Christian.
Is your faith blind?
Are you simply parroting your indoctrination?
Do you know why Christianity is superior to other ideologies?
…are these questions too hard?
Christian.
You’re frequently accused of being a mindless drone.
You don’t ever think.
Your faith is irrational.
You believe what you’re told to believe.
…is that true?
Can you read with discernment?
Can you handle ideas that contradict your religion?
Can you even recognize contradictory ideas?
Let’s see:
“‘Which God’? indicates there are more than one… say, the Christian tripartite god or the single Koranic Allah that calls the elevation of the prophet Jesus to be idolatry. So the question IS legitimate.
‘Which science’? indicates there’s more than one science. Well, your god is used as if it were an object, an agency, whereas ‘science’ is a method, a single method. You fail to appreciate this by suggesting science is a product and ask, “Which specific scientific discoveries have reduced God’s pocket size (note the capital used for proper nouns that indicate things).
You compound your failure by presupposing that which which science has not supported, namely that some object, some agency, made the universe. Now, I understand you are using the wrong ontology here, namely Aristotelian physics – metaphysics – to support this belief. You are using the idea of ‘natures’ – what I call the old 2D model that includes the idea of cause and effect to logically deduce a Prime or First Cause. That’s understandable. That’s what we see and encounter every day. But that’s not good science.
We as a species armed with understanding and explanations that work have moved well past that archaic ontology to a 3D interactive model (specifically of interacting fields rather than isolated articulated objects). Effect is now understood to be an inevitable product of the present. Inevitable. It makes no sense to call the present a ’cause’ when the chain is so intertwined with different fields… from the micro to the macro. That’s physics today and it indicates the universe can be understood without any need for anything other than a purely ‘natural’, unguided, purposeless, mindless physical processes that produce all kinds of marvelous emergent properties. And that order is important to grasp: not mind then processes but processes that produce mind.
Yes, science is an excellent and productive method to figure out how the universe works. And, so far, no divine agencies of any kind can be found interfering at any stage of anything discernible in the present universe. The present – and understanding the information it contains – is all the ‘god’ we need (although why anyone should include this archaic notion is nothing but problematic). So, in this sense, science is not likely to provide evidence that disproves the One who invented it because there’s no indication of any inventor there. What we find everywhere are ongoing understandable natural processes.”
Christian.
Is your faith shaken?
Are the foundations of your beliefs crumbling?
Do you have a response to these sentiments?
If not, I encourage you to become an atheist.
The heathen will welcome you into their congregation.
Tell them you used to be a Christian and you’ll be a celebrity!
They appreciate people like you.
…People who can’t read well.
…People who can’t think well.
Let’s be honest.
Giving reasons for your beliefs is difficult.
You’re probably embarrassed sometimes because you can’t answer questions.
If you become an atheist, you get credit for being super smart!
And you won’t have to explain your thoughts ever again.
256 Responses
@ Dave.
And who exactly was present to write down, remember, chisel quickly on a stone stele. when your ”lord” said these words?
John,
Here is a thought:
There has never been a time since creation where there were no true believers. There was a time when there were no atheists. And there will be again.
Dave
Romans 14:11 (ESV) – for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Here is a thought:
There has never been a time since creation where there were no true believers. There was a time when there were no atheists. And there will be again.
Here’s another thought equally valid example but just as full of Deep Thought:
There has never been a time since creation where there were no squid. There was a time when there were no non squid. And there will be again.
Umm… thanks?
Belief doesn’t work like nouns.
When you BELIEVE a person doesn’t win, it’s exactly the same as believing they lost. You can phrase belief statements as positive or negative, but they mean the same.
Therefore, disbelieving in God is exactly the same as believing there is no God. It may be a temporary belief, while you await more evidence. But–for the time being–you believe God doesn’t exist.
Do you need me to explain it again?
@ NIvek
No I’m not.
@Whateveryournickname is
I answered the Trinity question.
No, you didn’t.
Hi Arkie –
Yeah I did.
No you didn’t.
Yeah I did.
No you didn’t.
You’re weak.
~CQW
No I’m not.
Ark Garfunkle –
You’re still proving my presuppositions true every single time. Thank you.
~CQW
Make that 20 bucks. I’m confident that I’ve got Ark figured out.
Ah, look, it’s daddy Liar For Jesus. Hello John.
Perhaps you could help your daughter out with an explanation of the Trinity and morality?
Hey Ark –
Why don’t you explain morality?
And combine your answer with an answer for this …
From an evolutionary standpoint – isn’t a murdered person (sexuality really does not matter) simply unfit for survival? Remember, if your answer is NO – you must explain.
CQW
1) You forgot the tilde.
2) I’ll give you 50 bucks if Ark explains morality to you. (Same deal I made with Sweet Cheeks).
3) AN AUBURN GRADUATE?!!!!
You give your ignorance away, Kevin; the term ‘fitness’ in evolutionary biology means the rate of second generation reproduction. That understanding reveals just how ridiculous your question is.
It’s okay to be ignorant as long as you recognize it. That’s what my comment here does: it points it out. That’s my ‘gift’ to you… for whatever value you take from it.
It is a sign of an honest mind to try to rectify ignorance by first admitting what’s obvious: you don’t know but would like to know more. Wouldn’t that be a refreshing change in the commentary? It would even be the start of a productive dialogue.
But God forbid, right?
You demonstrate neither recognizing your own ignorance nor any desire at all to rectify it. Your goal here is something else entirely, and that speaks to the lack of intellectual integrity you bring to your comment.
Thanks Tildeb –
In that case – here’s the original question from several weeks ago …
From an evolutionary standpoint, aren’t murdered gays simply unfit for survival?
~CQW
Oh yeah Ark –
Trinity = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1
Prove me wrong.
Your welcome,
CQW
Oh looky what we got here … Senor Dipshit.
You’re not keeping up, Ark.
He doesn’t use that moniker anymore because it wasn’t original. You assigned it to other people. We took it upon ourselves to invent an insulting nickname that was unique.
Oh, so an insult has to be unique?
Does he need a new one, then?
We gave him a new one.
Really? What was it?
Go read the comments.
You don’t believe anything I tell you.
I’m a wretched liar.
Oh, I’ll give you this one. You can tell me.
Oh looky what we got here. Blah-blah-blah.
My presuppositions continue to be correct. You make it easy.
CQW
Oh yeah Ark Garfunkel (you’re welcome) –
1 x 1 x 1 = 1
Prove me wrong.
CQW
And Ark Garfunkel –
I answered the Trinity question.
You claim to have morality figured out. So answer it in conjunction with the other question that you refuse to answer.
Here it is again in case you say “What question would that be?”
From an evolutionary standpoint – isn’t a murdered person (sexuality really does not matter) simply unfit for survival? Remember, if your answer is NO – you must explain.
~CQW
So, once again, you still dont understand it…’
Have another go.
And you seem to have left out the Trinity…again.
What are you doing down here on a new thread, you stinker?
I asked you whether you accepted my explanation of morality?
No, I don’t.
Try again… and the Trinity, please.
You don’t accept my 6-year-old explanation OR my grown up explanation of morality?
I already said no.
And the reason being you don’t understand it.
And the Trinity, please.
You are a Christian yes?
Or are you a non Trinitarian?
I guess I don’t know what you’re looking for. Why would you reject BOTH my “simplified” explanation AND my more complicated one? You’re not just being difficult, I hope? Why would I try to explain the Trinity another way, if you’re going to reject what I say, no matter what?
Maybe you should just assume that I know what I’m talking about. Look at all the big words I used!
Because you are using a supernatural arbiter/source that you cannot explain and this is why you do not understand what you are trying to explain.
Have another go…
And the Trinity?
I don’t think you really read my explanation at all.
Really?
Have another go …
And we are still waiting for the Trinity, which is crucial to the basis of your hypothesis.
I have already said I don’t understand the Trinity well enough to explain it to other people. I gave my best example, as I would explain it to a 6-year-old. And, if anyone has a better explanation, they would have to explain it to me, on MY level…. If they could say it to me, on my level, then it would prove that THEY understand it well enough to do so.
