion and ignorance and think it pious… even if some kids – children who may be loved but not quite as much as loving one’s religious beliefs first – have to die horribly to pay this price. Oh well. So what?
Thanks, Dear Leader
…and how do YOU know all of this?
(I’m not in the habit of taking everything on faith.)
You should look up the history of Romanian Pentecostalism! Even if they identify with that cult, the wiki says they identified as Baptists to skirt around Romania’s “Cult Act.”
They were denied registration as an official religion multiple times before that.
No way in the world KIA knows any of that.
No way in the world Tildeb cares about any of that.
I’d like for one of them to explain to me the part of “God’s Word” which says not to feed a kid. Hopefully their mind reading powers aren’t giving out yet…
Of course, being Canadian and having lived in BC, I have many sources about the goings on in Canada. Did you know, for example, that another of their children also died? I don’t know anything about that death because it wasn’t a court case I knew anything about. Religious folk and abusing their kids always seem to be in the news, so nothing special about Christianity and abused children as far as I can tell… other than Christianity is by far the most commonly held one. But off the top of my head and in the past… oh, say six months, we have kids harmed all the time by all kinds of Christian, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Mennonite, in the name of their particular brand of faith-based religious belief. But two dead kids from the same family? it makes you wonder about this couple and the church members that supported them, doesn’t it? We seem to have a disproportionate number of crazy religious people from BC, but the ones that make the news are the real deal… full of piety while sanctimoniously causing a lot of real harm to real people in the name of their imaginary gods and getting their children to suffer on behalf of their religious beliefs to show their commitment to Him (it’s always a ‘him’, have you noticed?). Some religions are better at harming kids than others… the Catholics here are especially good at it but if it’s religious, hey… thousands of abused and neglected and even dead kids is such a tiny insignificant price, am I right? Piety is very expensive to the health and welfare of children, but it’s nice to see those follow their moral law giver have no problem not just committing these acts of harm but gathering in a religious circle to defend their faith-based beliefs against anyone who might criticize them for being such abusers, for supporting such ongoing abuse, for excusing and apologizing even the most extreme cases. Yup, it’s always more important to think piety outweighs harm. That way, you can avoid the uncomfortable truth that you are part of this problem.
Religious people commit crimes, it’s because of their beliefs.
Non-religious people commit crimes, it has nothing to do with their beliefs.
Now–repeat this over and over and over, until Tildeb’s glaring double standard seems reasonable.
(If necessary, say the word “link.” It helps the medicine go down.)
I haven’t killed any kids.
Rave on, Dear Leader.
Sure about that, John?
Yeah.
And something else I learned from you heathens –
It isn’t always wrong to kill kids!
Sometimes, it’s the right thing to do.
No wonder you’re upset. This family should have identified as atheists!
@James
There are several odd things about this case, but maybe they were addressed at some point ?
Why were the parents deemed fit to have the child returned to their custody after the first incident?
Why were their religious beliefs not fully scrutinized?
And to address James’ comment directly.
Why do Christians embark on prayer for many sick people when studies of the effectiveness of prayer have demonstrated that they have no positive effect, and when certain patients are aware they are being prayed for the action often produces negative results?
The major study conducted by the Templeton Foundation showed this.
Exorcism is another insane (sic) practice.
If you have people believing in prayer and being told to pray every week by pastors, ministers and priests; being promised that faith in Jesus is the answer, is it any real surprise when every now and then something like this happens and it is revealed that the perpetrators are devout religious people?
Of course mainstream Christians will immediately distance themselves from such a tragedy and claim that proper Christians are
not like this – and of course most aren’t.
And yet, what does this then say about their faith-claims and all the prayers offered up for illness and other such things?
Are they simply wishful thinking? Or are they gross hypocrites from church leaders to the bums in the pews?
Either faith and prayer work …or they don’t.
Evidence shows they don’t. So why do those in positions of authority in the Christian religion continue to encourage such practices?
Mike’s post was spot on, and Branyan’s retort is yet another glaring example of the rampant hypocrisy within religion. And the danger of putting life on the line, and worse, someone else’s life who one was supposed to care for, for the sake of superstitious garbage.
Ark… Et al
I suspect that the authorities returned the child to the parents because they were afraid of being called religious bigots and charged with interfering with the family’s free exercise of their Christian faith, cultic (fundamentalist/strictly consistent with the biblical text) though it may be.
John,
The reason that this story is so sad is that a child who could have lived and thrived was not given the care he needed, and he died.
In the eyes of most people, be they believers or not, the parents acted evilly. Of course, that means there must be such a thing as evil. Otherwise, the acts of the parents were just random chemical occurrences that resulted in the termination of life.
It is the inherent indwelling of the knowledge of the sanctity of life that prompts us to respond as we do to stories like this one.
If it were the common practice of believers to rely on faith without doctors, then we would join those deluded few who would say, “if they only had more faith…”
But we don’t talk or think that way. We mourn for the loss of life and agree that the parents deserve punishment for what they did. We know that God is not pleased with the parents’ decision to deny their child medical care.
Dave
Mark 2:17 (ESV) – And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Or maybe they simply thought they were being devout?
Exactly ark. That was the point of my post. Even if they were NOT being devout, they THOUGHT they were being devout. Motivated by their understanding and interpretation of what the Bible said about Faith, Healing and medical care.
Contrary to what JB, Wally, James and the rest are prepared to admit, there are sections of Scripture that are just waiting for real world application with very real world consequences if Christian Parents are so inclined and motivated by their Faith tradition.
My post was a plea NOT to take the bible as gods word and not to gamble with the children’s lives to show their Faithfulness to what they believe about the power of Faith and Prayer.
“Nothing fails like Prayer”
Careful, Dave! Ark is out of his corner and trying to engage with you in the living room, where the grownups are talking.
Make sure you put him back in his playpen, if you’re going to respond. 😉
Hey … it’s the sulky gunslinger!
Mrsmcmommy,
I noticed that. Heh.
But there is nothing to respond to. He said “maybe they thought…”
My mind reading skills are rusty, so my take is that the parents were acting evilly with full knowledge that God was not pleased. At all, they were not just neglecting him medically. They were *starving* him. I can’t find Scripture to back up that action, unless they think the kid was refusing to work… (A jest, for those who might try to create faux outrage).
Matthew 15:32 – (ESV) – Then Jesus called his disciples to him and said, “I have compassion on the crowd because they have been with me now three days and have nothing to eat. And I am unwilling to send them away hungry, lest they faint on the way.”
Why are you belcowning yourself to defend Mike, Violet?
Except for a few outliers, Christians know that there is nothing unbiblical about going to a doctor, you know that and Mike (the former minister) knows it too. His post was cheap, insulting, and indefensible.
There are some Christians who believe that seeking medical attention is demonstrating a lack of faith in God. In the Word-Faith movement, consulting a doctor is often considered a lack of faith that will actually prevent God from healing you. In groups such as Christian Science, seeking the help of physicians is sometimes viewed as a barrier to using the spiritual energy God has given us to heal ourselves. The logic of these viewpoints is sorely lacking. If your car is damaged, do you take it to a mechanic or wait for God to perform a miracle and heal your car? If the plumbing in your house bursts, do you wait for God to plug the leak, or do you call a plumber? God is just as capable of repairing a car or fixing the plumbing as He is of healing our bodies. The fact that God can and does perform miracles of healing does not mean we should always expect a miracle instead of seeking the help of individuals who possess the knowledge and skill to assist us.
Physicians are referred to about a dozen times in the Bible. The only verse that could be taken out of context to teach that one should not go to physicians would be 2 Chronicles 16:12. “In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa was afflicted with a disease in his feet. Though his disease was severe, even in his illness he did not seek help from the LORD, but only from the physicians.” The issue was not that Asa consulted physicians, but that “he did not seek help from the LORD.” Even when visiting a doctor, our ultimate faith is to be in God, not the doctor.
There are many verses that speak of using “medical treatments” such as applying bandages (Isaiah 1:6), oil (James 5:14), oil and wine (Luke 10:34), leaves (Ezekiel 47:12), wine (1 Timothy 5:23), and salves, particularly the “balm of Gilead” (Jeremiah 8:22). Also, Luke, the author of Acts and the Gospel of Luke, is referred to by Paul as “the beloved physician” (Colossians 4:14).
Mark 5:25-30 relates the story of a woman who had trouble with continual bleeding, a problem that physicians could not heal even though she had been to many of them and had spent all of her money. Coming to Jesus, she thought that if she but touched the hem of His garment, she would be healed; she did touch His hem, and she was healed. Jesus, in answering the Pharisees as to why He spent time with sinners, said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick” (Matthew 9:12). From these verses one might sift out the following principles:
1) Physicians are not God and should not be viewed as such. They can sometimes help, but there will be other times when all they will accomplish is the removal of money.
2) Seeking physicians and using “earthly” remedies are not condemned in Scripture. In fact, medical treatments are viewed favorably.
3) God’s intervention in any physical difficulty should be sought (James 4:2; 5:13). He does not promise that He will answer the way we will always want (Isaiah 55:8-9), but we have the assurance that all He does will be done in love and thus in our best interest (Psalm 145:8-9).
So, should Christians go to doctors? God created us as intelligent beings and gave us the ability to create medicines and learn how to repair our bodies. There is nothing wrong with applying this knowledge and ability towards physical healing. Doctors can be viewed as God’s gift to us, a means through which God brings healing and recovery. At the same time, our ultimate faith and trust is to be in God, not in doctors or medicine. As with all difficult decisions, we should seek God who promises to give us wisdom when we ask for it (James 1:5).
So-called “earthly” remedies are precisely the miracle many people are praying for. Everything in the Universe belongs to God. When we use the minds he gave us, to manipulate the elements he left for us, to employ the technology that he allows us to discover, we bring glory to him.
It’s all miraculous.
And–yes–THAT is mainstream Christian teaching. I’ve sat through lots of church services and never heard a pastor say, “Don’t go to the doctor.” (I’ve never heard a Canadian say that either, for that matter.) 🙂 For Pastor Mike to pretend this is a widespread “Christian” issue is pure dishonesty.
