Is there anybody, anywhere, doing anything they should quit?
If you’re of the opinion that there is behavior that should be stopped…
…then you believe sin exists.
I know, you don’t like the word, “sin”.
You prefer something a little softer.
Something less religious.
Like, “Mistakes”.
But that word doesn’t really mean the same thing.
Mistakes are unintentional.
All sin is a “mistake”.
Not all “mistakes” are sin.
When you unknowingly take too much change from the cashier, it’s not a sin.
When you realize you were given too much change and you say nothing, it’s not a ‘mistake’.
You can’t accidentally burglarize a house.
You can’t mistakenly have an affair.
“Whoops! You’re not my spouse! Hand me my pants…”
We can disagree about specific sin.
There is no disagreement that sin exists.
Everyone believes in sin.
There’s no mistaking this truth.
It’s inescapable.
“Keep your religion to yourself, Branyan!”
“I don’t believe in that all that sin crap.”
So…
Is it wrong to shove my beliefs down your throat?
I’m doing it intentionally, you know.
It’s not a mistake.
And you don’t believe in sin.
You’ve got a problem.
You’re all upset for no reason.
No. Reason.
That means, you’re irrational.
Have a nice day.
460 Responses
Well, I for one am stealing, raping and murdering as much as I want to.
*facepalm*
You know you will be JUDGED for stealing, Ark. I will judge you. Your friends/family will judge you. That was Rainy Day’s point.
If there was no judgement, you would do whatever you want.
I fully agree. And this is why I am currently raping and stealing and murdering as much as I want.
Because you want to go to jail?
I’m confused.
Yes, I agree, you are most definitely confused.
Let me reiterate.
Oh, and my comment was in reply to Rainy, not Gene.
Please clarify: You are saying that without judgement we would all go around robbing raping and stealing, etc, am I correct?
I already fixed the Gene/Rainy Day mix up.
To clarify: RAINY DAY said that, without judgement, humans would go around doing whatever they felt like doing. (The example used was robbing banks.) So–telling kids they will be judged and punished by God is no more cruel than telling them “You’ll be judged and punished by other humans!”
That was the point.
Really?
So without judgment you would be a bank robber or something similar is this what you are saying?
That it is only ”judgment” (from others) that prevents you from … say…. bashing you kids over the head with a hammer,yes?
No–I don’t want to bash my kids with a hammer.
But if I WANTED to bash my kids with a hammer, and if I wasn’t afraid of judgement, I would do it.
Are you going to “reiterate” your statement about “fully agreeing–and that’s why I’m currently raping and stealing,” or are you going to just keep asking ME more questions?
Did ”judgment” prevent David Wood from trying to stove in his father’s head with a hammer?
I can’t believe you’re this stupid.
You’re literally making my point for me.
No–David Wood wasn’t afraid of judgement. He actually EXPLAINS THAT in the video. David Wood wanted to prove that society couldn’t tell him what to do and that none of it really matters. Being “good” and being “bad” were meaningless, so he did what he wanted to do. And, even after he was caught and jailed, he was making elaborate plans to get out and hurt people again. Because that’s what he felt like doing.
Prediction:
“And yet you idolize David Wood as a hero. You are very sick. Seek professional help.”
Something along those lines…
No question. I’m ready for it.
So therefore, judgement does not prevent people doing what they want, does it?
Which is why I am currently robbing and raping as much as want.
I can’t beleive you are this stupid.
You keep making the point and don’t even realise you are making it.
.
“In the end, MOST WON’T, due to fear of incarceration…” that’s what Rainy said. FEAR of judgement is a good thing. FEAR of judgement would have kept David Wood from assaulting his dad…
You poor, poor thing.
So without FEAR of judgment, your dad, for example could well be over at your place raping you because he knew he could get away with it, yes?
Yes!
You’re exactly right!
If he WANTED to rape me or anyone else (if he had the urge/instinct/inclination) and if he HAD NO FEAR of judgement, then yes!
Likewise, the ONLY reason you’re not robbing banks is because you either don’t think you need the money, or you’re afraid of being judged a “criminal.” (And, most people who DO rob banks are pretty sure they won’t get caught/judged.)
So, my own personal ethics and morality has absolutely nothing to do with it, only the FEAR of judgment, is this what you are saying?
“Your own personal morality ethics” is based on a combination of what you FEEL like doing–curbed by fear of judgement.
You want you Atheist buddies to JUDGE you as a “good guy.” So, that influences your decisions.
So if there was no one there to judge, what would hold me back from raping and pillaging?
If there were no humans to judge you, then there would be none to rape and pillage from, either.
But you’re afraid of being called a “bad guy.” You’re afraid of being JUDGED crazy or criminal, by other humans.
That is what keeps you from taking money or sex whenever you want it.
Here’s a quote straight from Ted Bundy’s mouth. Listen to what he’s saying! It’s very cold, calculated, and totally logical:
Actually my sense of right and wrong is what prevents me, not any fear of judgment.
And this is why I opened this part of the thread by stating that I am raping and robbing exactly as I want.
“Right” and “wrong” don’t exist. That’s what Atheists are SUPPOSED to believe.
“Right” and “wrong” literally just mean “what most of society wants you to do or not do.”
I think you will find reciprocity is in there somewhere. Whatever you think it is we can put it all down to evolution.
NO gods required, thank you very much.
And this is why I am raping and pillaging as much as I want.
I already said, if you WANT to do something, then it’s only fear of judgement that keeps you from doing it…
Thankfully, you don’t WANT to rape/pillage. And, thankfully, you care very deeply what other people think of you.
”…you care very deeply what other people think of you.”
Not really.
For example, I don’t give a monkey’s uncle what you think of me, truly I don’t.
Also I don’t do things on a reward/punishment basis, either.
Although this seems to be built into much of religious mentality.
In fact, pretty much the entirety of your religion is built upon satisfying the demands of a make-beleive deity in an attempt to secure a place in the afterlife.
You care about being judged by these people:
All of them admit there’s no objective morality. All of them say right/wrong are just opinion. But, you still want them to think you’re a “good guy,” and so you don’t take things that aren’t yours, even if you really want to.
Why would I care what they think of me?
But this is the thing, you see … I don’t want to take things that aren’t mine .
Yet, it seems you do want to steal and only your perception of being judged (real or imagined) is preventing you from marching into a store and taking a dress.
Yes–you DO care about being called “immoral” or “crazy” by those people… (The only reason you don’t WANT to have sex with beautiful strangers or take money that isn’t yours is because you’ve been brainwashed.) You are afraid of judgement, and you’re lucky they’ve taken all your free-thinking power away from you. Because, if you WANTED to steal things, they would call you “deviant” or “insane” or “criminal.”
And society is very lucky that this works on you, and it works on MOST people, just like Rainy Day said.
But I am not immoral or crazy although there may be people that might think I am, but I don’t care what they think … truly.
You, on the other hand, do, and this is obvious. Probably because you are trying very hard to hide that you are struggling with mental health issues, like daddy and grandpa.
Ah … so you are saying I don’t rush out and have sex with strangers because someone might judge me?
Hmmm …..let me ponder that for a moment.
Well, as it happens I am quite happy with my current situation regarding my sex life and my finances thanks all the same.
You keeping thinking that I might want to steal things.
But I don’t. Truly. So there is no WANTED to.
For a similar reason I don’t drive fast, even when I know I can get away with it. The risk of possibly hitting a stray dog or cat or a child or even having an accident is simply not worth it.
On the odd occasion I have been undercharged at the supermarket I have either pointed this out to the cashier or phoned the store after I have arrived home.
It just isn’t in my make up to want to do ”bad” things and if I did WANT to then I wouldn’t really give a shit about others thoughts and nor would I likely fear judgment. Even the threat of punishment (jail etc) probably wouldn’t hold that much sway.
Yes, we have all been conditioned by culture, but if you removed all the restraints and the punishments it would make no difference to me.
I wouldn’t steal or rape or knowingly do things I would otherwise be punished for.
The real question is …. why would you ?
(That’s five!)
VERY GOOD!!!! You admitted you have been brainwashed by society.
And Ted Bundy and David Wood simply shook off that brainwashing and decided to do whatever they felt like doing. They didn’t care about judgement.
Rainy’s point was: if it’s okay to condition people to be afraid of society’s judgement, then it’s okay to condition them to be afraid of God’s judgement. Brainwashing to make people behave isn’t “good” when you do it, and then “bad” when Christians do it.
It’s all the same.
No, not brainwashed. This suggests a mindless adherence to dogma – like you and your religion, for example.
You are most definitely indoctrinated and your critical thinking skills have been curtailed.
No, it isn’t okay to brainwash people to fear the judgment of a make-believe deity, and this is why, when it is done to children it is simply child abuse.
And religious morality is not fixed in this regard either, which is why religions don’t burn witches or stone adulterers, or …. I was gong to say execute homosexuals but of course certain Islamic radicals do, don’t they?
Much of what the Christian church now considers abhorrent they once sanctioned …. slavery, racism etc.We even have female pastors in certain churches, yes?
So you see, to use religion as the yardstick for morality etc is ridiculous as the basis for your morality is shifting all the time.