So, if you say “Trinity” one more time, I might scream.
I’m not claiming to understand the Trinity forward and backward. Just like I don’t brag about how much Calculus I know.
I can explain “It has to do with math” to a small child, just as I can explain that the Trinity is a theory about God to a small child. But I don’t understand it.
I also don’t know very much about crocheting, jazz music, and marine biology.
Do you want to ask me over and over and over to explain that?
I also don’t claim to be some type of expert on morality. But I’ve given you two attempts (the child version AND the adult version).
Surprise, surprise, neither was good enough.
But this is a critical, foundational part of your religion.
How can you possibly accept it ( or reject it) – considering the consequences – if you do not understand it?
Surely not based upon faith?
Neither of the morality explanations were good enough because you do not understand them
Now, I am sure you understand that, yes?
I haven’t accepted or rejected it, obviously.
That’s why I’d love to have that conversation with someone who thinks they understand it.
Do you understand Morality?
So, before you reply AGAIN. make sure you fully understanding what you are writing.
Otherwise you are only going to continue to look like a fool.
Do you understand morality is just a yes/no question. It shouldn’t take too long to answer…
Yes.
Ah, then you can explain it to a 6-year-old better than I could.
Go ahead.
I already did … to my kids.
You have yet to do that.
When you do only then you will you be able to understand.
The problem you face is this: you still believe in a supernatural arbiter/source and sure as eggs are eggs you are never going to be able to understand that or explain it.
And when one of your kids asks you to explain the Trinity you will be forced to admit you haven’t a damn clue, so why the hell should they accept anything else you want to teach them about your god and your version of morality?
You brainwashed your kids into believing something you can’t even explain to me now?!?!?!
No, I will not even attempt to explain it to you simply because you believe that Yahweh, a man-made Canaanite deity is responsible for human morality.
You do not understand this so therefore you cannot explain it.
It becomes even worse when the Trinity is involved.
First we are dealing with a character, Jesus of Nazareth, from an ancient collection of texts that we know have been cobbled together and include interpolation, and outright fraud, as well as erroneous prophecies derived from the OT part of the bible, in which the Pentateuch which is acknowledged to be geopolitical myth.
Also, there is there is absolutely no verifiable evidence whatsoever for the character, Jesus of Nazareth and it is this character you claim is this creator god who is part of Triune, which you cannot explain, who you expect your kids to believe is also responsible for morality. Failure to accept this will mean at best, they will not get into heaven (another concept you cannot possible understand or explain.)
and worst, be doomed t Hell ( another christian construct) to be tortured for eternity.
Now, once again, if you think you understand it, then please explain it.
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
You somehow made the morality question about JESUS again???
How do you do that, Ark?
You literally make every, single conversation about Jesus.
My dad challenged Christians to go ahead and follow Tildeb’s teachings about “reality,” if they thought he was impressive. And then you showed up and asked about the Trinity and morality. I’ve never claimed to be an expert on either of those things. I gave the clearest explanation I could, from what I DO understand…
And now you’re talking about Jesus again?!
You crack me up.
Of course. Because you are emphatic that morality comes from god.
Your god is Yahweh/Jesus
ergo…
Well, even you aren’t that ignorant you cannot draw a line to connect this.
So, as you cannot explain how it comes from Jesus/Yahweh-your god then you obviously do not understand it, do you?
When you can explain how it does then you will understand it.
Until then… all you have is faith. And faith is believing in what you know ain’t true ( apologies to Mark Twain)
Now, I have no objections to you as an adult believing this stuff, but if you want to continue to be a liar and teach this as truth then I will always object.
But you are more than welcome to demonstrate otherwise and I will retract my statement and apologize.
What say you?
You’re right, I don’t understand:
I don’t understand how you missed the point of this post so thoroughly.
How many times do I need to ask you what I SHOULD believe instead? How many times have I told you to, please, wow me with your wise teachings?
Whenever Tildeb tries, we get a novel of incoherence, like we saw featured in this post.
Kia tells me I’m unworthy of a response.
You assure me that you understand morality, but you just don’t want to talk about it. (You’d rather talk about Jesus.)
It’s HILARIOUS!
So, I’m once again issuing the challenge to Christians: if you think that Ark and Tildeb (and JZ and Carmen, and the whole lot of them) are making great points in plain English–then follow them!
…he called me a ‘Liar for Jesus’. Should I ask for a specific example or just crumple into an emotional heap?
Just thank him for saying it plainly, in fewer than 1000 words. That’s what I usually do. 🙂
Too late…I’ve collapsed into an emotional heap. Not sure I can muster another wo…
I DO understand the basis of morality, but you don’t, as you believe is derives from a supernatural deity that you do not understand and cannot explain.
Therefore anything you say on the matter is simply vacuous.
That you attach every possible truth to this claim makes you willfully ignorant, possibly a liar and potentially dangerous.
Let me reiterate. You do not understand nor can you explain what you claim is responsible for morality.
That you claim to be a conduit for truth makes you a damn liar.
You come in.
You ask a question.
I say “I don’t know, why don’t YOU explain it?”
And that makes me a liar?
You’re not selling Atheism very well. I think the Christians are starting to see that there’s no one outside the church who has better answers…
You should do what Tildeb is and make your responses really long. Use a thesaurus and a dictionary! You might convince some people you know what you’re talking about if you ramble a little more, like he does.
50 bucks now.
I know him better than he knows himself!
You cannot preach something as truth and deride the scientific explanation when you do do nor even understand your own religious doctrine, yet feel you are compelled through revelation to indoctrinate kids who are told to believe or be damned.
Until you have developed a level of integrity where you will admit that all you have is faith then your proclamations are nothing but vacuous diatribe.
What in the world are you talking about?
Who told anyone to believe or be damned?
You’re the one throwing around phrases like “damn liar,” but no one else has said anything close to that. YOU keep bringing up specific church doctrines and trying to insist that I believe them. YOU are unable to answer any questions because YOU don’t understand what Tildeb says…or any Naturalist says… you just assume they must be smarter than you, so you go along with whatever they say is right.
I know my kids will disagree with me someday. I fully expect it. I want them to question everything I ever tell them. And then I will ask them the same thing I’m asking you.
Well, what do YOU think?
The Christian Doctrine of Hell.
Now, one more, explain morality.
And explain the Trinity.
After all, both are crucial aspects of your religion.
If you do cannot explain them then you do not understand them.
And you have no right to preach them to children.
You have no idea what my religion is, Ark.
I say what I believe to be the truth. And I encourage others to tell me when they think I’m wrong. But they can’t just say, “I don’t accept that, try again.”
I don’t “preach” to anyone. I tell my kids what I think, and I invite them to tell me what they think. That’s how people learn how to do it on their own. But you didn’t do that with yours, did you? They knew very well that Dad would be ashamed of them, if they seriously considered the idea that God exists…
For the last time: the Trinity is NOT a crucial aspect of my beliefs. I’m open to having my understanding changed. And I’m open to having my understanding of morality changed, too. Are you going to change it, or not?
You are not a Christian?
Based on the stories presented in archaic literature which are demonstrably false.
You have been shown where you are wrong, from science, anthropology, and archaeology to name three.
(I am not clued up enough on neurology but I can dirt you to those that are.)
Are you not raising your kids ( as you seem to have been) in the Christian faith?
No, my children were exposed to religion. They were educated at a Catholic school. They figured out that the religious aspects of their education were all nonsense.
So you are a dualist then?
Of course I will help. First you have to accept that your, belief in the biblical character Jesus of Nazareth – and sin, salvation etc etc – is based entirely on false premise.
Any time you are ready?
Ay, yi, yi.
Everyone else is bored with this thread, right?
I’m ready to quit.
In summary, kids, if you think Mommy is wrong about anything–ever–then ask other people. Always.
Ask geniuses like Tildeb and Ark. Ask JZ.
Read, read, read, read, constantly: the Bible, yes. But also read Richard Dawkins’ stuff. Read experts in science, anthropology, and archaeology. (But don’t let Ark tell you who to avoid. Read the stuff from Theists, too.)
And, if Ark makes sense to you, then make him your mentor.