Something that occurs to me reading the posts of theists is the undercurrent of agreement.
We haven’t held a meeting to arrive at a consensus. We don’t email each other to get our stories straight. Your comment could have been written by any Christian. It is objective truth.
This is further evidence of a wisdom that transcends individual experience.
That’s because Christian teaching and beliefs are easily accessible to everyone and easy to understand by most.
Makes me wonder where our dissenters get the cartoon version of Christianity they seem to hate so much.
https://www.amazon.com/Delusion-Dawkins-Richard-first-Hardcover/dp/B00BR9XBIG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488491885&sr=8-2&keywords=the+god+delusion+by+richard+dawkins
Ah yes, they do have their Bible, don’t they. A wonderfully thought provoking and insightful work.
“Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God’s approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment?
That’s not morality, that’s just sucking up, apple-polishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base thought.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
The thing is, and I probably need to repent for this, it’s hilarious to me when the heathen rail at us for ‘blindly swallowing’ doctrine from our ‘enlightened holy men’. Visit Dawkins website sometime. He sells more indulgences than the Catholic Church and his ‘celebrity status’ puts Joel Osteen to shame. Dawkins commentary on Theology is as useful as my commentary on nuclear physics.
Richard Dawkins and his ideas about Theology are akin to that of a primary school child to that of a University graduate. Really, his fundamental error is that he has stepped over from science to Theology, thus he is dealing with Theological issues which countless people have proved he is not capable of doing.
Cool, I guess, if you’re appealing almost exclusively to uncritical devotees.
I also wonder why he terrorizes kids with nilistic pessimism.
“A foreign publisher of my first book confessed the he could not sleep for three nights after reading it, so troubled was he by what he saw as its cold, bleak message. Others have asked me how I can bear to get up in the mornings. A teacher from a distant country wrote to me reproachfully that a pupil had come to him in tears after reading the same book, because it had persuaded her that life was empty and purposeless. He advised her not to show the book to any of her friends, for fear of contaminating them with the same nihilistic pessimism.”
Richard Dawkins Unweaving the Rainbow (London: Allen Lane / The Penguin Press, 1998)
Terrorizing? That’s laugh out loud funny coming from someone who thinks eternal torment is justifiable… because God. I see that an understanding of irony is not your strong suit.
Every time Tildeb shows up, it’s a little glimpse of that torment…
See, it’s not literal fire and a cage that makes Hell awful. It’s the company! Everyone there is self-righteous and bitter, just like you, Tildeb. :/ It’s simply a trajectory–a continuation of the Hell you’ve already built, inside that muddled, angry mind of yours.
…you have the choice to change it now. Or, just keep heading in the exact, same direction, defining and insisting upon your own reality. There are many Theologians who argue that you won’t even realize when you get there, because there will be nothing rational left of you at that point. (Rationality belongs to God.)
Anyway, I doubt it will be “laugh-out-loud” funny. It’s sad enough just seeing that little example, every time you lost, blathering Atheists say nothing, from your soapbox in the void.
The same place we find the ‘cartoon version’ of its product: in the real world where a child like so many other children is now dead after years of terrible suffering because the parents thought they were upholding your God’s Moral Law.
The New Testament is quite clear about what faith can do in terms of health. The fact that most Christians continue to use doctors tells us a lot about what ‘faith’ can do for them.
But unfortunately, there are some still people who trust their faith more than doctors – and you can’t remove these passages from the Bible to stop them getting the wrong idea.
What Jesus should have said was, “Take this girl to have an MRI and a CAT-scan, STAT!”
Lol.
Again, Violet. Most Christians don’t struggle with this concept. It seems to be the fundamentalist fringe-sects, and (oh yeah) the Atheists who think this is a problem.
Yes, I know. Because no-one really has the faith clearly and explicitly mentioned on several occasions in the Bible (or the god doesn’t exist, difficult to work out which….)
That’s exactly how the whacko fundamentalist cults think! Very good!
Most Christians recognize that God created EVERYTHING, though! That means our marvelous medical technology came from him. Sometimes, it’s precisely the miracle they’re praying for.
Again, this is only difficult for people who think like Fundies.
There was more primitive medical care available when the character Jesus was around. There’s no suggestion in any of the verses I provided that they should be consulted first. Faith is all that’s needed (unless it’s not).
Question: Is faith required or not required to heal a sick person?
Answer: God wants you to go to the doctor.
That’s Christians using logic and evidence rather than the Bible and faith.
Again, that’s how the Fundies think about this question, too.
Congratulations.
Congratulations for what? Understanding what the Bible authors meant when they wrote it?
Congrats on being a Fundie.
Oh, I’m not. I don’t believe it’s true. That’s different from finding a meaning that suits reality in the clearly written words.
I didn’t say you BELIEVE what it says. You interpret Scripture the same way, though.
Fundy Atheists and Fundy Anti-Medicine groups believe “faith” means sitting around and waiting for God to do EVERYTHING by some sort of magic process.
Or by following the words in the Bible instructing you that with faith anything is possible.
Anything is possible with faith–including the development of life-saving technology, which was developed mainly by Theists over the last 150 years.
You’re growing obnoxious.
I suspect you’re embarrassed that it’s impossible to live with faith as instructed in the Bible. I can imagine the cognitive dissonance is obnoxious.
I told JZ to burn the Bible.
I suspect you’re embarrassed that it’s impossible to have discussions about why the Bible is wrong, when you can’t say FOR SURE that starving a child is wrong.
Yikes.
Is that what I said, really? Wow, you enjoy twisting conversations. Or maybe you genuinely don’t understand what you was discussed. Either way, why the conversation so rude here today?
Yes. The Ancients copied and pasted where you rationalized that letting a child starve could be the right thing to do.
You did say it, and so did JZ.
(Also, my job isn’t to be nice to you. There are situation in which rudeness gets people closer to the objective truth. People who say objectively dumb things deserve rudeness.)
Violet,
Have you studied these verses in context and with a commentary?
I’ll admit, it’s easy to twist the Bible to make it say what you want it to but Christians are not, except some fringe sects, taught not to see a doctor. The notion is simply absurd.
Please don’t feel the need to talk about Scripture with a moral relativist. I will NOT talk about Theology with someone who can’t say for sure that starving a child is wrong.
She has waaaaaay more explaining to do than you.
I’ve actually told JZ to “burn the Bible” before, because it’s nothing but a distraction to him. We’ve got to settle the first-things first. And, if truth is relative, and morality isn’t absolute, then that’s all you need to say. She will kick and scream that you’re not answering her questions, but you don’t owe her that. Thank her for her opinion, and send her on the way.
I was ready to move on anyway. I don’t have the patience for this stuff anymore.
Wow. I just scrolled through the comments this morning and I’m glad I opted out of the rest of this conversation.
That’s not even half of them! We have a game now where we ONLY respond to Ark through a post that is almost a year old… (It’s his Corner of Shame, because he can’t learn how to stay on topic and quit calling names when he comes to where the adults are trying to talk.)
So this comment section would be at least twice the size, if Jamine, Wally, JB, and I would let Ark do what he usually does. lol
Corner of shame? Interesting idea.
Probably makes no difference to him, I am sure that’s why he finds loyal devotees like Mike and Violet to come here and do his bidding.
Oh, you misunderstand… I was assured by Violet herself that all the regular players (Mike, Tildeb, Ark, JZ) actually defer to her.
Yes. That was the phrase.
Honestly, does the original source of irrationality matter at all?
It’s fun when their egos start requiring them to consume each other. 🙂
James, you brought up an excellent point. It’s very easy to twist the bible to say just about anything you want it to. But the question we should be asking is… Why is this so?
If the bible were gods word, with only one interpretation and one holy spirit to lead and guide and interpret truth to the believer… I would think it would be the most difficult thing in the world to twist a meaning out of it different that gods intended one. Different and varied Denominations and sects of christianity gives the lie to the idea that the bible is gods word, that there is one true interpretation and that there is any holy ghost to interpret.
It’s a farce. Unfortunately, people like this family, your family and even to some extent Branyans family still operate as if it is the word of God, to be obeyed and adhered to. And when they do so, children die
Hey, KIA, will you quote the place where the Raditas said the Christian Bible is the Word of God?
I’m sure if you asked them on your next prison visit they’d be glad to give you a resounding supportive quote in that regards
Wow.
You’re a piece of work.
Tell me, if you don’t believe in the guidance of the Holy Spirit any longer, then what has made you so adept at judging hearts? (I know you used to wield “God’s Word” for that superpower. Now what is your secret?)
I am definitely a piece of work. 170 lbs of chiseled and finely tuned man flesh. I think you meant piece of art
When was your prison visit with the Raditas?
Not mine… yours
Right, when did YOU visit the Raditas, to help you conclude they are Christians? Or is that ability to know what a person believes one of the gifts you’ve gotten from evolution?
How did evolution enter the conversation? You do know that the majority of Christians, those who call themselves Christians, actually accept the theory of evolution?
I asked whether your mind-reading powers evolved–that’s me, accepting that evolution happens, and asking if your psychic ability came from that process?
ON WHAT BASIS CAN YOU CONNECT THE RADITAS TO CHRISTIANITY, when you do not have a quote from them, saying they are Christians? How can you blame their faith in “God’s Word” when they never used that term?
(“Well, Amanda, it’s because I’m still a know-it-all.”)
Are you following these responses to the ‘How do you know they were Christians’ question?
Seriously, are ALL the atheists that comment on my blog brain damaged? Don’t they have a single representative they can send as a spokesman?
It’s incredible. I’m actually baffled.
Hi Amanda. Just getting to this. Have you ever been in a pentecostal church that didn’t take the bible to be gods inspired, inerrant and infallible word, to be obeyed and followed and applied to our everyday lives?
Hi, Pastor Moron.
I can’t believe you’re still kicking along, trying to make yourself look better.
The Romanian Pentecostal Church was denied official religion status in Romania multiple times. Thus, people had to start registering as “Baptists” to skirt around the Cult Act.
It’s a cult.
Ah… you don’t know much about pentacostals do you? And whether a church is recognized by a government or not is irrelevant.