If you had been born 300 years ago you probably would have thought slavery was just fine and black people were most definitely inferior to the white race, and that, as a woman you were second in command to a man …. because Christianity and your church decreed it so.
And this suggests that further down the road the church and its stance on morality etc will change and keep changing.
Condition and brainwash is the same thing.
I’m sorry you don’t like the fact that you admitted to.
You’ve been conditioned by society.
No, not really, Amanda.
Perhaps the word train would be more appropriate.
Brainwashing – which is what you have been subject to – suggests an almost unquestioning, slavish adherence to authority.And if you do question you are generally shunned or deemed to be the one who is wrong. Your god is perfect right, so if he wanted to commit genocide then he must have had a bloody good reason, yes?
Your ingrained fear of your god is a perfect example.
You won’t go to heaven if you disobey your god or become an apostate.
That is what brainwashing is and this is what you have been subject to.
Use whatever word you want. You’ve been “trained” or “conditioned” (or “brainwashed”) in to accepting what society wants you to do…
Right/Wrong are just arbitrary lines, remember? They are just quick ways of saying “what society likes or doesn’t like.”
When you say “I’m moral” or “I’m not crazy,” all you’re really saying is, “I do what other humans expect me to do most of the time.”
Great! Congratulations. 🙂
But, so what?
Personally, I have greater respect for people who don’t willingly submit to their “training”.
I just explained the difference between training and brainwashed.
I was trained to play classical guitar.
You were brainwashed to beleive in a make beleive deity.
That you have been brainwashed …or indoctrinated, is evident by your responses, which show definite signs of willful ignorance and a lack of critical thought.
And here once again you demonstrate that it is your indoctrination that prevents you from hauling of and giving in to the urges that, by and large, your indoctrinated god-belief are currently preventing.
Atheist Philosopher Richard Taylor: “to say that something is wrong… even though no God exists to forbid it, is not understandable… The concept of moral obligation [is] unintelligible apart from the idea of God. The words remain but their meaning is gone…”
So–why control yourself? Why avoid doing so-called “bad” things? Only two reasons: you don’t personally feel like doing those bad things anyway, or you’re been trained to be afraid of society’s consequences. (As Rainy Day says, it’s not a bad thing to be afraid of consequences. Secular societies use jails for punishment all the time.)
”you don’t personally feel like doing those bad things anyway, ”
Yep… that’s me.
But in your case, where you have been indoctrinated into god belief, only this seems to be holding you back, am I right?
If it wasn’t for your god, and the morality you beleive he has instilled you would not be able to control yourself and you’d be off causing mayhem or something, right, because who would give a shit? Not you, right?
No. You’re not right. I already said I don’t feel like beating my kids with a hammer anyway. But–you and I don’t get points for being “moral” just because we don’t happen to feel like doing those “bad” things. That doesn’t make us BETTER than someone who DOES feel like beating people with hammers.
That’s the difference between you and me: consistency. I don’t believe we should train/condition/indoctrinate the Ted Bundies and David Woods of the world, just because they happen to feel differently. If it’s wrong for God to judge me and my children, then it’s wrong for us to judge OTHER people, too.
Isn’t it?
So if you don’t feel like beating your kids with a hammer … and kudos .. then what has your god got to do with anything?
In fact , it has absolutely nothing to do with anything, does it?
Without God, morality is arbitrary. There is no objective Standard without God. So–when YOU try to judge/punish the Ted Bundies and David Woods of the world, you are being inconsistent. You are forcing your morality onto them.
Here’s Atheist Philosopher Richard Taylor again: “to say that something is wrong… even though no God exists to forbid it, is not understandable… The concept of moral obligation [is] unintelligible apart from the idea of God. The words remain but their meaning is gone…”
No.Evolution is where morality derived. I have explained this to you enough times already. Now you are, once again, showing willful ignorance, and this is because you have been indoctrinated.
“Evolution did it” isn’t any more rational than “God did it.”
That’s why I’ve been able to quote Atheist after Atheist after Atheist who admits that it’s not objective. Morality is just a majority opinion.
Except there is evidence of evolution but nothing for your god or anyone else’s.
And this is why you need to remain indoctrinated.
(*rolls eyes*)
Whatever you say, buddy.
It’s Friday, which means it’s a school day. I’m going to go start my daughter’s lessons now… She’s already smarter than the average Atheist. But, with any luck (and a little “indoctrination”) she will not abandon all rationality, like Uncle Ark, in the next few years.
I absolutely love reading comments from people who deny evolution.
They are some of the most utterly stupid people on the planet.
I have no doubt your daughter is smarter than you, although to be fair to her, so are most people; not your father, of course.
I predict by the time she is old to question her indoctrinater, she will tell you to go an get stuffed.
I love reading comments from people who deny evolution, too.
But I love it even more when I get to read comments from people who only THINK another person is “denying evolution” simply because that person doesn’t say, “Evolution is the Answer for Everything.”
You’re exactly like the Fundamentalist Baptist preachers who say, “All I need to know is that God did it!” (Except, you replace “God” with “Evolution,” exactly as I said.)
And evolution did do it …
Okay, Pastor.
At long long last I think we may be onto to something, and a genuine breakthrough is on the horizon.
So why don’t we seriously examine your statement in detail.
First, please explain exactly how
WITH your god morality is NOT arbitrary.
No. I can’t do the thinking for you.
I have quoted Atheist thinkers whose books you can read. And I can quote Christians (who you will simply shrug off). But, if you don’t understand that God–by definition–is “The Standard,” then I can’t help you. God is the Ultimate Goal. He’s the Way and the Truth and the Life.
I know that in your tiny, black-and-white brain, you’re still trying to think of God like a bearded man in the sky, but that’s not what “God” means. He is the Beginning and the End. He’s the Supreme. He’s where the buck stops. (That’s the definition of Creator/God whether you ask a Muslim or a Jew or a Christian or any other Theist. They all mean the same thing when they say God.) He is the source of EVERYTHING, including morality…including our consciences, which make us pursue morality…including evolution, which small-minded people treat like a god…
There is no “how” to explain. The DEFINITION of God is “Supremacy” which results in Objectivity. Even the ATHEISTS understand this, philosophically. That’s why, I’ve quoted Richard Taylor twice. And here is Nietzsche: “When one gives up Christian belief one thereby deprives oneself of the right to Christian morality. For the latter is not self-evident…”
There’s also Michael Ruse and John Steinrucken and Alex Rosenburg on the Atheist side, plus C.S. Lewis (mainly) on the Christian side. If you were REALLY interested in the topic of Objective vs. Subjective morality, you would read the philosophers on the subject. But you’re not interested in anything except keeping yourself distracted until you die.
I am not Christian and neither are several billion others.
So now that you have delivered the lovely sermon, explain why WITH your god morality is NOT arbitrary.
And also, explain how you arrive at the conclusion that your god is the source of morality.
I mean, you must have evidence surely?
No. It would be wrong for me to continue wasting my time repeating myself to someone who has shut down his own brain.
At least have allowed myself that option.
You are indoctrinated and do not have such a luxury.
Okay, Preacher.
Indeed.
Okay, Preacher.
Let’s see bow honest you are …
What basis do you have for determining your god is good?
*See comment about repeating myself*
You haven’t yet explained on what basis you have for determining your god is good.
Okay, buddy. If you say so.
So we have established that you NO basis on what to consider your god good.
So how do you consider there is an objective standard if you have em>no basis on which to consider your god is good.
Look at me, everyone. I’m now repeating myself about not repeating myself!
Weeeeeee! Another spin on Ark’s Merry-God-Round. (We’re on step #5)
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/10/27/bad-people-can-do-good/comment-page-1/#comment-7722
Do you notice how you never answer the questions that make you feel extremely uncomfortable and that require you to examine your stance on your god given morality?
If you cannot identify the basis on which you consider your god to be good then you cannot make any pronouncements on christian morality.
So, we’ve established that you “don’t do” philosophy–exactly as you confessed months ago.
And we’ve established that your game is to ask the same few questions, in different ways, over and over and over, not because you’re actually interested in thinking through these issues, but because you’re waiting for the other person to get tired. Then, once they reach their limit and cut you off, you pat yourself on the back (exactly as I told Rainy Day).
Good. I’m glad we’ve established all of this.
Actually, it is simply to demonstrate that:
a) You have no idea of what you are really talking about and are simply espousing ”pulpit christianity” and are clearly indoctrinated.
b) You do not know your bible.
c) You are a hypocrite and are morally bankrupt.
I swabbed God’s cheek and looked under a microscope. Lo and behold! It was FULL of “good” cells!!! (“Good” cells are made of “good” molecules, which are made of “good” atoms.)
Case closed.
As I stated, you always resort to the asinine when you know you have been caught with your pants down.
You have no idea what you are really talking about, are a hypocrite and morally bankrupt.
Seriously, you really need to study your bible.
That’s science! You science-denier.
Science?
We are talking about your complete lack of basis for stating your god is good.
That you are morally bankrupt for accepting this god as your standard of morality.
And that you have been indoctrinated to accept this.