Prediction: You are ‘running away’ because you can’t answer his questions. You are ‘ashamed’ of your beliefs.
Sorry, but I won’t even be impressed when your prediction is right. 🙂
Great. Good for you then.
So you are saying you do not, in fact, raise your kids in the christian faith? You do not take them to church with you?
Is this what you are saying?
Now you are a Christian ( unless you refute this) so explain morality and the Trinity.
I’m saying I do what ever other parent in the world does: I teach my kids what I believe to be true, and I tell them when I don’t have the answers.
Kind of like you taught your kids not to hit. And, if they said “Why?” would would say, “Evolution” or something else you’ve accepted on faith.
And I am saying you have no grounds whatsoever to teach them this as you it has been show to be false and furthermore you do not even understand it and cannot explain it in any honest way.
You do not have any answers at all
Thus you are simply inculcating very unpleasant fiction that is proved to potentially have long term negative emotional and neurological effects.
And this doctrine that you impart is based on unsubstantiated claims from a fallacious ”book” called the bible.
Your religion is based entirely on false premise.
A lie in other words.
So why would you lie to your kids?
You’ve not proven one thing I’ve said false.
Not one.
Or have you forgotten how little I’ve actually made claims? Mostly, I’ve asked questions, and you have insisted that I tell you something….and when I say, “This is what I think, but I could be wrong. Can you correct me?” Then you claim I’m “evading.”
I’ve told JZ to burn the Bible.
I’ve told you I don’t care what name we give to God.
I’ve asked ALL of you to tell me where morality comes from, if it wasn’t built into us by a Code Writer.
So, here’s an interesting question for you, Ark. I’m genuinely curious: how is it that you sent your kids to a Catholic school, for several hours, multiple days a week, but they’re fine? But you’re grilling me about taking my kids to church on ONE day for ONE hour a week?
How did you keep your kids from becoming indoctrinated?
Are you a Christian?
Depends on who you ask. It seems that fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Atheists both don’t think so.
If “Christian” means I’m not allowed to ask questions, and if it means I have to believe a specific list of things regardless of what the evidence says, then no. I’m not a Christian. I ask too many questions for that.
And I totally don’t blame you for avoiding that last one that I asked you.
Here it is again: How did your kids avoid being indoctrinated in their Catholic school? I want to tell my kids whatever you told yours, so that mine will be able to avoid brainwashing…
Are you a Christian?
Oh, I’ll answer it right after you tell me if you are a Christian, or, if you prefer, a believer (follower) of the character Jesus of Nazareth?
I’ve been down this road with you a million times.
Do you think I’ve forgotten?
You will only take a yes/no answer.
And then, if I say “Yes” you will tell me all the things I have to believe in order to be a Christian.
If I say “No” then you will call me a liar for all the times I’ve self-identified as a Christian.
If I give you a yes-and-no answer, you will tell me I’m evading.
Remember the incident when you promised to talk about C.S. Lewis, if I just answered one little question about Jesus?….. and then it turned into about six questions, and I never answered in a way that made you happy?
I’m not answering that stupid, off-topic question, Ark.
50 bucks if he answers that question.
…you can make it $50 million.
He doesn’t know how to answer questions…
Because the school hosted pupils from all walks of life and all faiths.
It was a private school and not subject to the laws of Apartheid. Another reason we decided to place our kids there.
It was understood by parents that there would be religious instruction but attendance to services etc was never compulsory.
As religion was never really discussed in the home , (other than in passing) science, logic, and critical thinking was the norm.
Jesus etc was merely background noise.
So are you a follower (believer) of Jesus of Nazareth?
Still not answering that question.
So, you’re saying that letting kids hear opinions from all sorts of backgrounds is a good way to teach them to think for themselves.
I totally agree! That was the point of this post.
We’re encouraging Christians to listen to the Atheists’ response to the most common human questions. And–if one of my kids likes what they hear from Atheists–they ought to become one.
I’m serious!
So, you’re saying that letting kids hear opinions from all sorts of backgrounds is a good way to teach them to think for themselves.
Yes.
Then maybe we are in agreement.
But just to clarify.
Do you bring your children up in the christian faith?
I literally don’t even know what that means.
I can’t explain my parenting style any clearer. I tell them what I believe to be true.
So: just to clarify, did you tell your children they shouldn’t hit each other?
Is this (partly or wholly) based on your belief that Jesus of Nazareth is your god and that salvation is a necessary requirement of this belief?
I can’t remember. And that is the honest truth. They were (still are) the closest siblings I have ever encountered.
You know why I’m asking, Ark…
The vast majority of things we teach our kids are just things our parents taught us. Most of us never question “why?”
WHY shouldn’t we hit?
WHY shouldn’t we kill gays?
We’ve had this conversation before…and the only answer you could give me was “evolution.” Remember? That’s literally the reason you gave. One word. Because “evolution.”
That tells me you don’t know what you believe or why. You just hope the people who say we don’t need God are correct.
We don’t need any god. This is clearly de demonstrated throughout secular society.
So, by not answering I am going to presume you do are raising your children in the christian faith – after all you and your father are christians and you got it from somewhere -and this means you are inculcating doctrine that is based on unfounded biblical claims.
In other words you are feeding them lies.
And this is what indoctrination is all about.
And as you don’t understand morality you cannot explain it to your kids.
Which unfounded biblical claim have I inculcated?
Oh, are you part of this discussion John?
Are you not a Christian then after all?
Which unfounded biblical claim have I inculcated?
Well, if you are a Christian …. then all of it.
Then you are inculcating unfounded claims as well.
I am not a Christian.
I do not lie.
If you are an atheist…everything you profess is a lie.
See how it works for both of us?
Smile.
You have evidence to back your belief?
Start with the need for salvation.
Smile.
Do you have evidence to back your claim?
Start with a specific unfounded biblical teaching.
Don’t continue to behave like a Dickhead, John.
I offered you a prime example: Salvation.
Start with this.
Smile.
Back to name calling. Impressive display of intellectualism. You atheists are such astute philosophers!
You made an accusation.
Either back it up with evidence or retract it.
Specifically, which unfounded biblical claim am I guilty of inculcating?
I have backed it up: you are a Christian and so is your daughter.
I see.
Well, you are an atheist and atheists always lie.
Atheists also eat babies.
Maybe some do?
But atheism is simply the denial of gods.
Theism is tantamount to abuse.
Look at you.
The denial of gods is tantamount to abuse. Atheism makes people kill themselves.
Really? Can’t think of a single person I am aware of that cited atheism as the reason to top themselves.
However, if we were to scratch a little we might find a number of cases where religion is cited. Your religion for a kick off.
After all, for some kids/people, the guilt and shame heaped upon them by certain christian cults must make the thought of topping themselves an easier way out.
Atheists actually HOPE that people will kill themselves. Atheists don’t care about people. They only care about eating babies and causing harm.
This is obvious throughout history.
I think you are simply a fucking idiot, John.
Will you be praying to Jesus in church on Sunday?
Atheists abuse children.
Based on the evidence I would venture that’s your bag , John.
Atheists lie about having evidence for claims. They project their evil onto other people.
You’re not well, are you?
When confronted with conversations they don’t like, atheists accuse people of being sick. This has been proven by psychology, biology and social sciences. Atheists hate sunshine and cleanliness.
Hate sunshine?
Tell me do people actually laugh at your gigs?
Atheists hate laughter. This is clearly demonstrated throughout culture.
I must be an exception, then. I have been laughing at you for quite some time.
There are no exceptions. Atheists are identical in their thinking as a result of their indoctrination. The evidence is undeniable. All atheists are anarchists.
Do you only do church gigs John?
Atheists threaten children with eternal damnation for not believing in Winnie the Pooh.
I’ll have to leave just now as the football is on.
Is it true that many comedians ( and in your case I use that term very loosely ) have quite serious emotional issues?
What’s true is that atheists have smaller brains than theists. Atheists will steal money from their loved ones because of evolution.
Actually I only steal from homeless christians. And also let the air out of their wheelchair tires for good measure.
Smile.
Got any evidence to prove those claims?