Of course it’s relevant. There is reason to believe the Romanian Pentecostals aren’t the same breed as the American ones, Pastor Know-it-All.
Their own government was cracking down on cults and refused to recognize the sect.
But–by all means–continue hanging yourself. How much more rope do you need?
So… in China, when they don’t recognize officially any other Christian sect than the three self? All others are cults?
You really have no idea what you are talking about,
Romanian Pentecostalism isn’t American Pentecostalism.
Culturally, it’s a different animal.
Sorry you look stupid. 🙂
https://tineriromaniamericani.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/my-sinfully-english-rant-into-the-romanian-pentecostal-church/
Are you implying that if the US government ceased to recognize christianity as a religion, and called it a death cult of human sacrifice, which it is by the way, that you would totally kk with their assessment? You’d abide by a government telling you what is and what is not an official and legitimate religion?
Bs
Are you going to read the article and see the various differences in Romanian Pentecostalism, from the one you’re used to?
Doesn’t matter. They are just another branch of Christianity and you know it. Different, yes. Cult maybe. But not ‘non christian’. Nice try, you failed again
LOL!
It’s really obnoxious to be the only person in a discussion actually reading to gain knowledge, instead of reading to confirm their biases–as you do.
But, I’m glad you brought up if America labels all of Christianity as a death cult. That proves my point exactly. You will take the government assessment, as long as it agrees with your pre-held beliefs.
Mybagreement ornassesment of Christianity being a death cult of human sacrifice isn’t because a government said it. It’s my own assessment after having been Christian for 34 years and an a vocational minister for 25 of those, and recently deconverted for about 2.
I don’t let government tell me what is and is not legitimate religion or christianity. You are the one who used that to try and distance the parents murder of their own child from their practice of their Christian faith. The government assessment you agreed with only to bolster your argument. Pathetic little girl
Are Baptists Christians?
Of course they are
Fabulous.
So, why do you think Romania recognized the Romanian Baptists, but not the Romanian Pentecostals?
Ask Romania.
You’re the one who needs to ask. I’ve already been reading about it.
It is irrelevant what a government says is or is not christian.
Of course.
It only matters who YOU say is Christian or not.
LOL!
Well I don’t know about that, but I’m certain the government has no say whatever
You really don’t understand the problem?
When you’re the only one who seems unable to see the difference between a doctor-refusing cult, and the vast majority of self-proclaimed Christians?
You think maybe YOU’RE the only confused one?
You assume authority to call out Christians because you used to be one. (That’s what you implied earlier.) That was your excuse for harping about this child’s death, instead of calling out Atheists for their history of mass-murdering dictators.
But–you also told me that I only think I’m a Christian. And, you were never a Romanian Pentecostal.
I’ll give you credit for one thing, though. It’s smart of you not to explain your definition for what a Christian is/isn’t. Just keep that personal opinion locked up tight!–because as soon as you reveal what a True Christian is supposed to be, in the Mind of Pastor Moron, it will be obvious that only about 20 people in the world fit your description for the “Death Cult” Christianity.
The rest only think they’re Christians, but aren’t…because Pastor Mike says…
Just ask KIA what the Charismatic Romanian church members should do after they de-convert. Then he’ll say none of your business and leave.
I’m not done playing with him yet.
He’s now accusing me of “distancing myself from Christianity,” when he told me a few days ago I’m not REALLY a Christian anyway…
So, I’m going to see how long it takes for him to realize the problem is HIS definition of Christianity–not the standard teachings of the majority of believers.
He will never realize that.
That requires a level of thinking that abandoned Mike when he ‘de-converted’.
Have A Nice Day!
Hi Mike
Another person asked you this and you said nothing
By your own declaration you were super Christian
According to you what this couple did is what the Bible teaches
How many children did you allow to starve?
As a minister how many families did you counsel to avoid medical treatment?
Finally what have you done to atone for your crimes?
Hi wally, in my tenure as a Christian and a minister, I never advocated or practiced child abused or child starvation. Never counseled families to avoid medical treatment. I have no crimes to atone for.
So according to what you just said you sucked as a Christian
Good Christians recommend to people to allow themselves to die
You claim to have been a great Christian
There is a lie here somewhere
Or perhaps you are too moronic to even see how you have contradicted yourself
Are you having a good time at what remains of the western retaining wall of the temple built by the evil herod?
Wow
Herod was evil
Did not see that coming
I deconvert
Lol
Moron
And you talk you’re still in high school. Did you even finish?
Lol
Answer the question
Were you a good Christian or bad Christian..using your own stated criteria
Good Christians don’t allow people to see doctors
Answer
Do good Christians divorce? See I can play too
Uh-oh… KIA doesn’t want to answer! 🙂
Were you a good Christian before your deconversion???
(I’m going to go add “Can’t get divorced” to my list of things Pastor Mike says you can’t do, and still be a Christian…)
Amanda
I am pretty sure I would fail to check of most items on any list.
Thanks we have a God who is not looking for a checklist, but sent his own checklist to pay the full price for each and every one of us, so that we don’t have to even think about the checklist.
I just think it’s hysterical that Pastor Moron is still measuring his own Christian history, by the checklist. (He literally told me, “I was much more a Christian before than you appear to be…” and, “I know more about the Bible than you’ll ever hope to understand.”)
Lol. Amazing, even after supposedly deconverting, the source of his pride has stayed exactly the same…
I never looked at it like that. Good point!
I included a quote and a link to my blog at the bottom of this post… KIA is actually fairly smart to stop answering direct questions. When he does, it becomes obvious that he’s still a know-it-all. 🙂 (And I have at least a half dozen links to places he lectures Christians for not being as great as he always “was.”)
LOL
If you hunt through my place, you can find a dozen more places.
You should go to your dashboard and search the comments for “KIA”! (Do you know how to do that?) If you read through the old ones, you can create your very own list, just like I am!
tee-hee
I actually do know how. I have used it to look up comments. Did it once on Ark, and prove he can’t keep track of the things he says LOL.
Being able track down and reference old comments is my #1 reason for insisting the Atheists comes to OUR place, instead of vice versa. 😉
Ha thats good thinking
Go back to banging your head against the Wailing Wall
Hey! You said you were going to work!
I’d like to know how you decided to follow the Pink Unicorns on the Rainbow. Seriously, this is something I will look into as I’m an open minded person like you!
Answer the question Mike
You really should do something about that authoritative tone. Maybe you should pray for God’s grace to humble you and remove it
Thanks for the advice preacher boy. I’d seek counseling, but my faith prohibits me seeking help for my problems.
According to you.
Anyway back to the issue.
Did you like when you said you were a minister for 34 years?
Did you lie when you said this is what Christianity teaches?
Were you a sucky Christian.
On of those things is true, but all three cannot be.
Answer the question, Moron.
He does not HAVE answers to questions.
Good questions are those that the atheists refuse to answer.
This question of yours is EXCELLENT.
Yeah, he’s pretty entrenched in his non answer.
But pretty sure about my problems.
Ask him how he chose to believe in the Pink Unicorns Dancing on Rainbows. He hasn’t supported it with evidence yet.
That’s not true?
Wow I am so distraught
He tried to tell me he was ‘agnostic’ at first but that can’t be true since he is certain that Christianity is wrong. Then, he claimed his theism is the Pink Unicorn and I was eager to hear about how he arrived at that theology. Then, sadly, he had to ‘go to work’.
Funny. He is very certain about what is NOT right
And quite elusive about what he does believe
But he sure knows what’s wrong
He’s a self-righteous Know It All. He has not ‘recovered’ at all.
He has for sure fallen off of the wagon!
Stalin was an atheist. He killed a lot more people than any Charismatic church.
I always thought he was russian Orthodox
Well, then, THAT must be true!
I’m not sure it’s so black and white what staying was religiously speaking. You’d need to do more reading than in apologetics propaganda books
How rude and condescending!
Stalin’s beliefs are none of your business!
You’re the one who declare with surety that he was atheist
I am a theist. My views are on the table for discussion. I have a basis for comparison between my views and Stalin’s.
YOU are a mealy-mouthed, pseudo-intellectual coward. You’re the one who declared with surety that Christianity teaches child starvation.
You’re not just a theist, are you though?
What KIA wants to know is: “Do you interpret the Bible as literal history, with 6-day Creation and no room for evolution?”
That’s the only way you can be a Christian, JB.
Care to visit and comment on my newest post this morning?
Never in a million years.
You can’t know that for sure.
The only thing we know about Pastor Mike’s religion is, he is much better now than he used to be.
Also, he thinks I’m stupid enough to come comment on his blog.
HAHAHAHAHA!
I tried going over there to provide the links back to our blog, which he kept failing to include in his posts about us. And then he started removing the links from my comments!
So, not happening.
I don’t reject Islam.
You’re not just a theist, are you though?
I’m Agnostic, which means I don’t know and we probably can’t know
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/evolution-wont-send-you-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-10478
“…as a Christian, a biblically consistent and honest one anyway, one cannot accept evolution and still accept the Bible in any literal way as explanation for the way reality actually is.” -KIA
So, that eliminates me and my dad and Francis Collins and Dr. Hugh Ross as Christians. (Plus thousands of others…) I bet, if I keep combing through KIA’s old comments here, I can put together a fairly comprehensive list of things Real, True, Honest Christians are supposed to do, according to him.
That would be fairly accurate. If you don’t accept what is written in the bible completely , you cannot truly be a christian
Yep. Every letter of every book, as literal history, right?
You are not agnostic about the Bible.
You’re not agnostic about Christianity.
Oh no. Christianity is based on lies. Sure of that
And you don’t even realize that you just torched agnosticism do you?
You are such a lightweight that you still believe you have a serious point of view here.
Agnosticism is an answer to ‘do you know’ that there is a god or gods. Atheism or Theism is an answer to ‘do you believe’. Two very different questions and answers
No. They are exactly the same question.
Agnostic… gnosis… knowledge. Not belief. They are not the same at all and you know it
Why do you believe in the Pink Unicorn on Rainbows?
But you are sure that Christianity is wrong…
Oh yea… dead wrong
So…you’re not agnostic.
What kind of theist are you then?