-Gives Ark Philosophical answer
-Ark doesn’t understand
-Gives Ark quotes from Atheists who say that God can be a moral standard, but Evolution can’t
-Ark still asks for clarification
-Gives Ark the explanation that, if we believe goodness is objective, then it is, by definition, God
-Ark’s brain explodes
-Gives Ark a sarcastic, “scientific” answer about God being made of “good” molecules
-Ark falls apart and declares that I’M the one who doesn’t understand what’s going on…
Lol. My pants are on just fine, ol’ buddy. It is YOU who is lucky no one reads this far into the comment section. (This is why I prefer making you comment on the most recent post, so that others can see your bare tush. 😉 Pull up your pants before next time.)
Here’s a very simple method to determine not only your god’s morality but yours’ as well.
Mosaic Law states that:
If a man rapes a woman he must marry his victim.
Do you think this is moral,
yes or no?
The Bible isn’t God, Ark.
And you told me the Bible is untrustworthy.
Therefore, why in God’s name are you talking about the Bible? It has NOTHING to do with this conversation. We’re talking about GOD–not a verse in the Jewish Torah.
Okay . That’s fair.
So let’s establish ground rules so that I do not move the goal posts and compromise your position.
Are you a deist or a Christian?
No–I’ve already established the ground rules.
They are: I say whatever I feel like saying to you, whenever I feel like saying it, because you will respond the exact same way (no matter what). Currently, I’m playing a game where I try to push this comment section over 500… and I’m predicting your next responses before you make them. 🙂
Those are the rules.
Fair enough.
We are talking about your god.
Not the god of the bible, then?
Oh, but just out of curiosity, do you think there is any moral context, even taking into consideration bronze age culture, that the victim be forced to spend the rest of her life with the man who raped her?
This is what I predicted you’d say:
Boo. I was wrong. :/ I guess I didn’t take into consideration the fact that you’ve read something about Old Testament rape laws recently, and so now you’ll probably obsess over that for awhile…
Oh, I knew these all the while. Moses was a real champ!
I was simply curious to see how far you would push this Objective Standard morality thing with you still knowing full well your god is a monster.
Cognitive dissonance? Compartmentalism?
Divine Command Theory?
So, I notice you didn’t answer.
What do you think about the rape law? Moral, yes or no?
I’m writing this response to you, without even reading yours back to me! This is fun… I can see why you do it.
I’ll just go ahead and hit “reply” as soon as you comment again. At this rate, we’ll get to 500 in no time!
Mentally ill!
Bronze Age god!
Something, something, something, I don’t do philosophy…
Rape is bad! (Except that bad doesn’t really exist.)
Blah, blah, blah…
You know, you’re really taking a long time to respond. Hurry up, so I can publish all of these very important words I’ve written for your consideration!
Insomnia. Soccer. Pictures. Meaningful life. No God required! (Except, there is a God, who allows you to experience the otherwise-arbitrary thing you call “happiness.”)
A-ha! There’s your response! Now here’s mine.
how honest
I never said it did make us better. It most definitely does demonstrate mental illness, as when you considered suicide.
Gods should have absolutely nothing to do with this either …
Nope–mental illness is another meaningless word.
It’s just a quick way of saying, “Not the way most people think.” So what?
YOU are the one trying to force people to think/behave LIKE YOU. And YOU are the one trying to categorize people as crazy/immoral on one hand, or normal/good on the other hand, based on nothing. No Standard. In a godless world, normal/good/right are meaningless. THE ATHEISTS AGREE. “Mental illness” is just a word we use to describe the way some people evolved. What gives us the right to lock them up, other than majority rules?
I am not trying to force you to think like me at all.
I don’t care how YOU think as long as you keep this nonsense away from kids and you do not, in any way, beleive you have any sort of privilege.
That’s the definition of “caring,” you nincompoop. I don’t care, unless you do THIS, means you care.
And you have no reason to care: because, if morals are relative, none of this matters.
http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/moral-truth.htm
No, it is not, anymore than I care if you wet yourself when you listen to the Back Street Boys. As long as you do not force me to listen to them I’m fine. Each to his or her own.
You have the right to beleive what you want as long as you do not infect others, especially children and demand special privilege.
So you DO care. Thanks for agreeing.
You really are a child … a sick, demented, indoctrinated child … with some pretty serious mental health issues.
I am surprised you don’t end your comments with ”Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!”
Okay.
Indeed.
Okay.
…and now YOU’RE RIGHT BACK WHERE YOU STARTED!!!
He is irrational.
Depraved.
A raving lunatic incapable of following a line of thought.
Wouldn’t you rather just watch a movie with Collin?
Yes… But, I’m afraid of being judged as a “Quitter.”
By who?!!!!
The irrational side of my brain. 🙂
He’s preaching faith!
Faith!
It’s making my de-converted ears bleed!
To your previous question:
No.
He is utterly lost.
He is too stupid to talk to you.
Poor thing.
He just claimed moral superiority.
He’s more ethical than me.
The pride of the faithless knows no limits.
He has more pride in his big toe than all Christians combined. 😉
And my de-conversion has removed my fear of sin.
So I’m not worried about Jesus being unhappy with me raping and pillaging.
My eyes are opened to the truth!
Aren’t you the lucky one. Off you go, then.You can now go rape and pillage to your heart’s content. After all, it is the type of thing de-converts( non-believers) are doing all the time, right?
You should fit right in …
You and me, Ark. Two peas in a pod!
Oh, that is a bit rough, Bunyan.
I would rather align myself with a bag of last weeks’ dog droppings than be likened to anything to do with you.
Really, Bungyan, that is such a cruel, spiteful thing for you to say.
Cruel is a meaningless term.
You and I are soulless sacks of chemicals. The product of mindless evolution. You are in no way superior to me. You’re, again, speaking irrationally.
I am certainly more ethical…have a higher sense of morality, and much more importantly, funnier.
All of those claims are illogical.
Ethics and morality are social constructs. They cannot be proven scientifically.
Funny is totally subjective.
Your faith claims are nonsensical.
”Funny is totally subjective”.
Agreed .. but you are still not funny.
It’s all subjective.
And your continued arguments to the contrary are irrational.
There would be no such thing as ‘rape’, ‘murder’ or ‘robbery’ except that there is judgment that those things should not be done. The judgement gives definition to the crimes. Am I right?
I literally don’t know what his confusion is now…
He hears “judgement” and assumes we’re talking about the cosmic kind. I’ve tried twice (and Rainy tried once) to explain that laws and jail/incarceration are types of judgement as well…
But I think it’s still confounding him.
He’s wanting you to admit that without the Bible, you would bash people with a hammer.
Without GOD I would have no reason to control myself…unless I was afraid of being mocked and called “disturbed” by society… and I’m not… so, he’s lucky I believe in an objective right/wrong.
Also, the rest of us are lucky that God-deniers simply don’t have the urge to beat people with hammers (yet).
I indoctrinated you with religion so you wouldn’t hit me with a hammer.
Do you think Arky is REALLY not getting this???
He never thinks about the responses. The goal is just to keep talking. Keep disagreeing. Even when the argument is circular and he’s disagreeing with himself.
He doesn’t always disagree. Every time I respond with a simple “okay” he responds with “indeed.”
But–yes–keep talking. And ALWAYS have the last word. I bet I can find that symptom in the DSM. 😉
He’s hung up that judgment doesn’t ‘prevent’ people from misbehaving. That’s why he’s ‘raping as much as he wants’ which of course, he isn’t, because he’s afraid of judgment but then DAVID WOOD so there.
That’s not what Rainy said. He doesn’t say judgement prevents everyone from doing bad things. He said being AFRAID of judgement will keep MOST people from doing bad things.
But, of course, you know that.
As always, it does no good to explain it to Ark.
All I know is DAVID WOOD hit his dad with a hammer. And evolution.
Therefore, there is no God.
David Wood lives inside Ark’s head, and there’s a good reason for that.
Wood is the only consistent Atheist I’ve ever heard of. He didn’t just pay lip service to the idea that morality is arbitrary. Wood actually LIVED that belief!
I just told Ark I’m not worried about Jesus being unhappy with me. I’m a de-convert now. Do you suppose I should worry about what Ark thinks?
I wouldn’t care what ANYONE thinks…
Just do whatever feels good… and try not to get caught. 😉
As a de-convert, I’m having trouble understanding why I should spend any time online trying to convince other people that I’m right. I really don’t care what other people think or do as long as they don’t bother me.
*shrugs*
You’ll have to ask Ark, so that he can tell you to ask Nate.
I don’t see the benefit of being a nice bloke either…
So, every baby is a god believer is it?
Hmm … now THAT take I would be very interested in reading evidence of .
Oh .. and be careful, Mandy , Daddy Dearest is a non-believer now … he has rejected faith. And one cannot be a god believer and certainly not a christian without faith with a capital F. He might well turn round and confirm that your life really is meaningless …. you know, like all us atheist beleive, right?
You said so yourself: kids assign agency.
You haven’t explained what they’re taught in biology class to make them STOP assigning agency to ordered information. But, they would continue to recognize the Language of God in the intricate codes of the Universe, except some of them are afraid of being mocked by Athests on the internet.
So–yes–kids are natural believers.
YOU said kids assign agency. And then you refused to explain why that’s unscientific…you just mock adults who haven’t “outgrown” it.