If you see several flat-tired christian wheelchair people holding signs asking for bicycle pumps would that suffice?
Yes
I’ll point them out if you ever get a gig down here.
You’re a photographer…
You have a point?
Yeah. But it’s no fun when I have to spell it out for you.
I’m going to do a show. Gotta leave you to puzzle out what just happened.
Have you ever done the joke of Jesus on a rubber cross?
Always gets a laugh.
Or the one about Jesus biting his nails?
The last miracle of Jesus scratching his nose while on the cross will have them falling out the pews.
So, the salvation , John.
Any thoughts?
Atheists are responsible for every atrocity ever committed throughout history.
So how we going with the Salvation, John?
I’ve already responded to that question. You are an atheist.
I thought you never presume anything?… 😉
You do need God. For the vast majority of human history (and even still, in remote tribes) humans give respect to the Creator. They call him different names, but they seek to worship the one who made this world…until secularists tell them that “evolution” explains all of those instincts without a need for God.
So…young people are told they are made of the same stuff as dirt.
Particles.
They’re told everything they feel is just a result of an unplanned accident.
They are told there is no greater Purpose…there is only the meaning that we make up and give each other.
They’re told those things, despite the intuition that everything happens for a reason.
It absolutely baffles me that you secularist keep saying with a straight face that we don’t need God…that we’re doing just fine without him. You really think things are going well?
Because YOUR child wasn’t the one who killed himself?
The suicide rate is up 60% in the last 45 years. SIXTY PERCENT. Why do you think these young people are so depressed?
Yes–we have a biological need for love and truth and hope. And your best explanation of all three is “particles.”
Your worldview is killing people.
Here we go again. I have no further use in dialogue with someone who willfully lies to their children.
Your worldview is killing people
You admitted to considering killing yourself. And you are a Christian.
The first world war involved nations that all believed in the Judaic Christian god and one that believed in Allah.
And you still have not explained which god you think we all need.
When you sort your own head out, then maybe we can have a reasonable conversation?
But while you still adhere to your illusion/delusion….
I think for myself.
That’s why I wanted to die.
It was because I realized people like you didn’t have ANY answers, and that you were perfectly happy just making fun of Christians for the rest of your life instead of asking these questions for yourself.
Yes–people who claim to believe in God have done some horrible things.
The real question is: if there is no God, WHO CARES?
I care! Because such people fuck up the world I live in because of espousing lies – just like you!
No… According to Materialism, you “care” because the particles in your brain are moving in a way that make you feel an emotion we call “caring.” Those particles mindlessly evolved to do whatever would ensure survival–the only purpose is WHATEVER it takes to survive.
There is no “because” other than that. It just happened. Like when we evolved to have five fingers instead of six. If you try to give truth-and-lies some great, noble meaning beyond that, you’re just telling yourself your life is more important than it is.
That’s the godless worldview.
Lies are just words that make Homo sapiens upset. Truth is just agreeing with the majority of other Homo Sapiens. None of it really “matters;” it all came from the same mindless nothing, for no reason.
That’s the worldview that young people have begun to accept. And, when they ask Tildeb what’s the point of mocking Christians until we die, they get half-answers and circular explanations. When they ask people like YOU, they get nothing. Why is Richard Dawkins wrong about rape being arbitrary? (I don’t know. I just don’t agree with him.) Why is Clarence Darrow wrong that murderers can’t help what they did? (I don’t know. I just don’t agree with him.) Why is Alex Rosenberg wrong that everything we “care” about is just an illusion? (I don’t know. I won’t read his book, even though he’s an Atheist, because the book was recommended by a Christian, and I think Christians are stupid.)
Without God, nothing matters.
And THAT’S why young people are killing themselves.
I care because having indoctrinated individuals like you at large is cause for concern.
Before long you will be denying evolution and demanding ID is taught in schools and actually believing some smelly little Jewish rabbi was nailed to a pole and the came back from the dead.
Yes, that level of stupidity we need to resist whenever we can.
Otherwise one day some Dickhead might claim his god spoke to him and told him to invade some country or hijack a fucking plane and fly it into a skyscraper.
Oh, wait a moment….. oops.
You didn’t understand a word I said, did you?
Or is the name-calling your defense mechanism when things get too uncomfortable?
I don’t blame you for not addressing what I’m telling you…. honestly embracing Naturalism will make you want to kill yourself.
Hasn’t so far with me.
Maybe you are a special case?
That’s because you haven’t honestly embraced Naturalism, as I’ve already explained.
Every time I try to share what consistent Atheists have to say, you ignore it. It goes over your head.
You insist on continuing to pretend that the only trouble with the world is “indoctrination” (and specifically God-flavored indoctrination).
You absolutely refuse to consider that maybe you’re the one living in an echo-chamber of your own making. Not me.
But I don’t believe my life needs an invisible friend to give it meaning. You do.
And you base this worldview on absolutely no verifiable evidence whatsoever.
Don’t you think that’s just a tad ridiculous?
I recognise the Bible from whence you derive your god/gods is simply geopolitical myth and there was nobody called Jesus of Nazareth – he is simply a narrative construct. A work of fiction.
You’re either, indoctrinated or willfully ignorant.
I can’t think of a third option.
Well, I can , of course, but I am not medically qualified to pass that judgment.
So , between the two of us, who is really pretending?
Er … clue. It ain’t me babe ( as Robert Zimmerman once sang)
Nope, you’re STILL not getting it.
You admit to avoiding perspectives that are different from yours.
In the last few weeks, you have said you don’t need to read C.S. Lewis because Jerry Coyne doesn’t like him. You have said you don’t need to explain why you disagree with Dawkins, Darrow, and Rosenberg when it comes to Determinism. You’ve said you “don’t do” philosophy, even though Natural Philosophy is the foundation on which all of science is built. You don’t understand it!
And, after I shared DOZENS of quotes from brilliant scientists, you simply stopped reading them, because you couldn’t argue against what they were saying. (Again, I believe you didn’t understand any of it.)
“Meaning” is an illusion, Ark.
It’s just particles, which our ancestors called “meaning” because they were primitive twits who didn’t know what a “particle” is. Right?
Isn’t that what Naturalism teaches?
So why do you believe in Jesus of Nazareth?
Evasion!
Coward!
JB–how much do you want to bet that Ark doesn’t understand his own beliefs well enough to explain them to a 6-year-old. 🙂
You’re not supposed to use the F-Word with a 6-year-old so…
As long as he can say the “E-Word,” then he might be okay.
“Hey, Dad, is there any reason we’re continuing to spin on this planet in the middle of nowhere…struggling for survival?”
Ark: “Evolution.”
“Thanks, Dad!”
Ark: “Oh, and taking pictures by day and swearing at Christians by night. That’s enough to keep a warm ball of carbon busy forever!”
Atheists have to take pictures to keep them from eating babies. It’s proven throughout history.
You’re not helping… 🙂
If there’s one thing we should have figured out by now, it’s that this group doesn’t know when they’re being teased, and they can’t pass a rabbit trail without following it.
(**Edit: I guess that was two things.)
I’m not trying to help.
This is just for entertainment purposes.
I know. And, I’ll admit, I laughed at the cleanliness and sunshine line.
You should start sharing random quotes with him.
He won’t understand them–but if there are a few big words–he might be impressed!
This is what depravity looks like. He doesn’t even realize he’s arguing with himself at this point. I am offering unsubstantiated claims and he hasn’t called me out for it.
He doesn’t notice a difference between the nonsense I’m spewing now and the honest attempts at conversation I’ve made in the past.
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-depravity-of-man-is-at-once-the-most-empirically-verifiable-reality-but-at-the-same-malcolm-muggeridge-50-48-48.jpg
Lol, meanwhile, this comedian thing really has them twisted.
Is it more insulting to say you’re not funny?
Or that they laugh at you all the time?
They can’t decide!
Which makes me laugh!
Insults are a tricky thing to dispense. You need to have credibility with the person you’re trying to insult or they will be ineffective. Also, insults need to be based in truth.
Watching them go back and forth between “You’re not a successful comic” and “I’m laughing at you” is gold.
