It’s a great day when an atheist affirms your faith in God.
Today is a great day.
I’ll spare the details but you can read them here if you’re interested.
A (typical) heathen lecture about his personal brilliance, resulted in a fascinating quote from Sean Carroll.
The heathen, (let’s call him ‘Tildeb’), was trying to illustrate Bayesian thinking.
*YAWN* I know! Hang in for just a couple more lines!
Because I love you very much, I will not make you read Carroll’s entire quote.
(Again…it’s here if you want to check up on me or you just like this kind of stuff.)
I’ll concentrate just on the quotes about how reasonable it is to believe in God.
“…Consider three competing theories. One says that the motion of planets and moons in the Solar System is governed…by Isaac Newton’s theories of gravity and motion. Another says that…instead every celestial body has an angel assigned to it, and these angels guide the planets…along paths that just coincidentally match those that Newton would have predicted.”
If you can count to three, you realize we only have two theories right now.
The third theory appears later in the quote (yes…there’s more).
We only need these theories to illustrate two points that Tildeb never intended to make.
Neither theory can be proven scientifically.
Adopting either theory is an act of faith.
Carroll says as much later in the quote.
But the good news for theists is this:
Angels answer questions that Newton’s theories don’t.
Newton’s theories of gravity describe the motion of planets.
They do not explain how the planets started moving in the first place.
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ― Isaac Newton
HOWEVER…
Newton’s FAITH answers that question:
“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.” ― Isaac Newton
Do angels drag the moon around?
Atheists say no.
They swap the word ‘angels’ for the word ‘gravity’.
Does gravity drag the moon around?
Atheists like that much better.
Though they’re saying the same thing.
63 Responses
Just some observations from an observer of many of these conversations….Not unbiased, but observations non the less…..
1. The position of atheism requires faith.
2. The position of Theism requires faith.
What I don’t understand is why those who most assuredly describe themselves as atheists would frequent, let alone comment on John’s blog? There are only really two options….You are either looking to be convinced or you have nothing better to do. Maybe it’s just me, maybe I’m too lazy, but I have no desire to troll atheist blogs telling atheists what whack jobs they are for believing that they came from pond scum. Yet many atheists are here…..Every….Single….Day….. Often I read the back and forth between the main players some of it is quite amusing. But really dudes (perhaps dudette) of the atheist persuasion, why are you here? THAT is the question you need to ask yourselves, after you answer WHY the planets are moving……
Respectfully,
…maybe they’re here because of the irresistible pull of my charm?
😀 That is most decidedly it!
Arkedummy (for example) hangs around because he loves JB’s sandwiches.
~
what?! JB makes sandwiches. put my order in… minus the rotting mangos and flies
Hi Steve,
The godless have often accused JB of making “shit” sandwiches. Yet ironically – as Jasmine has has alluded to – the godless are always in line when they think JB has made such a sandwich. You’d think (using godless reason) that they’d go to another line that doesn’t serve JB’s sandwiches. But that is not the case at all. If you listen carefully – you can hear them say, “I don’t like John’s sandwiches. May I please have another one?”
~
P.S. – Arkassumption chose Hitler.
thank you for the clarification.. those sandwiches would surely leave a bad taste in your mouth… however maybe useful for growing roses….
And the atheists—true to form—are suspiciously absent or unwilling to answer this question. (shock horror)
Honestly the fact that they hang around here like flies on rotting mango literally makes my day. I hope they never leave. They are an uncannily bright spot in my life.
My blog is a rotting mango?
“It’s a metaphor
Wasn’t meant to slight your blog.”
— a haiku sorry.
Yes. But the rotting mango makes her happy. Geeze! The glass is half full, my man!
Bonus: Flies evolved to eat, digest and aid decomposition of everything that rots. The Troll Flies will have that rotten mango cleaned up in no time. All the while, Jasmine is happy!
Silver linings everywhere!
Every silver lining has a raincloud. I guess John’s glass half empty outlook could be credited to having to read the comments section of his own blog. It’s hard feeling like the only sane person on the internet.
“Every silver lin-
ing has a raincloud.” Okay,
Miss Debbie-Downer.
faith is always evidence in both… “supernatural” and “billions of years”
i am always interested in those that struggle with the supernatural stuff. It seems that for what many call “supernatural” they call “billions of year”….
good point …. moving those planets is easier when the angels have wings. Thank you for the clarification
“It’s A Wonderful Life” is one of my favorite flicks. I’m very particular about the dogma.
as well you should. i take that correction very well…
was there actually a dog in the movie?
Have you never seen it?!?!??!!!
Stop what you’re doing and watch it immediately.
yes it is a classic.. and no matter how many times you watch it it touches a different part of your emotions. I may need to follow your instruction. “lasso the moon”
not to mention another planet pulling angel is created every time you hear a bell…..
Man its a wonderful life Merry christmas
I believe the bell signifies an angel getting wings. Your ‘Jimmy Stewart Movie Theology’ is messed up.
JB, please demonstrate the actual existence of angels to drag or push anything around, and then demonstrate the proof that they actually do…
Thx, I’ll be waiting. -kia
Pastor Mike, please demonstrate the actual existence of gravity to drag or push anything around, and then demonstrate the proof that it actually does…
Thx, I’ll be waiting.
(I don’t need to sign this because WordPress always labels comments…)
You should start labeling your comments.
-Someone Whose Name Is Top Left
Sorry, I’m not a cosmologist or scientist of any kind, neither did I make a claim. You did and I’m just asking for the demonstration and evidence for it.