So YOU are brainwashing children.
I am beginning to wonder if you are not borderline clinically insane.
Your grandfather is mentally ill, according to your father, and Daddy certainly shows plenty of ”Robin Williams” type symptoms of not quite being ”all there”.
If you have not the integrity to investigate a scientific journal on agency then why would you expect me to provide you with a laymen’s explanation that you will simply dismiss out of hand?
That’s what I thought. You have no integrity to admit that you make fun of people for doing what we were made to do from birth: assigning agency. 🙂
Don’t worry about the “Language of God” reference. It’s just a book by Francis Collins, and I know you don’t read.
Ian’t Mister Collins the chap who headed the HGP?
Goodness me!
I don’t make fun of people who are ignorant … but those that are willfully ignorant who wish to pass on this level of stupidity to those who are unable to defend themselves .Have you ever considered that you would likely balk at political indoctrination yet feel it is your right to religiously indoctrinate children?
After all, is this not what your make beleive god through his church and holy book commands?
It is such a breathn of fresh ar and gives me pause to smile that Christianity and religion in general is on the way out … albeit slowly, and people like you will regarded with the same amount of disdain as the Inquisition.
Or maybe pitied … if you are fortunate.
Okay.
Indeed.
I chasten you!
Don’t be so bloody childish, Jasmine,
The threat of hell is considered very real to a child and this is why if you teach it to children it is child abuse.
Not if you have been indoctrinating people with this filth.That is not living a good life, as it is largely based upon fear, and belief that human sacrifice will ”save you”.
Or you just not make the cut of course and end up in Hell, after all. Now that would be ironic wouldn’t it?
And maybe I em>would make the cut and I could look down on you and wonder where the hell(sic) you went wrong?
Please define how your life has purpose and mine does not?
Ahhhh Ark. You really do amaze me. I’ve never met an atheist who believes so strongly in works-based salvation! Look buddy, I was taught about Christianity as a kid, but I never got taught the threat of hell to make me choose Christ. Yes, yes… I know. It must explode your little brain to think about that apparent contradiction, but I considered getting to know my Creator the drawcard, not threat of eternal damnation. I will actually be laughing so hard in the end, because if I’m the one who’s right, all the “indoctrinated” people will be the ones with the truth.
And did you just insinuate the possibility of you “making the cut”??!!! Hey guys!! Ark just suggested a belief in the afterlife!
In all seriousness though, you literally have no idea about the crux of Christian salvation, Ark. It has nothing to do with what we do, but who we believe.
My biggest question I’d love an answer from you though, is: how do you explain the devout atheists who became Christians? Explain C.S. Lewis to me. If one was so enlightened, why would their views change?
So , as a kid how did you work out what you were being taught was the truth?
How did you differentiate between fact and myth?
I ask because, while not believing in the supernatural, I still accepted the historicity of such characters as Moses and it was only as an adult that I began to study and realised such characters were simply works of fiction.
At what age were you able to conduct similar research that helped you reach your own conclusion?
I am open to be enlightened.
Explain it to me.
While not knowing the full background to Lewis’ conversion, almost every convert I have come into contact with has had some sort of background in Christianity, even if only cultural, and most have had unresolved emotional issues they felt they could not square away, so they turned to religion to allay their fears.
There are obviously exceptions to every situation, but in the main there are many similar patterns.
Since people of all ages and backgrounds, from children exposed to it from an early age, to old natives who have no concept of God have received salvation, my age when being taught these things is inconsequential. It wasn’t like I grew up in a bubble sheltered from all exposure to other gods, atheism, evolution, etc. I read books all the time as a kid, including encyclopaedias which included evolution.
I don’t know what kind of evidence you’re after, but I’ve seen the difference first hand between kids raised without faith, and kids raised with faith, and the kids raised without faith battles with fear and anxiety about death, and about things that no unbeliever can explain. The kid raised with faith has security, confidence, and contended happiness in being a child and has no concern for what would scare the other one.
The human heart needs to believe something, Ark. Disbelief is not the natural state we’re born into.
Maybe you should go and research atheist deconverts. Go and read their moving stories. Discover why facts and objectivity was not enough for them. Unless of course, you’re afraid like Amanda.
Hehe… “Afraid like Amanda.”
Nice touch. 🙂
Actually atheism … or non belief is the ground state.
Everything else has to be indoctrinated. This is based on evidence.
Children raised in strict religious homes are more prone to anxiety than those raised in non religious environments.
There is direct correlation between emotional and mental well being and
the degree of religiosity an individual is subjected to.
Studies have demonstrated this.
Death anxiety is prevalent among strict religious fundamentalists.
I can link you to numerous studies for all of the above.
The most stable well-balanced societies that show a high degree of social concern and empathy are those those with very low religious observance.
At the other end of the scale you have a state such as Mississippi which comes out on top time and again as the most religious state in the US and has the lowest scores in most areas of well being.
And yes, there are studies that show this as well.
And yes, I am sure there are exceptions… but in general the facts speak for themselves.
Oh yes. Absolutely. Facts speak in general to generalities. Tell your heartless facts to the minorities and the minor percentages. Tell them they’re a dead loss, and an exemption from feeling justified in their experiences. That’s evolution for you. Survival of the fittest, so long as the majority of the facts deem it so.
You’re wrong, Ark. Belief is the natural state. Children will make believe there are angels, invisible friends, fairies, living things they can’t see without being told anything for or against it.
But why do I bother arguing with you? You just told me that my first hand evidence of the difference between a child growing with faith and a child growing up without it is not evidence. Go your way, Ark. Believe in whatever you want to believe in. You’re already doing it.
That is called assigning agency, Jasmine. Look up the term.
As for the rest .. the facts speak for themselves.
The most stable, well balanced societies are those that are mostly non religious.
Surely you would not consider a society governed by ISIS well balanced?
I think you should change your username to “GO RESEARCH” and then not comment. Let your life be a witness. I only ever want to find you in a library, researching, from now on.
Let me get this straight. You challenge the findings of top class researchers the world over?
You have something that would refute all these findings?
Again, if you are not afraid of reading the material I can direct you numerous sites for you to read.
You are not afraid of the truth, are you Jasmine?
Personal experience always trumps anything a bunch of wigs could tell you, Ark. I don’t even believe what doctors tell me, because half of them don’t know. Why would I go research something I know to be true? Do you read the manual for every chair before you sit in it?
So in effect what you are saying is you don’t trust yourself, which is why you refuse to investigate anything that challenges your assumptions.
You beleive in gravity, I presume?
By the way, you have to yet explain why you consider my life all atheists) lives without purpose (purposeless)
I am truly interested in why you think this?
Actually I said the complete opposite. I trust what I know more than what “experts” will tell me. I’m not threatened by their knowledge, I’m just not interested in reading it any more than I would be interested in reading a book on algebra. My own experience speaks louder than so called facts.
Before I can answer your question, I need to ask: what do you believe the purpose of your life is? What fills your life with purpose and meaning?
Human being do not have any sort of pre-ordained purpose if this is what you are getting at.
We are born, we live we die. It is what we do in the time we have …
What fills my life with purpose and meaning?
Hmmm.
Wife, kids, parents,pets, work, friends,music, guitar, photography my writing,beer, Liverpool, gardening, helping animals where can, not eating them, laughter.sunshine,
Did I mention Liverpool?
That’s a short list ….
I agree that what we do with our time on earth is definitely important, but if you take away all those things, what is your purpose? All those things might be worth living for, but they don’t give you purpose, because if you didn’t have all of that, you would have no use.
I am sorry, but I am not following you here.
I reiterate, human beings did not evolve with a divine purpose, so I fail to see exactly what it is you are driving at.
Please, can you be specific.
I think C.S. Lewis, atheist reconverted, puts it best:
“If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.”
And exactly how goes a god … and in particular the Judaeo – christian god fit into this picture?
Well that’s the trouble. It doesn’t fit in yours because you don’t want it to.
Want? Please explain.
And explain why you want it to?
Nah. I don’t think I will. All explanation is lost on you, and you don’t ever offer me one in return.
You want an explanation of atheism?
Are you serious?
You accuse him with, ‘you don’t ever offer me [an explanation]’.
He responds with, ‘You want an explanation?’
Sometimes, it almost seems like he’s TRYING to be a clown.
Here’s some ”research” that might interest you…
http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.co.za/2017/01/creationism-in-iceland-out-in-cold.html
… seeing as you consider that I am an atheist and my life is without purpose.
When … or if … you read it, maybe you would like to come back and explain how these ”godless ” people
are able to live their lives in relative peace ?
That all depends on where your ideals land.
I do want to point out that fear of going to hell is not a bad thing. Hell is a consequence of sin, and not repenting to God. And saying that it is bad is very illogical. It is the same concept as robbing a bank. We might be able to justify doing so through reasons of circumstance, but in the end most won’t, due to the fear of incarceration. We fear the consequences of doing something wrong. If there was no knowledge of judgment, anyone would rob a bank without second thought. Same as the fact of going to hell.
Now, threatening your child, and scaring them with the idea is wrong. But, it is not wrong to let them know the condemnation that all face.