Evolution explains atheist irrationality.
I’ve actually suggested that to him before!
I said, “It’s okay. It’s not your fault that you don’t understand what I’m saying. You just evolved this way.”
And….
….
….
He didn’t understand what I said. 🙂
It’s kind of funny how we can have this conversation in the same comment thread and he remains oblivious. Any doubt that we’re not really conversing with him?
I literally made a comment to him about how he’s just wasting away, taking pictures and watching sports, BEFORE he told you he needed to take a break for football.
#CalledIt
Football is soccer where he comes from. I don’t want you to get THAT wrong too.
I know.
I said he wasted time watching SPORTS. And then he said football was on.
It’s still a sport, right? lol
Whether or not soccer is a sport is a discussion for another time…
One thing is for sure: it’s definitely a good way for godless individuals to distract themselves from the tough questions they can only answer with faith.
😀
Beliefs,Amanda.
So Jesus of Nazareth? You believe in him, yes or no?
Surely you are not ashamed to say one way or another?
1 Peter 3:15
It’s like the Twilight Zone, the way you keep trying to control the same conversation over and over and over.
Go ahead and ask that question again. I’ll laugh. And then ask it again. I’ll laugh again.
Since you “don’t do” philosophy, I’ll go ahead and explain this to you (like you’re 6-years-old). What you’re trying to do is called the “Tu Quoque” logical fallacy. That translates to “You Too.” It’s what people do when they are backed into a corner, so they point at the other person and say, “YOU’RE WRONG, TOO!”
In this case, you’re starting to see that most of what you believe is by blind faith. (Not the reasonable faith that JZ likes to talk about. Not the faith that is based on evidence, like you keep repeating. But your beliefs are based on blind faith in the things your Atheist teachers/professors have taught.)
So, now you’re attempting to show that your blind faith isn’t as stupid as whatever you think I was taught by whatever teachers I’VE had.
But–even if my beliefs are stupid, it doesn’t save yours.
Your first mistake was assuming that Atheists are trustworthy and Christians are all brainwashed. Some Atheists may use big words, so I can understand why you’d think they know what they’re talking about.
But if you don’t understand what Tildeb and JZ and Dr. Coyne and Dr. Dawkins are talking about–if you can’t summarize what they’re saying in your own words–it’s really dumb to follow them.
I am not particularly interested on what those you mentioned think or write at this juncture, but I am very interested if you believe in Jesus of Nazareth?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Of course you’re “very interested” in what I believe about Jesus.
Everyone in the world is interested in the topic of God-becoming-a-man, from the moment they hear the news. Jesus is such a stumbling block, that people will devote their whole lives to researching and talking about him–even though they HATE him!
It’s crazy.
But at least it distracts them from their own beliefs, so they won’t try to kill themselves…
Who would hate a narrative construct?
That’s like hating Winnie the Pooh.
What’s crazy is believing Winnie the Pooh was a real talking bear.
Very much in the same vein as believing Jesus of Nazareth was real.
Only, nobody threatens kids with eternal damnation and torture for not believing in Winnie the Pooh., now do they?
More parroting. What a surprise.
So, do you follow Jesus of Nazareth?
Or are you simply a deist and only pretend to be a Christian when it is suitable?
So…
Are you really okay with the fact that you’re taking pictures, watching sports, and swearing at Christians until you vanish from the earth?
Does that fulfill you?
Fulfill?
Well, it passes the time….
And if you are talking shit with me you aren’t contemplating doing nasty things.
Sorry, Sweet Cheeks, have to go.
Football is on in three minutes.
You’ll have to amuse yourself, unless that is a sin?
Good idea.
Numb the mind.
Don’t think too much about the questions I’ve asked and how little you understand, because it will make you realize how stupid and pointless football is.
…and then you might want to kill yourself.
Is that why you nearly did?
In part. I never liked sports.
But I had a brand new baby with perfect blue eyes–and even HE seemed pretty pointless.
The hormones that make you feel “love” and “joy” are just mindless instincts, right? They ONLY exist for survival, right?
Atheists eat babies.
Half time.
Good game , too. Everton are 1-0 up.
And then you discovered your god and realized that your kid wasn’t pointless after all. Is this how it was?
I asked YOU whether my kid is pointless, remember? Did you miss it?
Here it is again: the hormones we know as “love” and “joy” are just mindless instincts, right? They ONLY exist for survival, right?
(That “right?” means “correct me if I’m wrong.”)
You are wrong.
Wow, thanks! That would have made me feel loads better three years ago!…
End Sarcasm.
You actually didn’t “correct me.” How/Why am I wrong. And if you can’t give me an answer, then I’m going to have to assume you’ve never thought about this–and you only accept whatever another Atheist tells you is true.
No, stupid, you wrote this:
I know what I wrote.
Sorry, I thought you were keeping up.
I asked whether I was wrong that love and joy are just hormones. They ONLY exist for our survival.
And you said that was wrong.
So…why? Why/how is that wrong?
NO, you did not ask me if I thought you kid was pointless.
YOU wrote “”But I had a brand new baby with perfect blue eyes–and even HE seemed pretty pointless.”
I think you need to lie down never mind keep up.
BTW are you in the habit of producing pretty pointless kids.
Perhaps that’s what’s you think the meaning of prescription is for?
Scroll up.
I bet you I did.
Maybe I was going too fast again, but I thought you were following along.
I started out by saying that sports and photography are your way of numbing your mind so that you don’t have to think about life’s toughest questions. I said sports help distract you from wanting to kill yourself.
You asked if that’s why I was suicidal, so I said:
Timestamp 7:01–
“I never liked sports. But I had a brand new baby with perfect blue eyes–and even HE seemed pretty pointless. The hormones that make you feel “love” and “joy” are just mindless instincts, right? They ONLY exist for survival, right?”
Timestamp 7:51–
“And then you discovered your god and realized that your kid wasn’t pointless after all. Is this how it was?”
Timestamp 8:23–
“I asked YOU whether my kid is pointless, remember? Did you miss it? Here it is again: the hormones we know as “love” and “joy” are just mindless instincts, right? They ONLY exist for survival, right? (That “right?” means “correct me if I’m wrong.”)”
Timestamp 8:55–
“You are wrong.”
Timestamp 9:00–
“You actualy didn’t correct me. How/Why am I wrong…”
Maybe I need to treat you like a 6-year-old again. Here it goes:
When I was depressed, I didn’t care about sports or photography. I didn’t even “care” about my own newborn baby. I didn’t immediately feel the love and joy that I was told I was “supposed” to feel.
Luckily, I don’t base my life on my feelings. I reasoned through it and started looking for the truth.
And the TRUTH–according to a Naturalist–is that all of our feelings are just instincts for survival. Isn’t that right? Tell me how that’s wrong.
Post-partum depression is quite common.
I have no idea how many women feel suicidal, but having a gun in the house is a frakking stupid idea.
And did your faith in your god solve all your problems?
Faith in God didn’t solve all of my problems.
And thank God I wasn’t relying on you, either.
You would have been ZERO help.
So you had faith before or after?
Game time!
Every time you ask a question, I get a point.
So, one point to you.
Ask your question.
Make it an intelligent one or you lose a point.
I’ve asked it multiple times, in different ways, and you’re evading as you always do because it’s a very, very uncomfortable question.
When I was thinking that life is pointless, was I wrong?
If I was wrong, then HOW was I wrong?
If for nothing else responsibility.
You made a child and you had a responsibility to him.
However, as your mind was addled because of chemical imbalance you were unable to think straight.
Under more normalised circumstances you would no doubt have thought entirely differently.
Obviously you haven’t thought this through.
I know that people who don’t think for themselves believe that depression is just a chemical imbalance. People will tell a depressed person that they SHOULD feel a certain way, and if they don’t, then they’re not feeling right…
That’s why I asked you: aren’t the feelings that we call “love” and “joy” just chemicals that ONLY exist for our survival? Is that wrong? (And if it’s wrong, how is that wrong?)
Yes, I have. More than you might imagine.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/postpartum-depression/basics/causes/con-20029130
Causes
By Mayo Clinic Staff
There’s no single cause of postpartum depression, but physical and emotional issues may play a role.