And again, Pastor Mike goes down in a spectacular blaze of failure!
Maybe re-read the post.
Slow day at your place again? Re-read the post. Whatever you think is responsible for planetary motion can just as easily be called “angels.” If you don’t understand, then you might as well go back to your place and groom young, empty-headed girls who have daddy issues.
Everybody HERE knows you’re not qualified to talk about this stuff because you’re too literal and unimaginative.
Wow! That doesn’t seem very Christian, Mandy!
I forgot, Have a great Day!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
<3 <3 <3
My day is none of your business.
-SWNIITTL
I’m feeling pretty INCREDIBLE. (Because I matter… I matter… I matter… I matter…)
–I Thought I Knew It All, Now I Really Do
I’m not a Christian.
And I’m not an atheist.
I’m better than both!
And YOU were complaining about the haikus last time! lol.
He wants to write more.
Yet we’ve written more than him.
Guess it’s not working.
How long will it take him to post his genius question to his blog so everyone can pat him on the head for being clever?
He probably wrote the post BEFORE he commented here. lol.
I’m sure ‘Mr. Incredible’ will be able to respond to his own demand for evidence. Give him a moment to gather himself.
Empty headed girls with daddy issues? Lol… you’re projecting again.
Are you going to provide the evidence that “gravity” can’t be called “angels”?
(No.)
No… you’d have to define what angels are first and then demonstrate that they actually exist first, Gravity definitely does, to even begin to try and equate the two. Thus my question to JB. Still waiting…
You have faith that gravity has been well-defined. I thought you weren’t a cosmologist?
The point is: whatever “definition” of gravity is used can also be called “angels.” (I assume you’re picturing a blond girl with wings… that’s because you’re still a fundy at heart, and–again–did not understand the point of this post.)
Angels = Gravity
Consider your question answered.
Any objections?
You haven’t defined and demonstrated the actual existence of angels yet to support that
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
What are you dismissing?
What you have asserted without evidence
KIA: ” you’d have to define what angels are first and then demonstrate that they actually exist first, Gravity definitely does”
ME: Angels=Gravity
Whatever definition you’re using for ‘gravity’ (which you assert ‘definitely exists’) that’s what I’m calling ‘Angels’. No more. No less.
Are you dismissing gravity for lack of evidence?
I don’t think you understand the meaning of the words Define or Demonstrate. You seem to think they are they same as Assert and Declare.
They are not, and you haven’t actually defined or demonstrated anything.
You haven’t defined or demonstrated anything either. You’re not a cosmologist or scientist…Remember?
Kia has faith that cosmologists know exactly what gravity is, and that they have demonstrated it cannot also be called “angels.”
#Science
I’m sure he does. That’s why I asked him to provide it. I’m very inquisitive and eager to learn from my betters.
This is why discussion with you is fairly pointless and fruitless. Have a wonderful day
This is why discussion with you is fairly pointless and fruitless.
Have a day full of introspection and uncomfortable wrestling with truth.
At some point in your recovery, you’re going to need to pull up your panties and have an actual conversation with people who don’t think you’re super-special for de-converting. You’re fond of telling us that you don’t believe Christianity anymore. You’ve yet to tell us what you actually DO believe.
Your ideas burst into flames the moment you speak them. If you had an ounce of humility, you would consider some other ideas rather than retreating from the discussion.
Pastor Beta-Male,
You could save a little dignity by admitting that you can’t answer your own demands for evidence. The important question isn’t ‘how do the planets move?’. The important question is ‘Why are the planets moving?’
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
“Gravity may put the planets into motion, but without the divine Power, it could never put them into such a circulating motion as they have about the Sun; and therefore, for this as well as other reasons, I am compelled to ascribe the frame of this System to an intelligent Agent.” Isaac Newton.
I will put my trust in the Intelligent Agent(God). Some days I believe that atheists have far more faith than I and the rest of the time they make me glad I believe the way I do.
Atheists have A LOT more faith than you do, Jeff.
Odd, wouldn’t you say, Jeff. You don’t feel any compunction to Call Out your Brother-in-Christ for his continual asinine posts?
Should not a follower of Christ behave more Christlike, especially toward the non-believer?
Yet all Branyan does is behave like a petulant little tit and then wonders why he doesn’t win hearts or minds?
I seem to recall that Tildeb also mentioned somewhere about you being clinically insane, or something along these lines?
I won’t cite all the examples of why he ( and quite a number or readers, I would venture) consider this to be a very astute, albeit non-medical, observation, as if I find twenty ( and I’m fairly confident that wouldn’t be difficult at all) you will very likely find, and cite, at least thirty, and then write another blog post of drivel claiming to the world, or you 15,000, how the atheists are wrong again and can’t even count.
Thanks! You reminded me of a definition I had forgotten. Please see ‘Insane’…
No, the evidence definitely points to Tildeb’s description and is so much more accurate , Branyan.
After all, you automatically qualify as borderline for simply believing in the supernatural and that you have been indoctrinated to accept that you are a worthless sinner.
Not to mention the fervent, unimpeachable belief that some scruffy little make-beleive Jewish guy came back from the dead.
Couple that with all the other things …. well, it doesn’t take an Einstein to figure out the rest.
Yeah, Tildeb spotted this one. As you yanks might say … Slam Dunk?
Re-read my definition for ‘Insane’ and you will see that it is YOU who has been slam dunked.
Aah, but Branyan, an insane person would write such drivel as that, and we both know by any degree of normality, believing in the type of rubbish you do, makes you a shoe-in for a dose of happy pills.