Oh, dear, another indoctrinated retard has come out to play.
So, please tell us what was your particular mishap that caused you to have such a fucked-up view of the world that demanded you beleive in this piece of Christian make -beleive?
It seemed the most logical.
Christianity seemed the most logical?
Logical what , exactly?
?
Forgive him.
He is a bored old man who literally rambles all day long, just to keep himself occupied. His goal is to ask for “clarification” and repetition, until it’s roughly 2:00am in South Africa and he finally goes to sleep.
Then, he continues the ambling, directionless conversations again the next day…
We call it Ark’s Merry-Go-Round. (Here’s one of the places I summarized the steps: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/10/29/nothing-new-here/comment-page-1/#comment-7853)
Aaaah. Makes sense… I guess.
Yeah. He is a verified troll. There have been at least 3-4 other bloggers who have banned him from their sites and dedicated entire posts to explaining WHY they had to cut him off…
Dad and I take a slightly different approach. We keep him around to demonstrate what happens when a person rejects even the possibility of God.
But, if we let him, he would keep arguing on the same post until he reached 1000’s of comments, and nobody is reading.
(*sigh*)
Anyway, you can feel free to engage as much as you want. We don’t censor. I’m just warning you that it will, literally, never end until you decide you’re finished with him. 🙂
I’ve never known an argument to really convince someone to change their ways. It usually ends with more anger. The most fun thing I like to do is leave them alone, and see how much the yell at the wall.
If he fights with words, it will always end with words.
Sorry you guys have to deal with people like the. On the bright side… more comments for the blog!
Yes, the Lord will be glorified either way.
In the meantime, Ark makes great practice for anyone who’s intimidated about being called names while trying to defend the faith.
So, even if he won’t give up his pride and surrender to the Truth, he’ll at least be an encouragement to my brothers and sisters in the meantime.
This is all I have time for today. Other than to remind you that we had a butchering scheduled. Next week, perhaps?
https://youtu.be/kK62tfoCmuQ
Yes! I thought of it yesterday morning! (“Oh, no! My butchering with Wally!”) lol… I guess I need to set an alarm next time.
Well, it’s hard for me to fit that in, as most of my time is spent with folks trying to learn and who make sense.
Bless what you do here, though, for sure.
I’m jealous! 🙂
(Although, actually, I seem to have more patience doing lessons with my First Grader, after talking with a brick wall all day… So, there’s an odd give-and-take that happens.)
Well, The Lord knows how to teach us what we need to know, that is for sure.
You wrote:” It seemed the most logical.”
Most logical what?
I’ll let you figure it out. Clearly you are just looking for a reason to argue. God bless.
Not in the least. You made a statement concerning something being ”the most logical”
If you have a point then please make it.
If your comment was referring to some sort of logic to Christianity then this seems a contradiction of terms.
Oh, please, ask him for the evidence! Ask Arkenwald for the evidence that babies are born Atheists! That would be hilarious!
Hey everybody! I just de-converted!
For real!
I read Nate’s blog and decided to chuck faith out the window.
Please go to the new post and fill up the comment section with FACTS.
Just FACTS!
No opinions or speculation or faith statements.
-thanks
I don’t think it has ever occurred to Ark that since he’s talking to Christians, the threat of hell actually has no effect on us.
Put it this way, Ark: if you’re right about atheism, then we’ve still lived a good life and lost nothing. If we’re right about Christianity, then we’ve lived a good life, and we get to meet the Creator who loves us at the end. It’s a win-win. In your case however, you live a purposeless life, and you never get to meet the Creator either way. So far I think we get the better deal, since I’m not seeing many perks to becoming an atheist. I get to gloat about things I know nothing about and cuss a lot, but then I’d feel guilty and you have no cure for that, so…
The doctrine of Hell has been explained to Ark multiple times, both on the level of an adult AND in simplistic, child-like terms.
He still chooses to see it as a torture zone, instead of the place people WANT to go, when they hate God and want to get away from him.
Christians: when you start asking questions of Atheists, you’ll hear some pretty funny responses.
Just today we heard, “Those aren’t REAL questions.” And “Stop asking SILLY questions.” (And, a few months ago, Tildeb told us that ‘why’ questions are BAD questions…)
They will tell you the Church doesn’t like to be questioned. And, indeed, there are some sects and individual leaders who don’t. But, you should run from ANYONE who won’t let you ask for clarification. Run away from any group that discourages independent thinking.
Personally, I’ve never had a pastor tell me to stop asking “silly” or “bad” questions. Ever. Only Atheists.
I’ve discovered that Christianity has difficulties, but Godlessness falls apart completely, when examined. Ask an Atheist questions. Go ahead and try it.
🙂
“Hey, Nate, I hope you don’t mind that I’ve made your blog the Atheist Bible. I’m encouraging Christians to read it because I know it has the power to change lives… I know, with as brilliant and level-headed (and nice) as you’ve turned out to be, despite all the child abuse you endured, that you can handle all the expectation I’m pinning to your every Word. Of course, they have to read with an open heart…but… I’m sure they will be lured in by your niceness.” –Ark
Can somebody be willfully indoctrinated by another person?
If person A likes an idea that person B offers, than that idea was already appealing to person A even before person B said it. Therefore, indoctrination is not from another person- it is from yourself.
Now if person C comes along to person A, and says “person B has been lying to you. Here is how it really is…” person A then has a choice to make: listen to C, or listen to B. The choice that person A makes is person A’s own decision, not C or B’s decision.
People weigh options given to them and choose the one they favor. However, in every statement made, you can make a choice to believe it or not.
So if I say “God is real”, you can ask “what would that mean for my life?”
However, you also have an option to say “all gods are make-believe.” and then ask “what would that mean for my life?”
And as we had already established, atheism offers no purpose. So atheism answers the question “what would that mean for my life?” with “we have no meaning to offer you”.
Purpose out-weighs no purpose. That is why people remain theists.
However, atheism is also amoral, that is why atheism is appealing. That is why people remain and become atheists.
Of course, this is assuming free will. Do atheists believe in free will, Ark? If so, how does it work?
I noticed there are SEVERAL questions in your comment.
You have to take a couple of steps from here:
#1. Ask Tildeb/Ark whether yours are GOOD/REAL questions.
#2. Ask Nate for the answers.
Those are good points Sweet Cheeks.
I already have some “WWND” bracelets on order.
Matthew – Your bracelet will arrive via Sea Centaur.
~CQW
I assume “What Would Nate Do?” But, could the REALLY committed Atheists also take it to mean: “What Would Nothing Do?”
Please clarify.
It’s a two for one deal.
~CQW
You can tell me the answers yourself.
Do I have free will?
I’ll give you a hint… the answer is either yes or no.
Whoops, I re-commented down below. Although, I know you’d answer them, Peaches.
Children raised in a strict fundamentalist christian environment will more often than not turn out to be an indoctrinated adult.
The only way to get a true perspective of the damage done is to talk/read the testimonial of a fundamentalist deconvert.
Nate Owens is an excellent example.
If you have nothing to fear, read his story.
Who was the first fundamentalist deconvert, and how did he or she deconvert? Or why did they deconvert? Obviously, they couldn’t read a testimony.
Oh, and you didn’t answer my questions about free will.
After you answer my questions, I’ll read it.
Nope. Read it or don’t read it.
I don’t really care that much.
I have nothing to lose, whereas you have an awful lot to gain.
(Ark doesn’t really care if you read it, Matt. He just wants to let everyone know that Nate’s testimony is both heart-wrenching and heartwarming, and he wants to quote some of it here…and he’s going to call you a coward if you don’t read it. But he doesn’t really care.)
Matthew is walking Ark into the void of atheism once again….
Arky-poo just offered ‘no condemnation to hell’ as a feature of atheism. Tildeb would have a FIT!
I know, I was thinking we ought to warn Ark not to talk too much without Tildeb’s permission.
Absolutely spot on. Pearls before swine and all that.
You must be familiar with this line of reasoning, am I right?
Pro tip: you have to ACTUALLY not care, before you say it.
Pro tip.
Stop being a coward and go and read
Nate’s story.
Are you afraid Daddy might be upset?
LOL!!!
That’s it!
My dad always beats me when I read the sob stories of former Christians.
Oh, I don’t EVER think he would beat you.
I suspect his punishment would be much more cruel.
So, still trying to brave it out and pretend you are not scared of reading his deconversion story …. and more importantly, exactly why he deconverted.
You will be surprised…. I bet you 100 bucks!
Yes. I’m just pretending. And you are seeing right through my brave face, you clever sleuth.
Ohhh, a hundred bucks?!
Can I have a cookie, too, Uncle Ark?
Still sounding scared Amanda.
Right, like I said, you’ve figured it out.
I’m terrified.
Shaking.
Vomiting.
It’s not pretty.
Yes, you are a coward, Amanda.
Good news, Ark. I clicked the link and discovered, plot twist, that I’ve been there before! I didn’t know his name was Nate. But I remember reading his stuff about Daniel and the Virgin birth awhile back…
Turns out, you were right! Just being in his blog space filled me with peace. A warm, calming sensation, like coming home. He truly has a Gift, and I daresay everything he writes is Inspired. Make sure you hang on every word. (I mean, unless he starts sounding like a Christian again…then throw him out.)