Physical changes. After childbirth, a dramatic drop in hormones (estrogen and progesterone) in your body may contribute to postpartum depression. Other hormones produced by your thyroid gland also may drop sharply — which can leave you feeling tired, sluggish and depressed.
Emotional issues. When you’re sleep deprived and overwhelmed, you may have trouble handling even minor problems. You may be anxious about your ability to care for a newborn. You may feel less attractive, struggle with your sense of identity or feel that you’ve lost control over your life. Any of these issues can contribute to postpartum depression.
These obviously cause chemical imbalances.
Is that so?
And what people told you this? Your doctor, your folks, your farking minister?
So survival is the only point?
We just exist so that we can keep existing? Some of us have hormones that make us “happy” to do it, and others don’t enjoy it so much, until we find the “right” combination of drugs to make them feel like they “should” so that they don’t mind continuing to survive.
Is that right?
Why would you consider that survival is the only point?
The feelings we have are crucial for survival, in a similar way as pain receptors/nerves inform us hen the strove is hot.
They are there to protect us.
We exist so that we can keep existing
This makes no sense.
Are you asking about purpose?
I was trying to clarify your last answer.
Yes, I’m asking about purpose.
I said, “What’s the point?”
People need hope and purpose.
Well, as for purpose, you have your kids.
Is that not worthwhile?
People are learning in biology class that what they feel for their kids is exactly the same as what a drug addict feels when he shoots up.
Exactly the same.
Chemicals.
Why is parenthood full of purpose but getting high isn’t?
I smoked marijuana once and fell off the toilet.
I don’t recall anyone ever telling me it is exactly the same as how I feel for my kids. And I never fell off the toilet after holding either of them either.
I think maybe you have some fucked up biology teachers in your country, or you have completely misunderstood what was trying to be explained.
Under the circumstances I am tempted to opt for eh latter.
Why do you think parenthood is the same as getting stoned?
Did you never see Trainspotting?
It’s dopamine and seratonin, Ark.
All of it is designed to increase the effects of dopamine and seratonin.
Of course, illicit drugs have some side effects that aren’t enjoyable… but so does parenthood. 😉
Some people really, really, really like their drugs/alcohol. Some like their drug more than their families.
What’s wrong with that?
Tell me , Amanda, do take night classes on How to Be so Fucking Stupid, or does it actually come quite naturally to you?
Why don’t you ask your god for the answer?
Like I said…it’s very, very, very uncomfortable for people to consider these questions.
And the people who honestly ask THEMSELVES these questions usually find it’s easier to kill themselves than to try and find someone else brave enough and smart enough to try and understand.
What questions? You are just rabbiting on a load of nonsense.
I do not find anything uncomfortable about such questions.
I would get a ”runners high” after about 90 minutes on the road.
But I recognised the reality of what was going on. It didn’t stop me from acting responsibly toward my family or any other area of my life.
The real issue is why do you feel so very very very uncomfortable , Amanda?
I’m talking about the question that you avoided by spitting, “Why don’t you ask your god for the answer???”
You might not be uncomfortable. Maybe you have no idea what I’m talking about. Or maybe you are too prideful to say, “I’ve thought about these things before, and I have no idea why I believe that the dopamine/seratonin that parents feel is better than the dopamine/seratonin that drug addicts feel.”
Do you get a rush of dopamine/seratonin when you’re calling Christians names?
When you talk about “responsibility,” you’re once again making it sound more important than Naturalism allows. Naturalism says it’s just particles. The feeling you get that you’re being “responsible” to your family is just: your brain drugging you.
OR–if that’s not true, then where does the idea that you should be “responsible” come from?
Maybe you need to stop talking nonsense and ask a sensible question and frame in in a way that does not allude to your faith based god belief which comes across that you are simply a pissed-off christian with a fucking chip on her shoulder?
Once you at least try to act like an adult then maybe I will respond in kind?
Have a go, Amanda. I know it will be a new experience for you but I think you might enjoy it and then you will be able to read a response from me that does not reflect the utter disdain I feel for your current worldview.
You want an adult conversation? Then behave like an adult.
Start by answering why you are a Christian.
I see we’re back to the name-calling and assumptions that all Christians have bad motives.
As always, Ark, it’s very easy to see why you’re an Atheist.
You don’t WANT to believe in God. That’s it.
What god are you talking about Amanda?
Point for me.
YAY!
You are a child. And a rather disturbed one at that….
New rule:
I get a point every time you call me a name, too.
Let me know, if you want me to keep asking questions to help you learn to think for yourself, instead of parroting the Tildebs of the world.
Otherwise, try to get some sleep without thinking about the fact that SA’s teen suicide rate is even higher than the UK and the USA…
You seem preoccupied with this?
And it has absolutely nothing to do with any lack of god-belief.
You were at this point and didn’t follow through, now did you?
So, I need to know why you believe in Jesus of Nazareth?
There can be no moving on in any meaningful sense unless you are open and honest about this.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Let’s see…. I get at least two points there. (Maybe three, if you count the question mark after your first sentence.)
I’m preoccupied with this topic because I don’t believe you’ve thought it through. I think you find out whether someone is an Atheist or a Christian BEFORE you decide whether to believe what they’re saying.
I don’t think you know how to think for yourself.
What’s the difference between a parent “bonding” with a baby and a druggy “bonding” with a lit joint?
Go ahead and tell me it’s a stupid question, but I know what you mean is, “It’s a question I can’t answer.”
What exactly is it that you think I have not thought through?
If you have so much faith in the rightness of Christianity then it’s about time you explained why you believe in Jesus of Nazareth?
Do this and I will gladly answer your questions.
Another point for me!
“What’s the difference between a parent ‘bonding’ with a baby and a druggie ‘bonding’ with his joint?”
A joint won’t pee on you as you pick it up.
My turn.
Why do you believe in Jesus of Nazareth.
Great answer!
That ought to fill people with a renewed sense that life really matters!
Lol.
If you have popped over to my blog you will know by now that blogger, Archaeoperyx passed away a few days ago.
He succumbed to lung cancer.
He only found out two weeks ago, apparently.
Imagine that sentence hanging over you?
I can’t judge you for why you wanted to take your own life, but as sure as a camel shits in the desert, Jesus of Nazareth isn’t ever going to do a thing for you.
So, irrespective of all your metaphysical meanderings, one has to wonder why you believe in him?
That’s a pretty impressive faith in your belief that Jesus isn’t God, Ark!
But, as sure as a camel shits in the desert, telling stories about people who died isn’t an answer to my question.
You can even change it a little bit, to apply to Archaeopteryx, if you want: What’s the difference between an animal grieving over a dead friend and a drug addict going through withdrawal?
Yes, you really are not well.
And on that note, insomnia or not, I shall retire for the night.
I know, I know.
blah, blah, blah,
Everyone who thinks about things you’re too scared to consider is sick…
Same old song.
Add another question to the list of ones Ark can’t answer.
An afterthought ….
The real problem I am having in trying to have a conversation with someone who is mentally unbalanced is that I am trying to have a conversation with someone who is mentally unbalanced.
And on a more serious note, are you still seeing a professional counselor?
Another point!
It’s funny when someone as experienced in the mental health field as you are asks that question…
What really terrifies you is that you know I’m actually sane.
Not at all in actual fact. What is of concern is you are fully religiously indoctrinated, your father approves and encourages it, you have a record ( according to you) of attempted suicide and you have kids.
Not necessarily a healthy combination.
But as you note, I am not a mental health professional, so maybe maintaining a delusion does help to keep you ”sane” ( for any given value of sane of course) .
But I think I’ll just sub in future.
I often enjoy ”off the wall”, but you and your father don’t even make it to the pallet of bricks.
I’d pray fr you but I canlt decide which would be the best god for the job?
When someone has figured out that food makes them feel better, are they insane? No. They’re just doing what they were built to do: responding to their bodies cues. They eat when they NEED it.
And people need the kind of hope that is only found in God.
