The inaugural episode where we attempt (and fail) to explain the purpose of the podcast. There are some clicks, pops and other technical issues with the recording because the producer is an amateurish hack who lacks even basic recording skills. He will improve in future episodes…hopefully.
The Peaches and I discuss the usefulness of spirited debate in culture and religion. We also discuss whether or not Cami should have a snack.
94 Responses
Wow Ark, so basically we have to ask Ark-approved questions before you can answer them? Why can’t we play the game with these rules too? Maybe when you ask a question we approve of we’ll answer it too.
Yowza!
I think Kevin is rapidly taking my place as Ark’s favorite punching bag. 🙂
It’s those darn questions….
As long as I get to keep my money, I’m cool with it.
Wowzy Wowzerton!
On a different note – “Señor Dipshit and Amanda” sounds like a cool 1970’s detective show. I hope it involves a Gran Torino with a red bubble gum light.
Time to help the kids with homework and continue their indoctrination.
Well, now you are ten bucks out of pocket. You can do an EFT; I’m sure Kev would appreciate it.
Let Kevin decide if the question was answered.
Aw… n ow you’re just being a spoiled brat, John. Pay up you cheapskate.
Or deposit the money in a separate trust account to help fund therapy sessions for those damaged by religious indoctrination.
That at least would be a very worthy cause and I can give you the name of one person who would genuinely appreciate the financial aid.
Better than praying I’d say and money well spent..
I couldn’t resist. When Ark said “asking the same question a hundred times will not likely elicit a different answer” I had to refresh my memory regarding what answers he has already given, which he’s not likely to change…
So here we go.
Yesterday, Kevin asked the question, “From an evolutionary standpoint, aren’t murdered gays simply unfit for survival?”
And Ark “answered”—-Why would you consider any murder a result of someone proclaiming/deciding them unfit for survival?
Kevin submitted the question again: “I don’t [consider them unfit]. [But] from an EVOLUTIONARY standpoint, aren’t murdered gays unfit?
Ark answered: Why would you think that?
Kevin tried one last time: I don’t. It’s a simple question posed to you. From an evolutionary standpoint, aren’t murdered gays (or anyone–you fill in the blank) simply unfit for survival?
Ark Answered: What is this evolutionary standpoint you allude to, Kevin? I am unfamiliar with it…
LOL!
So, there you have it. You can ask a hundred times, and you won’t likely get a different answer.
Judges? Does Kevin get his $10?
If Kevin is happy with the answers, I’ll pay.
@ Amanda
I spent some time reading your conversation with Allallt which I came across. Most enlightening. I felt very happy for you in one major respect and quite sad for you in other respects.
In fact, I wish I had read this prior to becoming enmeshed in this circus.
But I am a slave to my own inner demons! 🙂
Needless to say, your extended dialogue with Allallt highlighted some key areas and confirmed what I suspected all along: namely you have become willfully indoctrinated, and remain willfully ignorant, you evade difficult, uncomfortable issues that get too close to the bone and you have no genuine response to the scientific method or the evidence it produces.
In fact, your skill at being (almost ) disingenuous is only matched by your father’s condescension and excruciating attempts to make threads of this kind funny. Maybe it is the type of thing he plies upon his Christian audiences?
But I’ll bow out at this juncture and leave you to your own devices.
FWIW.
My next door neighbors’ kid killed himself five weeks ago. I used to drive him to school. We are still coming to terms with it.
I sincerely hope you stay safe, and if it takes a belief in a god, then so be it. I mean that with all my heart.
Ark.
I’m terribly sorry your community is suffering such a loss.
I wish I could tell you it was rare and that it won’t happen in the Brave New World we’re heading toward. But I think it’s going to get much, much worse. 🙁
Keep seeking the Truth!
LMAOARKENATEN –
You haven’t even remotely answered the first question.
Here it is again …
From an evolutionary standpoint – aren’t murdered gays (or anyone – you fill in the blank) simply unfit for survival? If your answer is NO – then why not?
And your I don’t know / likely “answer” to the other question was incorrect (Bugs Bunny would say, “What a maroon!”). Per Collins, he was raised in an agnostic family (the neutral upbringing you crave). He then became atheist. He ultimately became a Christian.
You should debate Dr. Collins. I’m sure you’re up for it after debating a comedian, a stay at home mom, and their kind.
JB – I refuse to accept any payment for Ark’s silly non-answers.