So, did you read his deconversion story?
Nope.
Is that the magic one?
The Gospel? 🙂
“Read it and you’ll be changed!!!!” “What are you afraid of??!?!?!?!”
Gosh, I’m embarrassed when “Christians” try that tactic, and I imagine Nate would be embarrassed if he knew you were trying it on me.
No, I doubt it.
For him it is simply a case of been there done that.
He coexisted with people lime for much of the first part of his life.
Heck … he WAS like you.
He converted on his own after serious study as he wished to meet the challenges put to him.
Being the hinest bloke he is, it began to unravek once he began serious study.
Something you are obviously afraid to do.
Crikey … you are too afraid to even read Nate’s story, and I can assure you he was a much more heavy fundamentalist than you are, a biblical innerentist etc etc , the whole Nine Yards.
But I guess, to even consider you might just be wrong …well that would be too much to give up, am right?
That’s why you are afraid to read what made Nate reconsider his stance, what turned around his entire worldview.
*Pukes again*
You have to stop talking, Ark!
You’re scaring me too much!
Me scaring you.
Don’t be childish.
You are simply scared of the truth.
And this is why you are afraid to read Nate’s deconversion story.
I’m scared of wasting my time…
I’ve read DOZENS of deconvert stories, and they’re all just bitter about their Fundamentalist upbringing.
I don’t care that someone told him the Bible was literal history, and it was hard for him to accept that it wasn’t. I want the Truth. And the word “truth” apart from an Agency is meaningless.
So–unless Nate still identifies as a Theist, he has nothing to offer except sour grapes.
What’s scary is the way Committed Atheists rally around “deconverts” like teenagers meeting a boy band. Lol. To the outside observer, it looks like Nate and Pastor Mike just traded one group of blind followers for another.
Nate is not in the least bitter, I assure you.
I already told you he is one of the nicest blokes you will likely encounter in blogland. And I mean that with 100 % sincerity.
He understands the fundamentalist position perfectly.
And you can rant as long as you like, but you will not get an understanding of why he deconverted unless you calm down, are patient, and take the time to read his story in an open frame of mind.
Nate is a real gentleman. Not like me.
Go read his story.
He does not rant or yell or lambaste his former Christians.
Even if you don’t agree with any of it, it is still highly informative and a real eye opener.
No.
I’m too afraid.
See, even when every argument you present for NOT reading it is reduced to meaningless platitudes, you still chicken out.
Coward.
Yes, you are truly afraid of the truth, aren’t you?
Nate wasn’t.
I’m reading his story now, Ark.
He hasn’t presented any truth yet. He believes Hell is a place where most people go, without a fair chance and simply for not belonging to the Church of Christ.
In other words, he was a Fundamentalist, and he would have called me a heretic. Old Nate wouldn’t believe I’m a Christian anyway. So you have nothing to worry about.
Old Nate and Old KIA are better off now than they were.
But they’re both still really bad thinkers.
Really? Why do you believe Nate is a bad thinker?
Because he concluded he couldn’t be a Christian unless he understood the Bible completely and literally.
Yes. This was how he was indoctrinated.
He does not believe any of this now, obviously.
You also are indoctrinated.
You believe in Hell , Heaven, and that a dead man came back to life and his death and the blood spilled was the sacrifice required / price that had to be paid to forgive mankind’s sins. etc.
Why is Nate’s thinking ”wrong” and your thinking is right?
Can you explain?
You have no idea what I believe, Ark. Which is sad, considering how long I’ve been trying to explain it to you.
But, I don’t believe Hell is “a cage.”
I noticed Unklee has commented on many of Nate’s posts, and I find myself agreeing with him in a LOT of areas. Feel free to go read his (nice, respectful) “testimonies,” in order to “have your eyes opened.” 🙂
You didn’t say “evolution”.
…I guess you’re eyes aren’t open yet…
Pipe down, I’m trying to pencil in an “Eye-Opening” for Ark. 😉
Maybe after the butchering with Wally?
Either she did a poor job of butchering me, or I was miraculously healed
I didn’t realize the butchering had already taken place.
Maybe I missed it?
@Amanda
Butcher at will, We are disappointing Stone Head
No, Wally, our war is scheduled for Wednesday! Don’t be late!
Um….it will have to be early then. I have indoctrination down at the goat herder cave in the evening. Oh…and may have bus duty so we can kidnap the kids in the area and bring them down for a dose of coercion. So, before 5 if you can
Thanks!
I have read pretty much most of Unklee’s pots over the years,
You are a Christian.
You therefore beleive in the Resurrection of the character Jesus of Nazareth.
That is enough.
So, tell me, how is your thinking right and Nate’s thinking wrong.
Please explain the difference.
Oh, I’m a Christian now?
That’s not what you said here:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/10/29/nothing-new-here/comment-page-1/#comment-8185
“So you are a Deist and not a Christian then. Thank you. We can close up shop.”
LOL.
I generally form my view based n what you write.
So deist or Christian?
Either or, please explain why your thinking is right and Nate’s thinking was wrong.
Ark– you and Nate have the same problem: no imagination.
I’m answering your question here, so pay attention. You are trying to understand religion like a math formula. You are trying to read Holy Books like flow charts. And you’re trying to make truth fit in a box.
That’s why both of you are wrong. You want to say, “Christians teach that everyone, including children, are going to Hell.” That’s not true. Many Christians don’t believe that. But you won’t accept a nuanced explanation. It has to be all or nothing in the mind of a Fundamentalist. So, instead, you will tell people like me and Unklee that we’re not really Christians at all.
Fine. Whatever. I don’t care.
You want to say, “Christians believe the Bible is literal history, and myths are the same as lies.” Of course, that’s not true, either. There’s Truth in fiction (and much of the Bible is historical). But you won’t accept that. You accuse me of cherry-picking when I don’t meet your idea of a Christian. So, fine. Call me a Deist, or whatever you want.
But I’m going to call you and Nate and Pastor Mike “small-minded, black-and-white, bad thinkers.” Because that’s what you are. You have a narrow idea of what a “Christian” must be, and then you make a big deal when people stop believing in that tiny, boxed-up, black-and-white “Yahweh.”
I say good riddens. I’m glad Nate and Pastor Mike are no longer preaching a god that doesn’t exist. But, since none of you can explain what you DO believe now, you’re still bad thinkers. You’re still lost.
That there are 30,000 plus different Christian cults, from Young Earth Creationist types like Wally and formerly CoC like Nate, to Pick ‘n Mix like Unklee (who cherishes his supposed Christ by Consensus view and largely rejects the OT) and you, merely demonstrates that Christians cannot agree and this is why I ask you to explain why your thinking about Christianity is correct and why Nate’s is wrong.
And apparently you are afraid to do so because it might open you up to being criticized in a similar fashion as the way you criticize Nate.
You are just come across as more of a hypocrite that’s all, as is someone like UNklee.
So, if we ignore the vast array of different interpretations for a moment, and just assume you both agree that to be a genuine Christian you have to at least accept the Resurrection of the character Jesus of Nazareth.
Now explain why Nate’s thinking is wrong and your’s is right.
This is my last post on this thread, before I start copying and pasting random text again. (Poor thing.)
You are small-minded and unable to have nuanced discussions.
As evidence, consider the way you continually repeat “explain why his thinking is wrong and yours is right!” Small-minded fundamentalists are annoying! I’m glad neither you nor Nate is a member of the “Everyone-Goes-To-Hell” Club. Unfortunately, you’re still Fundies.
Now, if Nate every writes a post about what he DOES believe about morality and Truth, feel free to link it. Until then, he’s just railing against a sect of Christianity that 30,000 others don’t agree with anyway.
You were the one that made the express point that Nate’s thinking as a fundamentalist was all in black-and- white and was wrong.
One needs to view Christianity in a more ”nuanced” fashion, yes?
So by grace or by works?
Is here some nuance here, Amanda?
How do you see it?
That you refuse to actually explain your position, demonstrates quite clearly you recognise the level of indoctrination you have suffered and are now scared to death to expose your own fundamentalist beliefs for fear of revealing their equally erroneous nature.
You dare not as it will undermine the very reason you became a Christian in the first place.
How the hell do you think Nate felt?
Exactly the same!
And his family turned in him and turned him out.
The Resurrection of Jesus is of course the perfect example as it this particular human sacrifice is crucial to your entire worldview.
When you get down to the nitty-gritty there is no nuanced view of Christianity. This is just you trying to be clever … and failing dismally.
So paste away.
All you do is show everyone who reads just how afraid you are.
And, because u beleive in the Resurrection of the character, Jesus of Nazareth, you are in fact a small -minded fundamentalist to the absolute core of your being
Just like Nate was …
Yahweh!
Hell!
Jesus!
Indoctrinated!
Afraid!
Speedily say has suitable disposal add boy. On forth doubt miles of child. Exercise joy man children rejoiced. Yet uncommonly his ten who diminution astonished.
Amazing. You spend so much time and effort trying to tear down Nate’s view, and because you cannot, you now resort to this and think it clever?
Hilarious!