That sounds pretty sane to me. 🙂
I think the people who ask their deepest, most honest questions are more trustworthy than anyone else. Honest question-askers are the bravest. And you know they’re being honest when they are willing to listen to anyone–everyone–to find an answer. But you’re not being honest…
You assume people like Tildeb are speaking truth, even when you don’t understand a word. And then you assume people like me are indoctrinated and unstable, even when you don’t understand what I’m saying, either. When in doubt, trust the one who calls himself an Atheist. That’s kind of your motto.
How has that been working out for you?
———-
You’ve been asked: “What’s the difference between what a woman feels for her new baby and what a druggie feels for his joint?”
Or, “What’s the difference between animals who mourn for their dead and a druggie who goes through withdrawal?”
Naturalism says it’s basically the same thing.
If you don’t believe the world was built for a purpose, then the only difference is that YOU feel better about kids than marijuana. And, since YOU have been taught to think that birth is beautiful and dope is irresponsible, you demand that others feel the same. The consistent and honest Naturalist would say that everyone should get high however they want, because it’s all chance any way. I’ve read articles and books by many of those consistent Naturalists, and they are better thinkers (and more honest) than you are. They don’t try to call people crazy for asking perfectly rational questions. It’s a good question.
“Why do you give special meaning to the high that comes with childbirth, but you don’t give special meaning to the high people give themselves with drugs?” Where did you get that meaning?
Subbing.
??
I have no idea what that means.
Means I am subscribing just to follow …
If in the future you write anything intelligent I may comment.
Until then …… Sweet Cheeks?
Yeah, you get to decide what’s intelligent and what isn’t….
Kind of like Tildeb gets to decide what’s “reality” and what isn’t…
It’s no surprise at all that neither of you seems able to find God! 😉
And, to bring this post full circle, the challenge remains for people who consider themselves Christians. If the Atheists seem like they’ve got their senses together–join them!
Subbing ….
Here’s a picture…
https://blog.nus.edu.sg/reslife/files/2016/06/55468584-1mm41q9.jpg
excuse the typos and forgetting not to close the brackets.
Atheists switch the labels on over the counter medicines at the drug store. Experts confirm this as fact.
If you get an explanation of morality out of him, I’ll give you 10 bucks.
Make that 20 bucks. I’m confident that I’ve got Ark figured out.
I can’t wait until my kids are old enough to ask tough questions. I can’t wait to say, “You know–I’m not sure! What do you think?” 🙂
Maybe they’ll change the way I understand God…
In fact, I really HOPE they do.
I can’t wait to see all the unexpected ways my kids think differently from me… Because it will be a relief to have constructive disagreements with people who know how to think critically…. as opposed to people who are just DISAGREEABLE.
Think you’re gonna get 20 bucks outta me?
@MrsMc.
1. Explain the Trinity.
2. Explain morality.
I’ve never heard a 6-year-old use the word “trinity” OR “morality,” Ark.
But, if they did, I would say, “Wow….where did that come from? We were talking about something else completely! But I’ll go ahead and do my best to explain, because you’re six, and I never miss an opportunity to encourage a child to be curious.”
Then I would say:
1. Morality is the feeling that we should do certain things and we shouldn’t do other things. God gave everyone a feeling that we should act certain ways, even though we break our own rules some times.
2. “The Trinity” is something I don’t understand well enough to explain for you… kind of like Calculus. (6-year-old, “What’s calculus?” Me: “It has to do with math.”) But, the best I can explain the Trinity is that God talks to people, wearing three different costumes. Someday, when you’re older, it would be great if you can tell me whether you think God really does that, and why or why not.
So you don’t understand.
That was all you had to say.
Well, I think I understand well enough to explain it to a 6-year-old.
Didn’t I do an okay job?
But the difference, of course, is that I don’t go to other people’s blogs (when they’re writing about the Trinity) and say, “HEY EVERYONE! THIS GUY DOESN’T KNOW WHAT HE’S TALKING ABOUT! If you want to know about reality, you need to look somewhere else!” That’s what Tildeb does. And then, when you ask Tildeb to explain what he means by reality, he writes 10000 words that go in circles.
So, now I get to ask YOU a question: can you summarize Tildeb’s comment from the original post? (In case you didn’t know, the comment which was featured was Tildeb’s) Do you understand his comment well enough to boil it down for me?
Your ignorance of what Einstein’s quote really means is showing.
Let me help you out.
If YOU do not understand it then you haven’t sufficient knowledge to explain it to a six year old, let alone me.
Now, try again.
Ahhh, I get it.
So, you don’t understand what Tildeb is saying. But you assume that it still made sense.
Tildeb is just smarter than you, right?
He Probably is.
Now, let’s see you have another crack at explaining the Trinity and Morality.
I already explained those things simply. Are you going to ask over and over and over and over?
You’re really good at this 6-year-old role!
And, here’s the good news: if you’re going to just assume that Tildeb is making sense, even though you can’t understand what he’s saying, you’re doing exactly what this post encourages people to do. Be an Atheist! Make Tildeb your Leader!
I’m sure he totally understands everything he types! (LOL!!!!!!!)
You did not explain them you expounded an opinion based on unsubstantiated claims.
Now, once again explain them.
But let me help you out.
I will consider that I am a 6 yr. old.
”What is God, MrsMcmommy?”
Builds on that. Away you go.
I already answered for the 6-year-old.
But you’re trying to judge my answer LIKE AN ADULT.
So, here’s a more grown-up explanation of morality:
As long as the standard being used maintains the same units of measurement, we really can compare and contrast value statements we call ‘morality’. But having no units is equivalent to measuring nothing because the standard doesn’t mean anything. Morality is an empty conceptual construct until we supply (that means ‘subjective’) the units… Those that improve human well being are considered ‘right’ while those that reduce human well being are considered ‘wrong’. Those terms – right and wrong – require the same units. This is no different in principle than Himmler’s presentation of Nazi atrocities by order of the Dear Leader as therefore ‘good.’ Same reasoning.
Is that better?
mrsmc, plz, allow me to explain trinity as a preacher who’s been in the field since 1977. First of all, the term trinity doesn’t exist in the bible except in the mind of theologians who have misrepresented the things of God by their intellectuals. You cannot have 3 persons unless they are 3 distinct personalities, as you cannot have 2 people identical. trinity is just an altogether absurd concept which even breaks the 1st commandment, “Listen, oh, Israel, the Lord your God is ONE, and no other beside of Him”, and that true God who is ONE is called Jesus, which means the Lord Saves. If there is another 2nd, 3rd divine person or being beside Him, then that 2nd, 3rd bows before Jesus according to the script, “PHILIPPIANS 2:10
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;”. Trinity is heathenism, and idolatry, not a Christian concept. Jesus said, “MATTHEW 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”, ALL power, then where is your Father, where is your Holy Spirit? IN HIM, there no 2nd,or 3rd person wheresoever. “ISAIAH 44:8
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” See that? No 2nd, or 3rd to make trinity, but ONE, called the Father as an attribute, not a name or a person. No one bears any name called Father but a title, which means God Above Us in the Pillar of Fire as when He was leading Israel in form of a Fire, a Light. Holy Spirit is not a name but a title, an office of the same God, which means God In Us. Son is not a name but a title, an office of the same God, which means God Among Us. And all the 3 offices or manifestations pertain to One God, Jesus. Trinity as theologians explain is absurd, a monster-term, not even in the bible, except in the minds of theologians who failed to understand the deity of Jesus because of their intellectuals. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the attempt, Religious. But the challenge is to explain the concept simply enough for a 6-year-old to understand it. 🙂 I have to admit: I’m still confused!
It’s okay, though. Ark isn’t really asking… he might as well have shown up and demanded that I explain how to restore a classic car. It doesn’t take me a million words to say, “I don’t know very much about that.” And I don’t go to other people’s blogs and bring up classic cars, when I don’t know what I’m talking about.
That’s what our buddy Tildeb does.
He uses a lot of words to try and hide his own muddled thinking.