I kinda thought you might feel that way. I’ll put my checkbook away for now.
Good grief, I have been watching this all DAY waiting for an answer. I am at the point I’ll pay for it myself! I hope you have snacks to keep you going while you wait, Kevin. Maybe even a 10 course meal.
Hey, Dipshit, I bowed out of this thread. But for you … well, as you are such a genuine, honest person.
You still have not framed your question in acceptable terms and are still acting like a disingenuous little tit.
When you have grown up a little and learned to ask questions like someone seeking a genuine answer, instead of hanging out a pathetic dog turd of a question then you will receive one.
Thanks for the info on Collins. He also headed up Biologos I believe. Not sure if he still does.
I do remember he was desperately trying to find a way to harmonize the uncomfortable reality of what his scientific endeavors have revealed. As if harmonizing Adam and Eve with the genetic reality was possible. Oh, well, full credit to the man and his team of theological experts (sic) for trying, right?
Meantime, why not take your brand of puerile smarmy rhetoric , roll it up in a a few pages of Genesis and shove it up your arse?
Yes, I know tired old ad hominums must mean I have lost the argument.
But it felt good all the same.
I was going to tell you to simply fuck off, but I thought the Genesis reference the better call.
Peace, love and all that other good shit.
Go well
And remember, Kev, you must love Jesus or he’ll send you to Hell to burn …. forever!!
Lots of hugs.
Ark.
This isn’t the scientific insight I so desperately crave, Wise Teacher.
As I mentioned to Senor Dipshit and Amanda I have decided to bow out of this thread.
You can raise a victory flag if it gives you a hard-on , John.
Based on what I read earlier you should really be focusing on more important issues.
Meantime, enjoy the boner.
All the best.
Ark
No victory flag unless you decide to ditch your worthless doctrine and move toward real Truth.
We’re not fighting you. We’re at war with bad ideas. We’re at war with lies. When the ship sinks, wisdom says look for something to keep you afloat.
Somebody said the Gospel is just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.
There’s plenty of bread on the table for you.
I am assuming you read my reply to your daughter and what I was referring to and why I decided to call it quits?
Learn to know when enough is enough, John.
Your ”brand”oof rhetoric has also past its Sell by Date.
Some things just aren’t funny.
Learn a little introspection, it might do you some good..
I’m probably the most introspective guy you’ve ever encountered.
The “hard questions” you alluded to are right next door to you. Life doesn’t happen in the comment section of a blog. Internet memes don’t help when a friend dies.
You can “bow out” anytime. Just stop commenting. Or, do a little introspection yourself and see if you can figure out if your doctrine is really helping you work through your grief.
It wouldn’t be neighborly for me to abandon you to the abyss just because you told me to shove off.
Work through my grief?
I think you sorely misunderstand my phrase ”coming to terms with”.
If you are serious about tackling the subject of abandoning and being the most introspective guy you know then maybe you ought to channel this introspection a little closer to your own home?
Then tell me what you would like to be enlightened about. Wise I may be, but clairvoyant I am not.
More scientific wisdom along these lines: “When society rids itself of religious indoctrination – and it will, Wally, you can take that to the bank – there will no longer be any barriers between people because of religion and the divisive cultural mores it instills that has, for far too long, been the bane of humanity.”
I’d love to know more of this utopia, Wise Teacher. Please, don’t indoctrinate me with more religious nonsense though. I want science, not superstition!
If you were the teacher and you had a student how would you explain the veracity of your religious belief in a manner that would justify acceptance of what you said based upon a statement such as this:
Christianity does not require unquestioning faith. In fact, the scripture demands we be able to give a reasonable explanation for our faith.
What reasonable explanation could you offer?
Wise Teacher, those are the questions I am looking to you to answer. If you cannot, I will remain in darkness.
I cannot provide a Christian answer which is why I asked if you were able to?
By doing so, and if it proved to pan out, it would thus render my position moot.
As your foundation is apparently greater than mine why shy away from providing answer?
Wise Teacher, I seek only a sip from your fountain of knowledge. I would not expect Christianity to be part of that knowledge as religion is dying to make way for true enlightening. Give me a peek at this coming utopia.
Look around you. Start with the numbers fleeing fundamentalism every year.
Runs into the tens of thousands if not more.
Yes, some of this shortfall is being replaced by those finishing seminary and religious based colleges.
Research the Clergy project.