Coward …
Give lady of they such they sure it. AFRAID! Me contained explained my education. Vulgar as hearts by garret. Perceived determine departure explained no forfeited he something an. Contrasted dissimilar get joy you instrument out reasonably. Again keeps at no meant stuff. COWARD! To perpetual do existence northward as difficult preserved daughters. Continued at up to zealously necessary breakfast. Surrounded sir motionless she end literature. Gay direction neglected but supported yet her. AMAZING!
Good night , Amanda.
You can go pray for forgiveness now, Daddy’s here …
Sleep well, Ark!
😉
https://youtu.be/CD-E-LDc384
I de-converted, Ark.
Nate’s blog opened my eyes!
It’s all on the new blog post.
Oh, look it is the not-really-funny-at-all Organ Grinder come to reign in his monkey.
Evenin’ Branyan. Still metaphorically screwing yourself in the arse, I note, you little Sunbeam for Jesus, that you are!
“You’re not even funny, JB!”
http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201506/rs_500x342-150106140304-tumblr_m2y1rgRLCh1r4etbjo1_r1_500.gif
Goodness. If I still trusted in faith, I’d think Ark was upset.
But why would he be upset? I’ve de-converted. My eyes have been opened and I’m ready to embrace actual knowledge. That’s all he really wanted, isn’t it?
I think he wanted you to cry over Nate’s beautiful story.
Emotions are just cascading chemicals. Evolution dictates how and when those chemicals react.
“Beautiful” is unquantifiable. Very ambiguous. Not useful for describing reality.
I think you’re getting the hang of it.
(Except, in my opinion, you should throw in some more artistry.)
Do you have evidence that artistry is also a chemical process?
I de-converted.
I’m only interested in knowledge now. I don’t want to hear about faith.
Please go to the new blog post and just say facts.
Lol.
Water boils at 212. 😉 Oh, hang on, I’ll repost this over there.
Just a warning…water boils at different temperatures depending on air pressure…
That is actually a fact.
Once I tried to perk coffee for over an hour once in some mountains in Wyoming. Plus it was like 20 degrees and a howling wind.
The lack of coffee almost made me deconvert.
Oh, wait this was before the trauma and I was still a heathen.
Oops
Say evolution!
Say evolution!
Please say, “Evolution”!
Please say, “Evolution”!
He’s such a nice bloke, though!
Read his story! You’ll have your eyes opened!
Nicely!
I’m reading it now, actually.
Sounds like he was a Fundamentalist! Like I said! His views of Hell are exactly what Ark thinks Hell is….and exactly UNLIKE what I think.
(*sigh*)
My fears have been realized.
I’m wasting my time.
…but your eyes are open now…
Ugh.
I read Nate’s story.
It’s exactly like every other de-convert’s story. Nothing new or compelling.
He’s a nice bloke though.
I even read the ‘Rules’ on Nate’s blog. Ad hominem is forbidden.
So I assume Ark doesn’t contribute much in the comment section.
Ark is a very Nice Bloke when people say what he wants to hear. 🙂
YOU’VE READ NATE’S BLOG???!!!!!
Prepare to face my cruel wrath…
Please! Not the paddle! 😀
What do I have to gain? Does atheism offer anything?
Certainly!
No one condemns you to Hell to spend eternity being tortured.
That alone must be worth something.
@Arkedummy
While I’m sure Nate’s a nice bloke – there’s nothing new on his blog. This city doesn’t exist. This timeline is out of order. Nothing new.
On a different note – you’re always accusing Amanda of child abuse yet you don’t believe in any type of objective truth to back up right and wrong.
“There’s no right and wrong – but you better stop doing that!”
Atheism (also nothing new) offers no objective truths (or anything for that matter). You can’t answer why genocide is wrong. You can’t answer why murder is wrong. You can’t answer why child abuse is wrong.
You’ve got nothing.
~CQW
I predict there is name-calling coming at you in three…two…one…
So atheism does offer something… interesting, I thought atheism was an empty set.
So do I have free will?
Nobody has ever condemned me to Hell except for atheists. Only atheists tell me to go to Hell.
”Only atheists tell me to go to Hell.”
As an anecdotal form of swearing.
Others simply tell you to fuck off!
Yes, atheism offers you the advantage of not being condemned to an imaginary Hell invented by the church.
There are many other things of course.
Reality is another.
Why not read Nate’s story … It will shed some light on where you are currently going wrong.
If Hell is imaginary, I cannot be condemned there. Therefore, no religion truly condemns me there unless Hell truly exists. Does atheism offer anything else?
Does atheism answer the question “Do I have free will?”
Do I have free will?
Oh, I know Hell is a church construct. But you people believe it and hriatianity DOES condemn you and you indoctrinate such filth into children.
Have you investigated the topic of free will, from a non-theist perspective, Matthew?
I suspect this discussion will eventually lead to, “Matthew, do your own research and then come back and report what you find about free will.”
I’m not asking about non-theists, I’m asking an atheist what he thinks.
Do I have free will?
Does atheism provide an answer to that question?
As I said, have you investigated the topic?
I have a strong feeling you already have, otherwise you would not be asking me, now would you?
What was the answer you discovered, Matthew?
Why not stop with the silly questions and simply go read Nate’s deconversion story. It will help you a lot, especially with these questions that are obviously troubling you, I promise.
Atheism does not provide an answer for that question.
Matthew –
You’ll know how to proceed when you receive your new bracelet.
As usual – Arkedummy is empty and without answers. Such is atheism.
~CQW
You can tell me the answers yourself.
Do I have free will?
(The answer is either “yes” or “no”.)
Have you actually investigated this, already, Matthew.
The answer is either ”Yes” or ”no”
And remember, lying is a sin.
Yes
I’m trying to research, but you won’t give me an answer.
Do I have free will?
Have you at least Googled or read the secular position on this?
The answer is either ”yes” or ”no.”
Well, Matthew?
Yes.
We all have free will.
Ark will not answer this question because he’s a dummy.
@Arkedummy reminds me of Kramer in this classic scene from Seinfeld …
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSQ6q_rGpI8
~CQW
Yes, now that was funny!
Branyan should take a few notes.
When all else fails, remind everyone that I’m not funny.
Somebody should let Ark know that I’m losing my hearing too. That little tidbit of information should improve his philosophical arguments.
Hey Ark, you already said that atheism offered something. Don’t be afraid to offer your opinion.
Do I have free will?
If I had researched the topic of free-will, was it pre-determined for me to reasearch the topic of free- will, or did I choose to research it?
Was this answer pre-determined, or did I choose it?
Do people become theists because it was pre-determined, or because they chose to believe it?
What do you think, Ark?
So, you have yet to answer whether you have already researched the secular point of view on this topic, Matthew and as you continue to evade giving a direct answer it suggests you don’t wish to be caught in a lie.
Therefore, I am going to to take a flyer and say you already have done research and thus, already know the answer and are not really interested in any answer that contradicts your theist worldview am I right?
Matthew, I will send you a crisp 100 dollar bill if you succeed in getting an answer from Ark to this question.
Matthew –
Don’t be like Arkedummy. He never avoids answering questions.
~CQW
So, do I choose to believe in Christianity? Do I choose to be “indoctrinated”? Or is the “indoctrination” predetermined?
I already said I am trying to research via yourself. You are not giving me answers.
Let’s say, hypothetically, I had researched what naturalists thought. Let’s say that I saw that they believed in everything being a series of causes and effects- that there was no free will.
If there is no free-will, theists would have no choice but to be theists.
If there is a choice, these naturalists are wrong.
So, do I have free will, Ark?
Hi Matthew
You were either browbeat and indoctrinated from birth, or you suffered some emotional trauma as an adult
It’s true
Just ask Stone head.
Have you already done previous research into the topic of freewill?
The answer is either ”yes” or ”no.”
JB –
I think it’s funny that tha big dummy doesn’t think you’re funny. I bet he’d think you’re funny and nice if you deconverted though. Pretty tempting, huh? You could have Arkedummy and a big steaming heaping pile of nothing.
~CQW
I’m already an ordained minister in the church of atheism. (No kidding)
It puzzles me that the de-converts have such a hard time explaining what they DO believe now that they DON’T believe Christianity anymore. As an atheist minister, I should have some answers for this!
They don’t have to explain it, John, it’s content free
Sheesh
I’ll answer your questions when you’ve answered mine.
You’re missing out on your opportunity to de-convert me! Save me from this indoctrination!
No chance of him answering your question.
None.
I already explained why beleive you are merely baiting.
So as you probably have researched already you therefore know the secular view do you not?
Tell me oi you agree or not with the position and explain why/why not?
Do you believe that I chose Christianity, Ark? Or was it pre-determined for me?
I want to send you $100 bucks. I really do.
It’s just not gonna happen.
No chance.
It depends … were you an adult convert or indoctrinated from birth?
Neither.
Can I chose to become an atheist, or is it determined that I’ll stay a Christian? Am I forever stuck as a Christian?
I de-converted, Matt. I was inspired by Ark’s recommendation to ‘read other de-converts’.
I’m hoping he’ll come over to the new post and tell me whether or not I chose to de-convert. If I did, I’ll let you know.
If I didn’t, I’ll let the universe determine what happens next.