The bible is a man made book and the god it represents is equally man made. It’s fiction
That is a MUCH different answer than, “I don’t know and probably can’t ever know”
…you see?
Not really. You reject Islam, right? Yet you are still a theist
What kind of theist are you, maybe I’ll de-convert and join you?
Pink fluffy unicorns dancing on Rainbows
Perfect!
What lead you to embrace this philosophy?
I’m done playing your game for now. Gotta get to work
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/i-could-but-i-dont-want-to/comment-page-1/#comment-3645
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/i-could-but-i-dont-want-to/comment-page-1/#comment-3648
Good Christians cannot be sarcastic or passive aggressive. And they cannot mock KIA (or anyone else who says stupid things). Pastor Mike says so. 🙂
Agnostic my ass….
I’m literally compiling a list…
So far, to be a real, true, honest Christian, one:
-Cannot make room for evolution
-Cannot be sarcastic
-Must “be respectful” (even of stupidity)
-Must take every word of every book of the Bible as literal truth. (No explanation on how/when context comes into play.)
-Finally–must refuse modern medical treatment, in favor of prayer-and-oil ONLY
What do you know? When you use Pator Mike’s definition, I’m NOT a Christian! LOL!
The only honest Christian is the one who de-converts.
It’s a mess in that head. lol.
Speaking of messes: JZ is back on the other thread! Post the dancing picture for him!!! 😀
Same reasons. You don’t accept the Koran and it’s version of God, Allah. Same for me and the Bible and it’s god, Yahweh
Hey–fundy–there are LOTS of things in the Koran that are true. I don’t pick three lines I dislike from a Holy Book, and then assume God couldn’t use any of it.
Is that why I’m not a Christian? 😉
Then you accept the Koran’s version of god?
What a fundy way to ask that question. LOL!
Is your new god too weak to use words written by man, to guide them toward himself?
Stalin was trained to be a priest…. a good way to prepare for becoming a totalitarian Dear Leader.
Did you train to be a priest? You’re the most totalitarian commenter in every thread.
LOL!!!!
I have a list a mile long of Atheist dictators and mass murderers.
He’s going to call out the ONE who “trained to be a priest”???
LOL!
Yes.
And since Tildeb has complete understanding of ‘reality’, the LINK between studying for the priesthood and massacring 50 million people is unquestionable.
*snickers*
No matter how slight, how tenuous, the link might be between Stalin’s priesthood training and his attainment as Dear Leader of a totalitarian state, that link is stronger than any to do with non belief in gods or a god.
Lol!
You are ignoring history.
That comment may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever said!
Only in your mind, JB. My claim is irrefutable… if you actually respect reality’s arbitration of it. You don’t, so your comment to my point is absolutely typical pious ignorance masquerading as a legitimate opinion. Your mistaking the two is a Comedy Sojourn staple.
Stalin would say the same thing!
I’m sure that in your mind Stalin would have said whatever you want him to have said. That’s how your belief works, JB. Reality plays no part.
YOU and YOU ALONE are the arbiter of ‘reality’. Whatever you say is irrefutable.
That’s how your belief works, Dear Leader. There is no reality other than yours.
Oh, you’ve made it quite clear that explanations are neither wanted nor appreciated here. I could give you lots of evidence for my claim but you don’t care about any of that. Too many words. Too much writing, Too long a comment. So yeah, even if my claim were simply a matter of faith-based belief like yours, that alone would counterbalance your own. Gosh, I wonder which might be the case in reality? Oh right… you refuse to allow reality to play a arbitrating role. Oh well. You say potato, I say bicycle. Same thing… in your mind.
Look at the last comment, Dear Leader.
It’s simply an ad hominem rant. Nothing of substance.
But in YOUR reality, it is an irrefutable statement of fact.
In YOUR reality, every word that falls out of your face is important and true.
In YOUR reality, everyone who raises an objection is an ignorant, reality-denier.
And no matter how many times I refer to you as Dear Leader, you remain oblivious to your arrogance.
HAIL TILDEB!
HE WILL GUIDE US TO ENLIGHTENMENT!
HAIL TILDEB!
Mike,
Militant trolls like you who deliberately and with malice of forethought single out a group of people for public mockery and ridicule, by your behavior, place yourselves beyond the pale of civil society.
Your behavior is reprehensible. So long as you continue to engage in it, you do not deserve the courtesy of either replies or engagement of any sort.
Engaging with people like you only serves to distract, annoy, and keep people from focusing on what matters in life.
It is past time me and my fellow Christians, start unceremoniously banning, blocking, spam-blocking, and ignoring you and everyone like you.
The Bible tells Christians to go forth and make disciples, to have a ready defense, and to always give reasons for the hope that we have. It does not however, tell us we are required to endlessly entertain scoffers, fools, and angry haters.
Have a wonderful day:)
James
Mrsmcmommy,
Of course, not even the goofiest of fundamentalist cultists sit around praying for food instead of making or buying it themselves. After all, we have Philippians 4:19 (ESV) – And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Taken to a foolish misuse, we would sit around doing nothing but praying, waiting for the Lord to give us food, clothing, and shelter, and pay our bills.
If Christians were meant to disdain doctors, Luke would not have been in favor with Paul, and there would have been Scriptural prohibitions against using doctors. Something so strong would be laid out as things believers were not to partake in.
Dave
1 Timothy 5:23 (ESV) – (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. You can use a doctor. But if you have faith you won’t need to.
Paul recommended wine to calm the stomach??? He had no faith!!!
🙂
Um… Maybe I’m the dumb one, but doesn’t it take faith to go to a doctor too? Because if you didn’t believe going to a doctor was going to help make you well, why would you go?
What’s also glaringly disingenuous about Mike’s post is that further in the article it says the child was taken into protective custody by the government, where he thrived because his diabetes was being treated along with his severe starvation.
Against the wishes of the social worker, the government unwisely returned the child to the home after almost a year.
Mike could have taken the opportunity to rail against the government/system here. He chose not to.
The child died from extreme starvation. I’m not overlooking the fact his diabetes was untreated, but to underscore the length of time it took for this poor child to starve to death.
If they refused to feed him – I’m sure they and the rest of the family were eating – then it’s not a stretch to see why they denied him medical care.
The question is why did they want him dead.
Pitted against the harsh spotlight of reality, Violet has realized that starving a child to death doesn’t seem like such a good belief to have or entertain.
Violet, a person’s philosophy is their world view. It informs and shapes who they are / ultimately become.
Also, adding to the fact that I’ve run in a lot of word-faith circles, it’s important to note that there is a noisy minority that makes this doctrine look completely phsyco. Any decent word-faith Christian will adamantly affirm that there is nothing sinful or wrong about seeing doctors. You actually CAN believe God for healing whilst having doctors appointments (someone’s brain is exploding somewhere). Having faith doesn’t mean you ditch common sense, and believing in God’s promises should NEVER come at the expense of loving someone. These parents were most certainly not loving and did not love their son, so the fact they claim faith in God’s will to heal is actually a lie, and there are many, MANY word-faith Christians who would be abhorrent and disgusted over this twisted doctrine.
Of course, this flies in the face of what it says in the bible. And I am sure you know that, and realise this comment might have been written a tad hasty.
Want to reconsider?
Watch out, Jasmine!
Ark is trying to sneak in and ask a question on this post, hoping you won’t notice he’s out of time out. I’m not sure whether you’re responding from your dashboard, so I didn’t want you to get confused.
You know what to do.
Take him back to the corner. 🙂
Thankyou, I’m onto it!
As a Canadian Christian I can only hope no one is quite that stupid!
Violet,
You make a fair point about this tragedy not being good fodder for a comedy post.
How can you say that however and, in the same comment, praise Mike for being thoughtful and raising a valid concern?
He took the actions of people who are obviously evil or mentally ill and used them to make a larger point about the ‘horrors’ of Christianity which is beyond absurd.
You, ma’am, have just blown every shred of credibility you had.
James
For the record, not everything written at the “Comedy” sojourn is meant to leave people rolling in the aisles. 🙂
Arriving at humor is a process. It must start with truth. And sometimes there’s a fine line between funny and heartbreaking.
I agree with you.
And, comedy that might not be well received by everyone is far different than obscene generalizations about an entire group of people, bitter hatred, and outright lies.
And I feel confident in expressing the hope from all Daddy’s alternative readers that he will eventually start telling it.
Without even clicking the link, I knew who this blogger was.
His post is indefensible but, sadly, not out of character for him.
Where did he condemn Christianity in the post? I thought his comments were quite thoughtful:
“Christian Parents, please I beg of you, don’t take the bible at its Word. If you wear glasses, you should know that as Christians you don’t walk in “Divine Health”. Your kids are not healed by Faith and Prayer like the Bible says. The Manifestation is NOT just waiting on your Faith. It is NOT a denial of God’s Power and Promise to seek medical attention for you or your children.”
It’s a valid concern because many Christians do believe that faith in your god will heal sickness. Why would they not? It’s stated quite clearly in the Bible that if they have faith they can do anything.
I’m not sure I agree with taking this deeply tragic event as an opportunity to make a ‘comedy’ point.
Jasmine called it!!!!!
I’ve looked back at Jasmine’s comment and she said something about people complaining about Christianity again. I simply said it’s not a suitable base for a comedy post. In my eyes at least. And where exactly did he condemn Christianity?
Direct quote from Pastor Mike: “This is what Christian parenting can lead to…”
Just stop, Violet. You have no legs to stand on. Pastor Mike was wrong to twist a news story for his purposes. Calling out the person who called him out is just ridiculous.
Is that statement factually incorrect? It ‘can’ lead to that and has on more than a few occasions, explicitly because the Bible says if you have faith you can do anything, and gives stories of faith healing. He nowhere makes factually incorrect statements grouping all Christians together in an exaggerated fashion – does he? (And even if he had, I’d find a ‘comedy’ post in poor taste.)
It’s not a “comedy” post. It’s a response to KIA.
The more you try to justify outrage over one, and not the other, the more ridiculous you look. I still recommend that you just stop. But, I guess you’re not planning to…
There’s no outrage here. KIA did a post appealing to Christians not to believe in faith healing over doctors because a child had died. You did a post laughing about him.