Read a deconvert’s testimony.
These will give you a clear indication of how the individual sees their own deconversion and how they now feel about their lives as they move forward without the religious monkey on their back.
I’ll see your ten bucks and double it if you can find a deconvertee who has subsequently rejected their new found freedom and returned to fundamentalism based on a reasoned argument derived from evidence.
You’re a cruel teacher.
I don’t see any science anywhere in this comment, and your student is literally begging for it.
You’re selling yourself short Ark. You are obviously clairvoyant – able to predict the end of “religious indoctrination” within the next century or three. And probably wise enough to look up standpoint in a dictionary.
From an evolutionary standpoint – aren’t murdered gays (or anyone – you fill in the blank) simply unfit for survival? If your answer is NO – then why not?
Additionally – was/is Francis Collins a victim of religious indoctrination?
Same deal, Kevin.
If Ark answers your question, I send you 10 bucks.
Actually I am merely basing this belief on the stats garnered by the relevant experts in the field.
Also, one can turn to religion itself and see that it is stagnant and one by one its foundational tenets are being overturned by scientific evidence.
(Consider the archaeological evidence that refutes the biblical tale f the Exodus.)
One hardly need be an expert in such matters to see that ISIS for example is unsustainable and will, one way or another, run its course and eventually implode.
Asking the same question a hundred times regarding ‘gays’ will not likely elicit a different answer from me, especially as your motivation behind asking is likely disingenuous in the first place.
I do not know if Collins was/is a victim of religious indoctrination but it is likely he was influenced to a certain degree by his religious upbringing.
Because the peoples who worshiped these (and other) gods were often liquidated by the church that represents your own make-believe deity, Wally.
Oh, and atheists don’t generally ”attack” Jesus of
NazarethNowhere as he too was make-believe. It would be a bit like attacking Santa Claus.However, we do like to point out the fictitious nature of your god and the vile, nonsensical doctrine you lot indoctrinate into kids.
Based on the rapid rate that young people are now walking away from the garbage you tout it seems that a New Age of Enlightenment is on the cards, and I reckon PEW do a reasonable job of gathering such information.
The complete demise wont likely happen in our lifetime, Wally, but it is happening. When you consider how long the Catholic Church held sway, often over life or death. a few hundred years more are nothing.
The chances are excellent that your great great grand-kids will wonder what the hell (sic) you (and every fundamentalist) could truly have been be so willfully ignorant.
The really important part of challenging religious ideas in public is that those who prefer not to comment , but simply read, get to read other views and can then weigh up the evidence themselves.
This is all part of the process of critical thinking. A process that does not begin with a presuppositional view such as ”God is Real”, but rather begins with a neutral frame of mind and simply follows the evidence.
Thus we know there was no Adam and Eve, no global flood, and no Exodus – because we have verifiable scientific evidence that shows us.
This is also why nonsense such as Creationism and ID is not taught in public schools.
So when I challenge someone like you to present evidence for your belief in Satan or Hell or the Resurrection and all you offer is a hand wave comment there are some folk who will scratch their heads and wonder why you are behaving like a fundamentalist half-wit and simply don’t defend your worldview based on your apparent extensive understanding of the subject matter.
Especially as non believers are continually informed there is ample evidence to back each and every claim made by theists.
Quite a number of these silent readers have begun to approach these issues with a more open mind and some have begun or have been through the process of deconversion.
To date, I have not encountered a single individual who has regretted the decision, even those unfortunate enough to have needed some form of therapy because of the damage done by such virulent indoctrination over the years.
When society rids itself of religious indoctrination – and it will, Wally, you can take that to the bank – there will no longer be any barriers between people because of religion and the divisive cultural mores it instills that has, for far too long, been the bane of humanity.
Very scientific.
No wonder you cling to Atheism with all that hard hitting, objective research behind your belief.
Cling, John?
Surely you can do better than this? Remember, Jesus is watching you, John.
He expects his little sunbeams to defend the faith with all their might or shake the dust from their sandals and mount a talking donkey or some such doesn’t he. Oops… sorry, He.
Doesn’t one of the books in the NT actively encourage not to shy from the truth and ”make answer”, or something?
I’m sure someone like yourself knows this stuff off pat by now, yes?
More science! You’re a fountain of knowledge! Clinging clingers gonna cling!
Science , John?
How would you recognise it?
Is there mention in the Bible?