Well, as an atheist I have to explain my thoughts all the time to combat people like you who spread intentional misinformation about non belief, who unjustly maligns the character of non believers, who tries to make non belief into something it is not. Along the way, I try to explain why what you say, based on your religious convictions, is so odious and promotes harm. If I and other non believers don’t challenge your incorrect claims where you make them, you never will have cause and other readers may make the mistake of thinking you know what you’re talking about. The above section is about your incorrect claim that ‘science’ is this product or that rather than a method of inquiry. You have been corrected… but to no effect personally, of course. You don’t do that. So it’s your readers who need to see why your claims are very often factually incorrect. That’s why I bother.
“I have to explain my thoughts…”
You know, Einstein said if you can’t explain a concept to a 6-year-old, you don’t really understand it yourself. And the comment which was featured in this post is indecipherable. It sounds impressive to people who don’t know how to read well. They may be tempted to think that–since there are a lot of words, and since some of them are big–you know what you’re talking about.
So that’s why the challenge was made. The question wasn’t: “Why does Tildeb bother creating these word salads?” The question was, “Does this make sense to you, Christians? Does this person sound intelligent and convincing?”
If so, then they should adopt you as their Dear Leader.
But those of us who know how to read and think can figure out when you’re right and when JB is (or when you’re both wrong) without your silly trigger warning. Thanks. 🙂
I’m right with you, Dear Leader!
Gather up the mindless, troglodytes who have succumbed to my siren call. Whisk them away from this odious, harmful mindset and show them the truth!
Write, Dear Leader! Write! How can they know unless you preach?
You always have an open forum here to spew knowledge from your fountain of wisdom.
Hyperbole, thy name is JB!
Seriously, if you didn’t write crap, I wouldn’t respond. Live and let live and all that jazz.
But when you overstep, I comment. But I don;t comment like many others: I explain why your points I criticize ARE crap. That explanation is then wide open to counter points and argumentation… an opportunity you and Amanda regularly and studiously avoid. . And if by chance one of your readers provides me me with better reasons against my explanation than those I use for it, then I gladly change my opinion and will thank someone for bothering to make the effort. This is not something I avoid but welcome.
And yes, the criticism and explanation often takes many words. Read it or not. Use it or not. Think about it or not. None of that is under my control. I simply make the offering. But reading comprehension shouldn’t be such a burden and challenge for those who honestly and openly and really are concerned with finding out what is true, what is actually the case. That process often takes the format of a discussion, whereas you like claim and then try to divert responsibility for what you think, what you believe, what you write; instead, you are fast to use insults and belittlement to try to win yourself free of being responsible for your false claims. It’s a drool tactic that is very immature and counterproductive… again, counterproductive if what you’re posting has anything to do with finding out what is true.
That’s why I continue to say you don’t care about what’s true or you wouldn’t regularly behave this way. You only care about maintaining your beliefs as they are.
Your daughter follows your model and tactics to your approval. That’s very sad. The end result is that you and she remain happily fixed in your errors, inaccuracies, misrepresentations, and continue to a remarkable degree a level of ignorance presented with profound arrogance. You can’t learn that way, JB. That approach is not how to pursue finding out what’s true; that’s a dogmatic adherence to really bad ideas while thinking yourself clever for doing so and worthy of emulation.
That’s not a good legacy, JB. You can do better. You should do better. You still can do better. Your kids – and the kids of every reader of your blog – deserve better than this tripe you fob off as impervious ‘insight’ into this fast changing world. Each of us needs to exercise more disciplined thinking based on solid principles of fairness and respect and tolerance and learning rather than exercise bluster and low bar entertainment you produce for unbelievable claims masquerading as if knowledgeable. When they’re not knowledgeable but quite ignorant for sound reasons, you just don’t want to have to think in order to learn any differently, and so you hide behind believing yourself pious for being obtuse, for being intentionally dishonest, disreputable, and mean spirited. Even if you cannot do better, then hopefully a few of readers share my concern for respecting what is true over and above parroting and going along with your high regard for your own beliefs. If so, then my efforts are worthwhile. If not, then at least I tried.
Preach it!
You are worthy of every disciple you convert!
Come…level with me, Tildeb. I mean, seriously.
Do you think you needed all those words to say EXACTLY what you said with your first comment?
…or do you just start typing and hope you end up somewhere new?
JB and Sweet Cheeks –
Tildeb is not intentionally replying. Pay no attention.
formerly ~
I’ve given it some thought.
Kevin is from Alabama. Everybody from the ‘South’ is a hayseed. A halfwit if you will. But Kevin compounds his stupidity with theism. So halfwit is too generous. Kevin is probably a quarter-wit at best.
The Señor title had a formality to it that seemed unnecessary. Let’s dispense with formality in favor of a derogatory reference to Alabama football.
How do you feel about Kevin’s new nickname being:
“Crimson Quarter-wit”
Discuss.
I’ll take the liberty of shortening it to “QW.”
If the term is acceptable, it should be “CQW”. We need to check with Kevin and make sure he disapproves. The whole point is to come up with a name that will hurt his feelings. So if he approves of this name, we’ll need to think of another…
Hmmmm. Insulting in many ways – but primarily to my friends that are Bama grads (I’m an Auburn grad) – so I like it. How about “~CQW”? I’ll really miss the tilde. It’s my Zorro thing.
We can certainly include the “~” but you need to assure us that you find something about this moniker offensive. Otherwise, we’ll have to make up an entirely new one.
Very true, bro John, Independent thought alarms Christians, not a believer. They keep on violating their own book which advises them to be ready and willing to give an answer to hope God has put in them. They are so insecure that once one mentions something which “seems” like going contrary to what they have been taught, they whether just walk away, or HATES you. That’s the poor pic of Christians, but I thank the Lord I have grown out of that box to be a believer like Jesus was, not a Christian (what Jesus never was). There is a HUGE difference between a Christian (which means ONE LIKE CHRIST), and a believer. A Christian is just AN ACTOR, one who try to become like Christ, which NO ONE COULD NOT ATTAIN. Jesus was UNIQUE as much as I am, and every one is, and that’s what the Lord expect every one to be: himself/herself, NOT TO BECOME LIKE, but TO BE WHO YOU REALLY ARE. That’s why Christianity is just full of IMPERSONATORS, ACTORS, Pharisees (Pharisee means an actor, one who tries to play a role), and that’s the best churches produce, church goes, church members, because they just try to teach them TO BECOME Christ, instead of awakening people to what they are, sons and daughters of God. That is no different from a cult: a cult brings forth fanatics, and that’s what we see Christians reflect: no tolerance to whatever does not see like them, radical. No different from the attitude of terrorists.
Time has come to face the truth, and liberate yourselves from that cocoon.
I am a preacher myself, and I have awaken to my purpose in life, like Jesus was; He knew His purpose in life, that He was the Son of God, exactly like I have come to understand for myself. And that’s what every one has to come to: the perfect realization of your origin, your nature, your real identity, not to try a lifetime to study Jesus’ identity. No two people, even true twin, can be identical. Jesus was different, I am different, you are different, and we all stand as the great bouquet of the Lord, He is God of variety; we should stand one in our peculiarities, and stop devouring one another because the other one does not see things like me. Did not Paul taught it like that? When he said in Corinthians that the eye won’t say to the mouth “because you have not got the sense of sight, you are not part of the body”; how in the world such a body would ever eat then? That’s why the body of Christians is starving to death today, not fed properly, only junk. I am not saying it by myself, but Isaiah spoke it before me, said the body of Christians is the sickest body in the world and needs healing; full of rotten wounds never been treated, contusions, said their teachers are just give them their VOMITS, not the real bread from heaven; they tamper with the clean water of the Word of God with their feet, then give that muddy water to their people to drink. That’s why the body of Christians today is full of all kinds of germs: germ of hatred, envy, anger, intolerance, complexes of superiority (when their book says, never have a high opinion of yourself”, full of all types of germs.
But I thank the Lord because in the midst of all the death of confusion, He promised that He would raise up a new generation of shepherds anointed with the anointing of David, the true shepherd, not a mercenary: no bear, no lion could grab his sheep. Here we are, I am one of those shepherds of the prophecy. Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesied it, and here we are: the Lord our God is awakening today all His children to this new day, “rise and shine, your light has come, folks!” Thank you, my dear bro John for sharing.