Draw your own conclusions based on your ‘conscience’, if logic means nothing.
It’s not logic.
As TheAncients said, it’s faux-outrage. Nobody buys it.
Ooooh OUTRAGE: “I’m not sure I agree with taking this deeply tragic event as an opportunity to make a ‘comedy’ point.”
“a ‘comedy’ post in poor taste”
It’s poor taste. I don’t agree with it. I’m not OUTRAGED. 😀
Definitions of words now… that would be the next step, huh?
Did you scold KIA for taking this deeply tragic event as an opportunity to further his anti-Christian message?
No.
Seriously, just stop. You won’t get anywhere wagging your “morality-isn’t-objective” finger here. My conscience is clear because I’M not the hypocrite.
Is KIA making a comedy point about Christians or a serious point about protecting children? Is Branyan making a comedy point about certain atheists or a serious point about protecting children? It’s not about using the material, it’s about how you use it.
I personally don’t think that particular real-life situation is suitable for a comedy post of any kind and I would share my opinion that it’s poor taste on any post that attempted to find comedy in it. I’m not wagging a finger, but perhaps I should. 😉
I personally don’t think this is a comedy post. I personally don’t think you have any business talking about right/wrong when you said “feeding starving children” is complicated.
I personally don’t care what you personally think.
So if I don’t agree that morality had objective rights and wrongs, my opinion is never valid?
Yes.
That is exactly right.
It’s only taken a few days, but I’m beginning to suspect this blog isn’t about hosting a discussion on ideas but about attempting to direct conversations into your version of truth. I don’t think this is healthy, even from a Christian point of view – if your god does exist, his message is difficult to discern and I would recommend you be open to thinking about your ‘concrete’ positions. Think how far Christianity has moved over the centuries.
For instance, if your god exists and he knows the ‘correct’ course for every action, your conscience may be no better a guide than mine. Perhaps he ‘gifted’ humans logic to use that to guide them, and you’re missing the point.
No one has argued that the objective truth is sometimes difficult to discern. The point is: the objective truth exists. If not, all of this conversation is irrelevant.
It doesn’t matter.
I don’t care about your personal opinion.
If you can point to the word ‘Christian’ or ‘Christianity’ in the original news story, I will address your points.
Otherwise, you have no point.
Very big of you Branyan. He makes no general point about condemning Christians at all, e.g. saying they shouldn’t be near children etc. He merely uses it as a base to appeal to Christians to use doctors, and not faith (as they are told they can do in the Bible) when it comes to illness. It’s actually one of his better posts.
Thank you for your opinion.
Of course, by ‘better posts’ you don’t mean ‘absolutely’ you just mean relative to your state of mind today.
Violet, is this also a thoughtful comment?
John Branyan: [Feb 26,2017 1:31PM] “Is it ALWAYS right to feed starving children?”
Violet: [Feb 26,2017 1:34 PM] “Not if they would suffer an even more excruciating death because of prolonging their life with food. But we’re not in a position to see the future so most humans with an animal sense of nurturing and a human sense of empathy, would feel it is RIGHT to feed a starving child.”
John Branyan: “So it isn’t ALWAYS right to feed starving children. Sometimes it is actually WRONG to feed starving children. It is up to each of us to do with starving children.There is no absolute right answer. I understand…” (mocking relative morality)
John Zande: [Feb 26,2017 1:39PM] “Is it ALWAYS right to feed starving children? (repeating the question before giving his ‘eloquent’ answer below).
No. If, for example, that child is being held captive in a pit of despair (like Harry Harlow’s Pits of Despair) and you have no other way of saving that child from their absolute and permanent misery then permitting (enabling) the child to die would be the morally-ethically correct thing to do….(more nonsense)
Fr: Ms. Wisp’s blog.
Those are ‘what if’ situations in a philosophical discussion. It’s not taking the explicit story of real-life horrendous suffering and making a ‘comedy’ post out of it. I’m sorry you can’t see the difference.
I think you know full well as everyone else that this was not a ‘comedy’ post.
So calling it a ‘comedy’ post is simply your way of pretending moral?? (oopss) outrage. No one is buying your pseudo-offense.
You want to be offended – read your own comment!
Who thinks it’s okay to starve a child under any condition. hmmm… Violet and Zande (they have to keep in line with their beliefs).
So now, faced with the reality – you’re expressing moral?? outrage. Where did that come from.
Where did he condemn Christianity in his post?
Really?
Thoughtful?
Really?
Your defense of his madness and hatred is indefensible. You know absolutely well, violet, that this family does not represent the Christian faith as taught in the Bible. That family murdered that boy, and they did it for some reason other than their faith.
Mike? Mike? You out there boy?
Come defend the garbage you wrote.
Bet you won’t.
I have no idea why you think his post is such a big deal. I can’t see any inflammatory language there, and his key concern is that children go to doctors if they are ill. Obviously it’s touched a Christian nerve.
If you don’t answer questions, you’re afraid and avoiding.
If you DO answer questions, you’re protesting too much because the topic “obviously touched a Christian nerve.”
Damned if you do and if you don’t.
Hey, Violet, here’s a question your Atheism won’t allow you to answer plainly: Is it ALWAYS right to take sick children to the doctor?
I am worried for you if you think there are blanket rights and wrongs. If your child has a cold and you’re going to be sitting in waiting room for two hours exposed to lots of germs, it’s best to stay at home. Shall I go on? Just as well you have a god to give you a ‘magic feeling’ that covers all contexts, eh? 😉
LOL!
So, it’s NOT always right to take a child to the doctor.
Fabulous.
You realize that you have to assign stupid beliefs to me in order to make fun of me, but we’re actually making fun of you for the EXACT THINGS YOU’VE SAID, right?
No, I really don’t know what you mean. Would you take your child to the doctor if they had a minor cold if you risked exposing them to further illness?
You know EXACTLY what I mean.
Are there situations where this Christian couple was justified in witholding insulin? Or is it ALWAYS RIGHT to make sure a diabetic gets insulin?
That’s not what you asked. Are you changing the question now? Evaluate the outcomes based on both possible actions and make your own decision. Or ask your god to use an invisible ‘morality stick’ if that seems more sensible to you (like they did).
“Evaluating outcomes” for what purpose???
Because one of the outcomes might be BETTER than the other…
If you say “invisible morality stick” one more time, I might scream. Or I’ll just start referring to YOUR conscience as an “invisible morality stick,” instead.
LOL
Hysterical.
Yes Mike’s sole motivation is to protect children. He learned the from Ark.
It’s touched a nerve because it is a lie. Maybe you should ask your preacher friend if he starved his family when he was a christian. I bet you he did not. Why would he not? Because, despite your moronic posturings to the contrary, it is not what Christians practice, and it is not what The Bible teaches.
Your claims otherwise either reflect complete ignorance, or a complete inability to tell the truth.
I have in the past enjoyed you somewhat violet, but to defend Mike’s garbage is beyond the pale.
Mike? Mike?
Where are you boy?
Get in this…If you think you can defend your garbage.
Wally, I never thought we’d sink to the day when you start using insults in discussion. Bad day? You might disagree with me, but ‘moronic posturing’ is a bit rude.
Gosh have I hurt you feelings Violet?
So very sorry LOL.
My advice would be that, if you don’t want that said, stop defending it.
Your assertion that what those people did represents Christianity, and represents God’s Word has two key traits.
It is a moronic position
It is militant atheist posturing.
Therefore if you make the argument, you are engaging in moronic posturing.
So…stop.
So, then the very real question remains:
Is it always wrong to allow a child to starve? Always?
Hey Violet
You never did answer
Is it always wrong to let kid starve?
That’s really simple
Yes or no?
Hi Wally, sorry, been busy and find it painful to play to these simplistic games. But for the sake of not leaving the thread unanswered, I’ll attempt to explain again to this forum of closed thinkers.
I can’t imagine a situation where it’s anything other than horrific that a child (or any person) would starve to death. There’s pain and suffering for the child and for anyone associated with them. And this is ‘wrong’. But as I’ve made clear many times, there is no such thing as simplistic and absolute rights and wrongs – what you seem to expect from your god’s existence is impossible. For example, there will be very rare situations where it is possible to say that the ‘best’ course of action is to withhold sustenance, and in those cases we would be foolish (nay stupid) to talk about absolute rights and wrongs. Here’s one example for you:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Schiavo/story?id=531907&page=1
It would be lovely to close our eyes to the world, to the suffering, to the injustice and to the complexity of every action and situation – and in some way I’m envious that you all appear happy to do so. But in another way, it makes much more sense to approach this very real existence with our eyes open, seeking genuine understanding and not grasping to the basic conclusions of vastly ignorant people steeped in superstition many centuries ago.
I’m not even going to ask what any of you think, because not one of you will discuss the real ramifications of your absolute morality claims with even a shred of honesty. All the discussions I’ve had here are aimed at getting a pathetic ‘gotcha’ moment. So I’ll leave you all to your games. But if you ever want a real conversation you’re welcome over at my place. 🙂
“There’s pain and suffering for the child and for anyone associated with them. And this is ‘wrong’. But as I’ve made clear many times, there is no such thing as simplistic and absolute rights and wrongs ”
And again…you didn’t answer the question. You THINK you’re answering the question but you’re NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
On behalf of all the other ‘closed minded, simplistic thinkers’ let me assure you that we understand your position. We totally understand your philosophy.
Your philosophy is contradictory and useless. It is incoherent. It is irrational. And you are a condescending, pseudo-intellect for continuing to post this idiotic (yes, idiotic) gibberish in the forum.
I tried to warn you, Violet. You are not a clear thinker. You’re welcome to contribute to the conversation. You’re welcome to ask questions. But you are being disrespectful when you don’t LISTEN to what other people are saying.
You are the one playing games.
And you wouldn’t recognize a ‘real conversation’ if it ran over you with a snowmobile.
Whatever Branyan, enjoy your silly games. Happy to chat with mrsmcmommy over at mine if she’s ever allowed out. 😉
Whatever Violet, enjoy your arrogant bubble.