No questions, please!
More long, science filled comments please. Help me evolve, wise teacher!
I think that, based on current evidence, you might well be considered a Throwback.
Evolving has likely ceased.
But we can always make the attempt, if you are game?
Any particular scientific topic you feel particularly drawn to?
Wise teacher, you asked me two questions. I would not presume to tell you what knowledge would best lead me on the path to enlightenment.
You could try reading a book on evolution and then shave your head and have a go at walking across rice paper ?
For homework I would like to see a 500 (Max) word essay explaining how Yahweh refutes all evolutionary claims.
If you wish to use the bible as reference than citations must be noted.
Citing an arsehole like William Lane Craig and Divine Command Theory will incur an immediate ”F”.
Handy Hint. Including established scientific details of the HGP will garner bonus points and maybe even a Gold Star.
In your own time …
Wise teacher, you have offered little knowledge. I do not understand the sudden stinginess. Me heart is heavy. Is your fount of knowledge already dry?
Again, what exactly are you having difficulty with?
I(f you could give a little hint it might help me to help you.
I wouldn’t want to burden your already overloaded theistic mind set with too many facts all at one time.
Perhaps something simple?
Let me ask, how well do you know the bible?
Wise teacher, these are still questions. I seek only wisdom. This has been my prayer to God himself. “Make me wise.” I do not presume to tell you what I need to know.
And how has praying to your god worked out so far, John?
God sent me you, wise teacher.
You mean Yahweh, John?
Wow, Ark!
I’ve never heard you be so verbose around here!
It reminded me there was a story I wanted to tell you, but never took the time to write it out.
Once upon a time, there was a science teacher with a flair for photography. We’ll call him Bob. People thought Bob was a bit odd, but he still had a pretty stable life with his wife and kids.
Of course, he had never been super religious (unless you count religiously working on his own IQ) but there was a brief period he decided to get more involved with the local church so he could make a positive difference in the world. After all, that’s what humans are SUPPOSED to do, when they want to help others, right?
But there was a problem. It turned out, this church had some skeletons in the closet, and–long story short–they ended up blaming BOB for blowing the whistle, instead of taking responsibility for the wrongdoing.
This, understandably, turned Bob against religion forever… or…. well…. sort of.
Years later, our hero Bob never darkened the doors of a church building. But he still hadn’t forgotten the injustice. And, as Bob’s quirks turned into a full blown mental illness–his various manias and hallucinations started to take on an interesting theme: Bob began insisting that HE was right and that HE was good… and people would be better off opening a church centered around him.
I am sure there is point to this but I’ll be damned if I can figure it out.
Just a story. 🙂
Probably the way you told it, then, I expect?
I think we’ll podcast about Bob sometimes. So, stay tuned!
Oooh… goody! Will Cameron feature as well?
Cameran*
But she’s Cami-Jo unless she’s in trouble.
Well the Podcast wasn’t very clear.
Meanwhile, I’m learning all sorts of great teaching tricks from you!
Apparently I never have to offer anything akin to a lecture… I just get to assign “homework” and tell my students which sources they’re not allowed to consult. Sounds easier than I always thought!
Also, ridicule students who ask the wrong kinds of questions. Got it. 🙂
There are no wrong questions.
Ask away.
I was hoping the Wise Teacher would come forth with another verbose lecture like the one shared with Wally this morning. Alas, he has opted to ask questions of his humble pupil instead. Has he not discerned from my writing that I am a fool? Does he not perceive that my muddled mind is lost in darkness with no hope apart from the light of his wisdom?
Why dost thou hideth thy face, Ark?
@Wally.
Who’s living rent free now, Wally? *Smile*
I don’t think you have ever gotten over finding out that dinosaurs never actually coexisted with humans or discovering Moses was not a real person.
Did Ken Ham ever send you a refund, by the way?
I loved this. Great getting to hear the voices behind this blog and comments. Also, I’ve found another honesty buddy who would rather just hear it like it is, even if it hurts. Looking forward to hearing more of these! Great conversation.
About half way through. Liking it. Although I also like my memes LOL. I post one each day. Usually not trying to present any deep theology, but to have a laugh at 3 each day.
So, what qualifies as a Troll exactly? Depending on how we define it…I may have as many as you LOL. In fact, your two current visitors trolled me forever, but I think they got tired of me. Now John Zande just pops in to correct me when I mispell a word, and Ark just leaves me be.