I keep Mrsmcmommy locked in the basement. She is only fed twice a week. She is a woman and that is the correct way to treat women.
I will not allow her to visit your blog because women should not be allowed internet access.
Yes, please, Dad? Can I go over and discuss right and wrong with someone who doesn’t think it exists?
😉 😉 😉 😉
Violet, I know how touchy you get when you discover that discussions sometimes happen without you. So, FYI, here’s what I said to Wally just now:
I am simple Violet
Sorry if simple bothers you
I find this odd. You skate around the definition of good and bad and deny such a definition even exists. Yet you condemn as immoral any thing a Christian says or does
I take it then that the only real standard is the “what suits me” standard
So the answer to my my question is no its not always wrong to allow a child to starve
Got it
So exactly why is preacher Mike so upset if its not always wrong?
Maybe in the evolutionary state and societal mores they live it it’s perfectly ok
I dunno being pretty simple and all
Sheesh
She’s been ‘busy’ Wally.
You are too simple to be a priority.
She’s a snot-nosed kid. If she had an ounce of self-awareness, she’d apologize for her rudeness and we could demonstrate how Christianity makes forgiveness possible.
Well the simple ness of me has yet to bother me John lol. I like it that way
Yes though somewhere in all this is a great lesson on forgiveness for sure in that even we that know the moral standard exists, we still fail to meet it..yet can still be forgiven. Of course if we don’t even acknowledge the standard exists we can’t very well understand we need forgiveness can we?
You have, in my opinion, put your finger on the great need of our time. This culture does not need to be reminded that God loves them. They need to be told that they do not love Him back.
Well i agree John; You just put your own finger on it even better
Once again, I’m sorry Wally. The simplicity of the message you took from that shows a real lack of understanding and empathy. But whatever keeps you going. Sheesh
I have a problem starving any kids
You say starving some is okay
Yet i lack empathy
Wow
I can’t get my simple mind around how strange that is
She is still struggling because she thinks “objective” means “clear” or easy-to-understand.
It doesn’t always.
She thinks an objective standard would allow her to know exactly what to do in every situation.
It doesn’t always.
And she thinks objective means the exact same choice/action will be right or wrong in every circumstance.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that, either. Not when the objective standard is God, looking at the heart, to see if we are acting in self-interest or in others-interest.
God will never judge that you’re “wrong” for feeding a starving child, even if your twisted worldview tells you it’s all about numbers and measuring butterfly-effect out comes.
But he WILL judge if you feed a child just to make yourself look good. (The Bible says you’ll get your reward for that, but it won’t be much…)
The standard is still objective. And all of us fall short of it.
“There’s pain and suffering for the child and for anyone associated with them. And this is ‘wrong’. But as I’ve made clear many times, there is no such thing as simplistic and absolute rights and wrongs ”
Her contradictions are often only separated by a comma!
Hi Amanda
I think your last sentence is the most important. We do fall short each and every time yet our Lord will forgive it all if we just believe
But the admission of falling short is too hard for some
Its easier just to say:
No standard then i never failed to meet it
If i never failed to meet it then i dont need forgiveness
Yep.
If only they could make themselves really BELIEVE they’re doing okay. I don’t think they can. I think they KNOW there is such thing as right/wrong… and that’s why they agonize over these what-ifs and ethical dilemmas.
It’s the definition of being lost. :/
They will never convince themselves Amanda..never
10 years ago i was them. I actually somewhat understand them. I remembered that the more i came to understand how wrong i was the angrier i got. One of two things can happen…they either go with what conviction is telling them, or keep allowing their hearts to harden. Some day they may become to hard to ever change
Amazing. :/
My dad says he remembers being a kid and hearing that some people hate God and reject him because they’d rather have their own way. He says he used to think, “Who would do that?! Why?!”
It’s no less confusing when you see it in practice…
To me, that experience of your father, and I assume you, seems totally different to me. From the perspective of my own life, where faith or religion were mentioned rarely, to see people reacting like that makes perfect sense to me. Well, not makes sense, as the rejection is ultimately stupid, but you know what I mean. I get it, honestly.
Your perspective is helpful. It really is.
Now, if you could just explain what the difference is now, and what it took to get you here, that would be great. 😀
Honestly? I just gave up. I came to the stunning realization that God was fully entitled to handle me any way He wanted to, and that my thought of how stupid His plan was really didn’t matter.
Most stunning, however, was the realization that despite how crappy I had been to Him, He would simply ignore, forgive and forget it all if I only believed.
And I had been really, really crappy to him. These internet wahoos? Amateur hour. Before the internet days, we had to conduct our mockery in person with real people. I hurt some people, including people in my own family. Yet, here was God saying..no problem.
The was a depth of love that just astounded me.
He didn’t coddle me in, though. He pretty much let me make a mess of things before I gave up. You know, broken and all that?
What changed? What’s the difference? Only everything, really. I suppose you notice I can be um, combative? LOL. I hate it now, you know; I don’t take any joy in it. I used to fight just so I could hurt the other person. I do it now, because like it or not, it remains necessary. Some folks just have to be dealt with. Not only that, but they all need to be told about our Lord. So, here I am.
VW says, “I’m not even going to ask what any of you think, because not one of you will discuss the real ramifications of your absolute morality claims with even a shred of honesty.”
Exactly.
Religious belief like this allows the holder to pass moral responsibility on to some divine male figure. Belief in a such a moral law giver is actually an avoidance technique by people unwillingly to be morally responsible for their own actions, their own opinions, their own concerns in a way that smears the patina of moral authority on themselves but who have already given away their personal moral autonomy to the extent that they can’t even condemn child abuse and neglect and intentional suffering and even death of children done in the name of following the moral law giver’s directives!
These religious people are not responsible moral agents; they are like morally immature teenagers attempting to avoid personal responsibility on the one hand while doing their damnedest to convince others with silly word games and name calling that submitting to a divine moral law giver raises their moral stature on the other hand… over and above those who shoulder the burden of moral responsibility and hold themselves morally accountable for their actions!
What we see here is one pernicious aspect of religious belief that helps demonstrate how giving away one’s moral authority and submitting to some supposed ‘divine moral will’ is the root cause of so much great harm. It’s the ‘Just following orders” mindset in action and is no different in principle that what motivates so many terrorist attacks announced with Allahu akbar.
Note that no one here other than non Christians has the intellectual courage and moral fortitude to actually condemn fellow believers for killing their child when they were following the divine orders of their moral law giver set down in scripture. They can’t condemn… or they would reveal to the world just how hypocritical they have to be to both refuse to follow their god’s commands on the one hand while hiding behind it to say they are morally superior because of their willingness to submit to it on the other. That’s why they only talk to vilify others who point his hypocrisy out; they will not take responsibility for the religious morality they have imported… even if it kills children! Their love of their religious belief and its Dear Leader is greater than the concern and care they have for the health and welfare of real children in real life suffering real but entirely preventable harm. That’s what moral capitulation in action… and shows the perniciousness and insidious way giving away one’s moral autonomy by submitting to some religious belief detracts from and does not add to their moral character.
Hey Tildeb: you talk too much.
Is it wrong for me to tell you that?
Wally, I object to being called ‘boy’ by you. It’s a bit redneck of you as well as telling of your education level
You also objected to being called “pastor.”
How did that work out? 😉
I guess you and Wally have something in common… you’re both children
I OBJECT TO BEING CALLED A CHILD!!!
AGHHHHH!!
Nah, just kidding.
Grown ups don’t pitch a fit over stuff like that. (Take note.)
Well Amanda, you certainly don’t behave or communicate like an adult.
I bet calling him preacher boy would really offend him
hehehe. I won’t “object” if you try it. 🙂
Yeah
So sorry
Now can you defend the garbage you wrote? Or are you gonna just reflect the whole conversation to the big bad Christian?
You wrote it defend it
Thx for the support violet. Ark told me that JB had posted this… ah… article about my post. Biblical christianity, the kind that takes the bible at its Word and puts it into full practice, will produce these results. Damaged lives and unfortunately even dead children sometimes. It is sad and dishonest for Christians to make excuses and deny what is clearly in front of their eyes.
Mike
You statement that Biblical Christianity always produces this behavior is totally false
It is lie
Or you were the stupidest minister who ever lived
Or perhaps that was the lie
Wally, do you believe God heals?
Mike
You have been challenged
Defend what you wrote
Or you will be officially dubbed preacher boy
I’m trying to get to a point. Wally, do you believe God heals?
Of course you are
Substantiate your assertion that you have accurately represented Biblical Christianity
Quit listening to your stone headed handler on how to trap and trip up the stupid fundy
Preacher boy
So… do you believe God heals?
Asking you whether you believe God heals is hardly tripping and trapping you
Of course i believe it
Now attempt your comical attempt at a trap lol
When it fails run back to ark for further instructions from the handbook of militant atheism
OK. Thx for the answer.
Do you also believe that God will answer when you ask for healing?
Ark answered that fast?
Is preacher boy going rogue?
So… do you believe God will answer when you ask for healing?
So
No support to be provided for your post?
Figures
Seriously, Wally.
He needs to admit that he misrepresented Christianity. I’ve backed him into a corner down thread.
He’s badgering you with questions thinking I’m gonna forget.
I never forget. 🙂
Of course that’s his tactic
And how come you aren’t responding to John either?
So… do you believe God will answer when you ask him for healing?
Mike
You have misrepresented Christianity
John has called you on it
I have called you on it
Defend what you wrote
Or remove all doubt that you are a posturing liar
There is already no doubt that he is a liar.
The only thing in doubt is how many more posts he’ll make before telling us to ‘Have a Nice Day’ and disappearing.
Yeah. How come you aren’t responding to John?
Hi JB, I thought you knew… I respond and comment when I choose to. Thx
I already knew that.
I just thought it might bother you to have your credibility utterly decimated.
Carry on!
Nah. You’ve done nothing of the sort. The news article is the real story. That’s what people should be focusing on. People will decide for themselves, and you have helped them by pointing them to my post. Thank you jb
“People will decide for themselves, and you have helped them by pointing them to my post.”
We absolutely agree about that.