They’re still hanging around, Wally. They got nowhere to be. There’s nothing happening on their own blogs so they drop in to ours in order to have topics of conversation.
I know, Ive been watching the whole thing. They will stay as long as you entertain them. KIA still lets me live rent free in his head LOL. Good old Mike. We go back almost my entire blogging career, although Ark was my first real troll. He just waits for new bloggers to show up and pounce.
They can’t help themselves. Christ is the most interesting, important figure in human history. They don’t spend all that effort attacking Zeus or Mithra.
Yeah John..I have asked some of them why they don’t attack Zeus, and the quality of answer I get is about what you all have gotten asking those two for their source of morality.
How often will you do the podcast?
Weekly. If it goes according to plan.
Would you like me to come back for a visit? All you have to do is ask, Wally.
What would be the point, Ark? You have the same conversation no matter where you are, and no matter what the topic. In my mind I can just take out John’s name and put in mine and pretend we are at my place.
Although I must admit these two are doing a rather classic job of making you look like a fool. My mistake was thinking a real conversation with you was possible.
Really? And what do you consider they have written that makes either John or Mike or myself look foolish?
I am surprised you would even be able to recognise it. Or will you reply with a usual Wally Hand Wave and think this would be erudite enough to pass muster?
A real conversation is possible Wally.
All you have to do is embrace a vocabulary that includes words like , evidence , evolution archaeology and Historical Fiction.
How about a chat about the Exodus?
Or is this a topic you avoid like one of Pharaoh’s Plagues?
How about you answer the question that has been repeatedly asked of you? See? That’s why I quite wasting my time with you. No matter what a commenter asks you, you respond with
“Which god?”
“What about the exodus?”
I thought the question on the table is how you arrived at the conclusion that certain things are actually wrong.
Sure. No problems at all, Wally.
Let’s have go at it” shall we?
You start.
In your own words , ask a specific question being as concise as you are able.
And I forgot to add the the list of your standard auto paste comments that one
“What was the question anyway?”
I don’t play along with your stupid game at my place, and don’t have much patience for it hear. Perhaps if you actually read either the post or comments you offer so many opinions about, you would see the questions that have been asked of you.
Of, course we all know you clearly understand the question, but that you have no answer.
Head back over to the other post and get caught up. There was a question there, but you and pals just ran in circles avoiding it.
Of course I have answered Amanda’s question and John’s and understand it perfectly, notwithstanding their rather sneaky intent. Naughty Christians! 😉
All I want , Wally is for you to demonstrate you have what it takes in the Noodle Department to ask the question yourself, in you’re own words.
That way it will show you are not riding on the others’coat-tails.
Come on, don’t be scared. It will be fun, and I’m pretty sure John and Mrs. Mc will have your back? Am I right, you two?
Ark, I know how to ask the question. Have asked it of you in the past. Oddly, you responded the same way then.
My noodle is fine. I don’t use nearly as many words as you intellectual sorts, or nearly as many syllables, but my noodle is fine, thanks very much.
So the question you would like me to answer? Any time you’re ready , Wally.
Any time you are ready, ARk.
We eagerly await your answer.
You have to ask a question first, Wally.
Sigh
Struggling to find the right words?
Isn’t one of them ‘god’?
I’d recommend just sitting at Ark’s feet and basking in his infinite knowledge. Theists are too stupid to answer his questions. Get out of the way so he can teach! If you won’t do it for yourself, do it for Carmen.
I see I have missed a lot this morning. I need to catch up!
He will immediately talk about the scripture being pure fiction and the lack of historical evidence for Jesus. Doesn’t matter how you respond. Doesn’t matter that legions of scholars, including atheists, accept that Jesus is historical.
Ark is not worthy of real responses. He is most useful when you let him to the talking so that others can see the fullness of his futility.
You are a duck’s back. Ark is water.
Ha..well said. That is actually a favorite expression of mine when things get on my nerves:
“Be the duck, be the duck”
Fun fact: The average duck is a better philosopher than a college level atheist.
Ha…fact huh?
Oh…now he’ll start goading you. Trying to “see if you’re smart enough” to ask questions.
Wow..you nailed it.
You should get our atheist friends to co-star sometimes. That would really get the party pumping.
We’ve already seen everything they have to offer.
Good point.
I thought Cameron’s(? Hope I got the kid’s name right) contribution was probably the most cogent.