Thank you again for pointing people to my post. I hope all Christian Parents read it and stop taking god at his word. Thank you for widening the discussion here on your blog
Thank you for posturing before you disappear. You can’t ACTUALLY BELIEVE this conversation has been good for you. But I understand the need to save face…
Come back and demonstrate your sheer stupidity any time!
My face is just fine. Little bit of pepper, whole Lotta salt. Not many wrinkles, more wisdom every year
I promise, any one who visits your blog after this is doing so out of morbid curiosity over what sort of former “minister” could be this much of a dishonest jerk…
Well, folks, the fruits of the reconvert are: pride, bitterness, arrogance, self-righteousness, aaaand clairvoyance. 🙂
And pepper face.
All are welcome
They’ve seen everything they need to see from you right here. A Fundy who doesn’t have the integrity to admit when he screwed up.
Are you going to respond to my dad?
After I backed him into the corner about the Raditas family’s church affiliation he responded:
“Hi JB, I thought you knew… I respond and comment when I choose to. Thx”
…this is the guy who wants people to quit taking God at his word.
Again. I’m literally baffled. And the fact that WE get accused of avoiding questions or playing games just makes it even more incredible.
Hell will be full of pretentiousness, bad poetry, and ugly ties.
I’m discovering that this Raditas story isn’t new. It was on Patheos in May of LAST YEAR…still checking to see when it originated….http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/05/faith-healing-suspected-in-death-of-canadian-teen/
Apparently…the story originally broke in 2013. The couple was recently convicted and that’s why it’s back in the forefront of KIA’s pointed head.
Yep. And the Patheos article quoted the fine journalists at Dead Beat.
KIA said he got it from Reddit.
So it’s on some atheist channels because the couple was convicted recently.
Patheos, The Friendly Atheist, Reddit… I mean, that settles it.
Someone needs to warn Christians against this deadly belief that is so prevalent!!!!!
It made the news because of the verdict was first degree murder. Usually religious people who kill their kids in the name of respecting their moral law giver can get away with it. That’s why it was news!
By the way, the parents are Romanian Pentecostal Church. https://debunkingdenialism.com/2017/02/27/extremist-quacks-get-life-sentences-for-murdering-their-diabetic-son/
Wanna wager on whether or not he addresses my last question? I got a hundred bucks says he ‘don’t’.
He will NOT.
You are most welcome!
Thank you for bringing the discussion here to my blog and saving Christian Parents the trip to your blog.
Curious, you claim you’re not an atheist. So when Christian Parents stop taking god at his word, who’s words can they trust?
You do realize that not all non Christians are atheists, right?
Yes. I do realize that.
What non-Christian God’s word do you trust now?
That would be my business now wouldn’t it?
LOLOLOLOLOL!
And, might I add, not the subject of either your post or mine.
LOLOLOLOL
Nice try at deflection and ad Hominem though. Just didn’t meet the mark that’s all. Better luck next time
It was a bullseye.
You’re a joke.
Have a horribly uncomfortable night wallowing in your Utter uselessness.
I sleep just fine thx
https://goo.gl/images/q1e3tI
He would know, right? Lol
Apparently YOU would know…
You’re the one who decides what a good Deity would know and not know. What a good Word From God should say and not say.
But of course, the jesus portrayed in the NT is a religious fiction. So I guess neither would he know.
And people should trust your assessment of that why?
You’re a weasel with a chip on his shoulder. Your word means less than religious fiction.
I’m not asking anyone to trust me. I’m not dangling anyone over a firey pit threatening them with eternal punishment and torture unless they believe me and trust what I say.
I’m only asking them to think for themselves and telling them my story and what I’ve learned. As with most things in life, it’s self study, not rote learning
Yes, you are asking people to trust you.
You make your blog out to be the place where people can go to find the dirty truth about Christianity.
And, no, you aren’t telling anyone what you learned. You run from questions, because you know your beliefs are not that different from mine. That’s why it’s important for you to tell me I’m “not really a Christian.” Because if I still call myself a Christian, there’s no reason you can’t. You’d get torn apart by your Atheist friends if you stopped attacking ghosts in the Church and were honest for two seconds.
Hypocrisy and cowardice are disgusting to both Christians and non-Christians.
Sorry, I’m not a Christian anymore and I doubt you ever were
What does a Christian have to believe?
If you don’t know, you better ask somebody
I did ask somebody, idiot.
I asked the person claiming he’s no longer a Christian and who has suggested (twice) that I’m not one. According to what standards are you making those calls?
-Every word of the Bible is dictated by God.
-Taking kids to the doctor is disobedience.
-Always tell others to “have a nice day”
Right?
Sorry again. I’m far from an idiot. Mirror much?
Have a nice day. Lol
KIA:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/comment-page-1/#comment-5164
Just as much the Legalist, deciding who qualifies as a real Christian as he ever was… Old habits die hard.
Ah, but you’re not a Christian. Are you?
Another KIA sermon from a few months ago:
Again–he sure does get off on telling others what a great Christian he was…even though he’s not supposed to be one now. 🙂
What does a good Christian have to believe, Mike? A true, faithful one believes they can’t take kids to the doctor, right? Tell us, since you were such a good one!
Link from the sermon I just quoted: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/comment-page-1/#comment-5180
Well, I don’t know, Pastor. Do I have to check all those boxes to be a “good Christian?”
LOL!
But anybody who comes to a different conclusion that you must be stupid, right?
Sleep well preacher boy
Hey Mike
Of course it’s your business. Interpreted as “Again I fling statements and facts and assertions but will NEVER NEVER back them up, because that’s my business.”
@Tildeb. Not that I have anything against Romanians or Pentecostals. but FYI, they aren’t Baptists. Your ignorance if facts is why I don’t argue theology with rabid atheist evangelists. Yall just make stuff up and thing if you put it in bold face and repeat it a million times it becomes true.
LOL. You said Baptist like it’s an insult. You sir, are a doof.
And Wally, you said ‘romanians’? And Pentacostals like an insult.
Did you mean roman catholics and people who believe in the continuing gifts of the Spirit in operation?
The first are the root from which your Baptist tree grew and the second are those who simply believe ‘… the same yesterday, today and forever’
Take the plank out of your eye
Put a cork in it preacher boy
Again, when did the couple in the article you built your pathetic post around ever say they were Christian or that their actions were motivated my faith?
In case you run off
Have a nice day
Well, Amanda keeps asking you to tell us all what list we have to follow to be good Christians, but apparently you don’t want to provide it.
Maybe you could provide that list when you actually take the time to back up your post with facts.
Ready, set, go..as your rabid atheist evangelist mentor likes to say
Try Google searching the story on other outlets. Like this one http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017/02/parents-found-guilty-faith-healing-death-diabetic-son/
Ah…ARk has taught you well
Make unfounded assertions, then demand people to do their own research to prove your points.
Good job, grasshopper
Back to YOUR post, as written. Back your assertion.
You can’t
Because you are a liar and a rabid atheist evangelist who will say any thing to destroy faith wherever he finds it.
If you would just tell us all how to be good Christians this would all be easier
Or, back your post
Either one would be really cool
Have a nice day
I’m sure you can find some articles if you try. Problem is… you don’t want to find them.
No, the problem is you are a lying atheist evangelist who cant back up anything he says.
Not an atheist wally. Just not christian anymore. Please get it right
I notice you didn’t deny being a liar
Interesting
and, awkward too
In the meantime can you back the assertions made in your post. Yourself, mean
You back them. Don’t send me off to d0 your homework
Sorry, I don’t plan to do your thinking and investigation for you. You have to want to do that for yourself. Someday you will. Recovery awaits
LOL
Funny
Moron
What do you think moron means?
Wally–a good Christian doesn’t say moron.
Thus sayeth Pastor Mike.
Origin and uses
“Moron” was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from the Ancient Greek word μωρός (moros), which meant “dull”[4] and used to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70, being superior in one degree to “imbecile” (IQ of 26–50) and superior in two degrees to “idiot” (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others including, “idiotic”, “imbecilic”, “stupid”, and “feeble-minded”, was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]
That doesn’t tell me why I shouldn’t say it.
Ya moron.
(By the way, would you like me to link to the multiple places Ark and Tildeb have used the word on this blog? I’m sure they’re suuuuuuuper interested in your opinion.)
Whether a Christian or not, no one should be referring to anyone as a Moron. It is synonymous to the N word
Says who? The Word of KIA? (Here are just three links…there are more! Go ahead and spread your worthless opinion. Pastor Moron. I like it.)
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/11/30/everyone-isnt-welcome-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-8984
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/05/pulling-goodness-out-yo-a/comment-page-1/#comment-12003
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/05/pulling-goodness-out-yo-a/comment-page-1/#comment-12000
You’re a moron.
http://www.olsenpark.com/Sermons14/CallPeopleIdiots.html
LOLOLOLOL
Moron.
Yes…say “that makes you LOOK like an idiot” instead.
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/comment-page-1/#comment-5158
Mike
Not debating with you stupidity
Look
I am a redneck
I am undereducated
I know nothing
I suck as a Christian
I am insensitive and a bigot
See? You win
Now, back your false assertions in your post.
Mike
Calling you a moron when you behave moronically is not the same as maltreating another person because of the color of their skin
That assertion is moronic.
Not to mention, you are pathetic to make it, sort of like when you compared your deconversion to being shot at.
You are a sad pathetic excuse for a man.
Now, back the assertions made in your post.
Wally–tell him everything he says or does MAKES HIM LOOK like a moron.
Here’s a link where he said I made myself “look like” an idiot. (And the word “idiot” was just a level or two below “moron” on the old psych scale.) So, I guess that’s okay…
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/why-we-cant-find-gods-bones/comment-page-1/#comment-5158
Was idiot better than feeble minded? I can’t recall.
LOL
I am glad jet lag whacked my sleep out last night, or I would have missed all of this fun this morning(Last night for you guys I guess.) I think I am on the same time as Ark, though now. I think Tel Aviv and SA are the same, or close.
Yeah, I’m up late! It’s just after 11:30, and I usually go to bed by 11:00…
I wonder if Pastor Moron is gone now.
I was just going to tell him that nobody–whether Christian or non-Christian–should call a person “childish.” (There’s nothing wrong with young people, though they’re unable to defend themselves against having their youth used as an insult.) 😉
Well we are headed out. Off to Caesarea by the Sea, the Mount Carmel, and two nights near the Sea of Galilee
Sleep well!
Have fun!
Yes, Wally, just go interview the family to get all the answers you need about what makes a good, standard, Christian family. I mean–KIA didn’t actually do that. But that’s because he’s not going to do the research FOR YOU.
LOL!
Yes, Wally.
It’s none of our business what Pastor believes but please get it right.
Is getting that right one of the things I have to do to be a good Christian John?
I am SO confused.
And suffering bad jet lag, too. Ugh
Um
Hey moron
That doesn’t prove your assertion. The probably proves those people were morons, kind of like you.
Names, Wally. Stop calling names. It’s juvenile and childish
LOL
Funny
Have a nice day
By the way, calling someone a moron or retarded is not a very sensitive thing to say. It might even border on bigotry. Do you still use the N word? Then Stop using the M and the R words
I never called anybody retarded
That was a lie
You made that up.
Ah….so you can’t back what you said, so I suddenly become a racist.
LOL.
You know have many things to get done
Give me the good Christian list
Back your post
Prove I am a racist
Sure is Mike, we agree on something.
By the way, remember calling me a pure, unadulterated dickweed?
Puhleez dude, no wonder almost no one takes you seriously.
You are welcome to express your concern directly on my post.
You can’t say “I’m sorry for being a hypocrite” right here?
Mike
Thats a lie too
I went to your post
Addressed yuur post
You hijacked your own post to ask me one stupid question over and over
Which was moronic
Notice i didn’t call you a moron but said what you did was moronic. According to your own words that matters a lot
Have a nice day
Are you having a good time is Israel? I’ve never been.
Yes I am, thanks
Not a lie. All are welcome
Lol
You are a pathetic militant atheist worm who is too scared to even link to other bloggers when you mock them
So yes it was a lie
Moron
Probably best to ignore Pastor Mike, Wally. He is in ‘nice guy mode’ now. He’s mounted his assault and now he’s wondering why everyone is ‘picking on him’. He’ll re-post an old writing about how awful Christians treat him now that he’s de-converted.
Just let him go. He is, like all his atheist brethren, useless.
He akready posted mocking me and my trip
Didnt even have the decency to link
I think he will is scared somebody will come read
Sorry. Once again. I’m not an atheist, just not christian anymore.
Sorry.
Unless you’re willing to explain your concept of God (which is none of our business) then you’re an atheist.
Have a nice day.
Do you believe all non Christians are atheist by default unless they explain to you what they do believe? How arrogant and rude. None of your business unless I choose to tell you.
No. I believe non Christians are however they describe themselves. You refuse to describe your faith.
You claim it’s ‘none of my business’ which profoundly stupid when you’re in blog spaces talking ABOUT FAITH.
Go away, Mike!
JB, this, Wallys, CS’s blog and others that infrequent are about Christian faith, not faith in generic. My point is usually to describe why I am not christian anymore, not to explain myself for what I believe now. If I choose to do that some day, I will. For now, it’s arrogant and rude and condescending to demand that someone describe their beliefs before the other person considers them not an atheist. Have a wonderful day
No.
It is arrogant and rude and condescending to criticize the faith of other people without revealing your own.
You can’t explain your faith because you haven’t the foggiest idea what you believe. You’re a muddled mess of incoherence.
Me: I’m going to take Main Street downtown.
KIA: Main Street is for indoctrinated nitwits! Main Street is a stupid way to go downtown!
Me: Okay. How do you get downtown?
KIA: None of your business.
Have a day full of the painful realization that you’re worse than an atheist.
According to what? Well, according to KIA’s beliefs, which are “none of anybody’s business,” except when he’s lecturing them on rudeness…
Yep, I’m arrogant and condescending and rude. And I didn’t ask for Pastor Moron’s opinion about that. 🙂
The smartest thing he has done so far is to “surrender” and declare he wouldn’t be visiting here anymore. I hope he makes that threat again, and keeps it this time.
He surrendered to ‘save his sanity’.
Apparently, it was too late.
Maybe this will help you, John.
Is the definition of an atheist subjective?
My definition of your character is subjective. Negative, but subjective. The words I use for that definition are held in common meaning and don’t descend from on high, hidden but ready to distribute in the nether regions of your believed-in divine gift-bag agency. you dolt.
Then KIA is an atheist.
I knew it!
Why are you here, offering your subjective opinion, when nobody wants it?
Ain’t happening Mike, I wouldn’t visit your blog if you paid me to.
Have a wonderful night 🙂
I’m sorry James for referring to you as a Dickweed.
Thanks but I really don’t care about being called names Mike, I am a hard person to offend.
The only reason I mentioned it at all is because you got on a high horse here about name calling yet you are guilty of it yourself and condone it other places and from other people which makes you a hypocrit.
If you want to call Christians names, fine, do so, and do so proudly. It would make you seem like a schmuck but at least you would be an honest one.
Or this one http://globalnews.ca/news/3263385/radita-trial-decision-diabetic-boy-case/
LOL I respond when I choose too.
Interpreted to be” As a rabid internet atheist evangelist, I am not prepared to ever answer questions. In accordance with the handbook I only ask questions!!!”
I’m curious too though. At what point in the article you quoted did that couple every even say they were Christians, or ever indicate that faith was what motivated them to do what they did?”
That’s the question you have before you. Since you ignore John, thought I’d ask too.
They are and remain good Christians, Wally. Not like you Christian wannabes. The put their children where their beliefs are.
Ah…
The YOU are the keeper of the Be a Good Christian list
Thought it was preacher Mike.
Do share LOL
“Now here’s the point none of you Atheists seem willing to admit: the killer’s reasons were as legitimately informed by their belief that God doesn’t exist as yours are. You just don’t like these particular results… and so try to distance yourself from them by claiming these kinds of people have misguided Atheist beliefs whereas others have properly guided Atheist beliefs.”
I hope you don’t mind I changed a few words in your quote from earlier…
If you can tell me what Christians are SUPPOSED to think, I can tell you what Atheists are. The difference is, I’m not just interpreting a Holy Book. The belief that God doesn’t exist results in dictatorships when it doesn’t result in anarchy because that’s a perfectly LOGICAL outcome. Sorry you don’t like it.
Ask KIA why he won’t respond to me.
Well John asking him why he won’t respond is problematic
Because he doesn’t respond
You are STILL giving them too much credit, my friend. This is not an organized assault. There is no handbook. Handbooks must be written.
Handbooks must be read.
Reading and writing is not a skill found anywhere in their ranks.
They are qualified to be fundy rednecks!
Just tell him you believe God heals. He’s not going to make a point. The Pastor is a useless coward.
KIA,
I find this comment exceedingly interesting and have a few questions about it if that is OK.
“Biblical Christianity, the kind that takes the bible at its Word and puts it into full practice, will produce these results. Damaged lives and unfortunately even dead children sometimes.”
I have been a lurker here for a while and gather that you spent a significant amount of your life as a minister in an authentic, evangelical, fundamental, Bible believing church. Is that right?
I also gather that you were not merely a member but a teacher, leader, and missionary who sometimes preached the good word from the pulpit.
If that is true, how many people have you, using the Word of God, directed to withhold food, medication, or health care to their loved ones?
How many lives are you personally responsible for damaging?
How many children became ill or died because of you and your biblical teaching?
If your depiction of Christianity on this blog is even close to accurate, then the damage you are personally responsible for in a few decades must truly be staggering.
So, what have you done to make amends for your past, KIA?
Have you turned yourself into the authorities? Have you alerted the media, police, or social services to the atrocities that most certainly must be continuing in your former church to this day?
Or is a weird campaign of hate against bloggers enough for you to right what must be countless wrongs?
Just curious.
That is the best question i have heard in a long time Robert
This is rather scathing!
But I don’t think you dumbed it down far enough for your target audience.
I hope you’re not Canadian!
Just when we were starting to become friends…
Clearly it’s because they’re Canadian, John. I have never met a Canadian, but from my extensive reading from only selected sources, I can guarantee that based upon these rock solid facts, this is exactly the kind of thing a Canadian would do.
I’m also going to call it right now: you’re going to get bagged out for using this family’s tragedy as fodder for this “small-minded, moronic indoctrination” on your blog. Any bets?
“from my extensive reading from only selected sources…”
LOL!
That’s great.
Except, I would change “reading” to “YouTube-video-watching.”
I know I haven’t done the extensive reading like you, Jasmine, but I think the exceptions might be the Gregoire family ( if you haven’t watched a Katie Gregoire video on YouTube, you’re missing out) and Celine Dion, of course.
High five! I love Katie Gregoire! She’s one of the most candid yet funny Christian on YouTube. Love her stuff. Also, she’s probably been indoctrinated to think she’s Canadian.
Haha, small world. I’ve watched her videos since “5 Things That Bug Me About Youth Group” came out. I know I’ve watched all of her stuff ( including her stuff on Project Inspired) at least twice. Needless to say- I’m a huge fan. Her and Jordan Taylor (from Blimey Cow) are my favorite vloggers on YouTube.
Katie’s sister, Becca, has a great blog too ( Life As A Dare).
I guess living in Canada is a great way to get indoctrinated into thinking you are a Canadian.
Side note: I’m sorry for hijacking your Rubik’s Cube conversation on an earlier post.
“5 things I hate about youth group” was one of the first I watched too, and it won me over. I really like the way Katie points out inconsistencies in Christian life. You are a YouTube follower after my own heart too, since you like Jordan Taylor and BlimeyCow. Huzzah! They are my most frequented channels.
Actually thankyou for hijacking it, you saved me since I didn’t have the nous to follow it up as you obviously did!
Well then, you’re welcome. And thanks for that 🙂
Yeah, they ( collectively) are the best.
Just going to put this video here because it makes me laugh every time.
https://youtu.be/v2M-fs_H-Ng
I never bet with Aussies. They ALL have gambling problems.
A fact undoubtedly based on your extensive selective research, too.