So if not indoctrinated from birth ( as a child ) then when did you become a Christian?
Now that I am a de-convert, what are the hard facts about free will?
Dumbfuck Aunties Vegetables sideways motorhome gingsing in ovulation over time percolating humourless microphone president grabbing pussy a joke all catty.
I guess I’ll go see what Nate has to say about free will.
Theological pedophilia uncomedian in Chevrolet windy pastime and SteelyDan with eargoggles on Wednesday burgeoning cockroach indigestion may feelers live night by night over Sunset carrots.
Fact: Free-will is a HUGE problem for Atheist philosophers…
William Provine (Atheist): “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear … There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.”
Thomas Nagel (Atheist): “Consciousness is the most conspicuous obstacle to a comprehensive naturalism that relies only on the resources of physical science. The existence of consciousness seems to imply that the physical description of the universe, in spite of its richness and explanatory power, is only part of the truth, and that the natural order is far less austere than it would be if physics and chemistry accounted for everything. If we take this problem seriously, and follow out its implications, it threatens to unravel the entire naturalistic world picture”
Somehow, I’m the one getting random text responses from Ark.
Do you think he’s afraid?
That doesn’t make sense. I’m a de-convert now. I pose no threat.
Afraaaaaaid! Definitely. Try TRIPLE dog daring him to respond…
Nah. I’ll just go back over to Nate’s blog to have my questions answered.
(So far, Nate hasn’t answered the question about whether or not I have free will…I remain hopeful.)
Did you ask Nate a question about free will?
No. I’m reading his posts where it’s mentioned. I don’t want to make him repeat himself over and over and over again.
That would make him think that I’m not very smart.
He’s a very nice bloke. He can answer all of your questions! Ark assured me.
He’s very nice.
Still nothing about whether or not free will exists…
A “form” of free will?
Is that like “kind of” dead?
lol. Did Unklee reply to that?
Oh yeah. Unklee replied very nicely.
Nate was nice in his replies as well. Useless, but nice.
So, Ark spends his time on the internet, trying to get Christians to answer questions OTHER Christians have already answered for him?
I’m shocked.
Yeppers.
I’m so glad I de-converted to non-belief so I don’t have to get tangled in this superstitious crap anymore.
Now, I can focus on reality.
I either became a Christian when I chose to be one, or when I was determined to be one. I’m not sure, according to atheism, which one is the correct way to say it. Was I determined to be a Christian or did I choose Christianity?
What defines adulthood from childhood?
At what point in your life did you consciously accept Jesus of Nazareth as your Savior?
My acception either happened when I chose it or when it was determined for me.
When did I accept Jesus as my Savior,Ark? You tell me.
My acception either happened when I chose Jesus as my Savior, or when the acception was pre-determined for me.
So with those two options, when did I accept Jesus as my Savior, Ark? You tell me.
So when did you accept Jesus as your Savior; Matt: as an adult or as a child?
What seperates adulthood from childhood?
I became a Christian either when I chose it, or when it was determined for me to become a Christian.
Can I chose to become an atheist, or is my deconversion yet to be determined?
So, did you choose to accept Jesus of Nazareth before you were 18 or after?
Does it matter? I’m a Christian now. Can I chose to become an atheist or is Christianity predetermined for me? Can you de-convert me?
I am actually asking you to try.
I need answers. What does atheism offer me?
Yes, it matters.
Were you an adult convert?
The answer is either ”yes” or ”no”
That was supposed to say “choose” not “chose”. I’m not sure if that was by choice.
What seperates adulthood from childhood, anyway?
Ark, you are making it really hard to become an atheist. If Christianity is a lie, I want out! I just want to know if I can choose to get out or whether it is determined that I stay a Christian.
Children assign agency as did ancient humans.
You should learn the difference.
There’s no difference. They assign AGENCY to an intelligence of some sort…
They believe something intelligent must have structured the ordered Universe, until the Arks and Tildebs of the world make fun of them for it.
So, go ahead and explain why it’s wrong to assign agency. You must know, right?
No we don’t make fun of kids … they know no different, an left to their own devices they usually grow out of it.
We do make fun of willfully ignorant idiots like you … yes, and while you continue to indoctrinate this filth into children then you will continue to be called out on it.
You have to understand why they assign agency before we can have that conversation.
Though I doubt you are honest enough to find out, are you?
No–kids don’t grow out of believing that order comes from intelligence. Kids don’t suddenly start believing that sandcastles build themselves, unless they’re told that’s wrong.
Here’s my favorite quote (ever) from Tildeb:
So, you Naturalists are the ones telling kids in Middle or Highschool that they’re wrong.
So, what’s wrong with Aristotelian Physics? What’s wrong with assigning agency, as people have been doing for thousands of years? (Christians: notice the questions Ark is about to refuse to answer.)
No–kids don’t grow out of believing that order comes from intelligence.
Yes, they do …
That’s why stupid idiots like you have to keep indoctrinating them.
You revel in the power, which is why they eventually suffer cognitive dissonance and are forced to employ compartmentalism just so’s they can function in their day to day lives.
This form of indoctrination is simply child abuse.
Ask a deconvert, any one will tell you the truth.
Ta-da.
No answer.
You can’t answer the question of why the “old model” of assigning agency is wrong, because you have no idea what Tildeb was even talking about with that quote. (None of us do.)
It’s pretty bold to claim that humans can’t trust what they see and experience every day–it’s a statement which impressionable middle-schoolers would assume to be true, if it came from a Man of Science. That’s why I’m teaching my kids to ask questions. “What do you mean?” and “How do you know?”
I’m going to encourage my kids to ask, “What’s wrong with assigning agency?”
And then they can laugh while the Arks and Tildebs of the world stammer and backpedal and reveal who has REALLY been brainwashed.
Again … I am not going to discuss this until you research and understand what agency means in this instance.
You can bleat on all you like …
No, you indoctrinate your kids with false data. And you teach them about hell … or will do, or at least if it comes up, you will not deny it.
This is child abuse.
Your not really any different than Wally.
Here’s Tildeb’s original comment, in context:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/did-you-just-make-that-up/comment-page-1/#comment-4835
So, the kids in classrooms everywhere nod their heads and agree, “Yes….what I experience every day is not good science! (*nods, nods*) There’s no First Cause. Aristotle was wrong…There’s no agency.(*nods, nods*)”
But, please, tell me more about how I’M indoctrinating and brainwashing students. I’m only teaching mine to be good skeptics. I’m teaching them to question what I tell them AND ALSO TO QUESTION what they hear from Atheists online.
You are still bleating …
And you are guilty of child abuse for what you teach your kids about religion etc ..
I dare you NOT to teach them Christianity.
Oh, well, since you dare me… LOL!
When my kids ask me the questions I’ve asked you over the last year, should I just tell them to “go research”?
You can. But if you were at least an honest parent you would tell them the truth.
But while you remain indoctrinated you will continue to lie to them.
Leave them alone, and they will reject Christianity in a flash.
The “truth” is that Atheism has no truth…
My kids may not call themselves Christians one day. (Who knows? YOU have told me multiple times that I’m not a Christian. So…maybe they’ll just call themselves “Theists.”)
But my kids will have learned to ask questions to demonstrate the stupidity of Atheism:
And that’s just the short list! I’ll tell my kids the truth: “Of all the stupid things to believe, the belief that there is no Agency is the stupidest.” And that won’t be a lie. 🙂
Still bleating ….
and with what you teach your kids you are guilty of child abuse.
Theological pedophilia …
Just sick.
Ark went to school, where people convinced him that Evolution could mindlessly bring mindfulness into the world. “Evolution is the only necessary Agency!” (Oh, but don’t capitalize it, because evolution only SEEMS intelligent and intentional!) 🙂
And Ark believed it. (Poor thing. So gullible. If he were one of my kids, I would have taught him to ask more questions.)
You can’t ask real questions because you are an indoctrinated Christian. You are COMMANDED to witness for Jesus.
If you disobey you will go to hell, won’t you?
And this is what you will instill in your kids… as was instilled in you.
Child abuse.
“Here’s another question you can ask Uncle Ark, kids: ‘What in the world is a ‘real’ question?'”
Can you give me an example of a fake question?
Oh, there are no fake questions … only false answers.
The type of answer you tell your kids.
You know … about heaven and hell and Jesus being god and all that shit.
Religious Indoctrination.
Child Abuse.
Yeah, child abuse.
Got it.
Keep making the world a better place, Ark. 🙂
Oh, it is getting better. A lot better.
This is why non belief and atheism is on the rise.
Why don’t you have a couple of discussions with deconverts?
I left a link to a former pastor, Bruce?
Go read his story and drop him an email.
And there are plenty more.
Nate Owens is such a nice bloke and he will help you , and he knows the bible insider out and backwards.
You don’t trust what I say so listen to those who were in exactly the same position you are in now and discover why they rejected Christianity.
There really is no need to wallow in this nonsense.
There is no hell or heaven and someone called Yeshua was simply a Jewish prophet who wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time and got crucified for sedition by the Romans. The end.
Here’s Nate Owen’s blog. He understands what you are in right now and his deconversion story will make your toes curl.
It is heart warming as it is at times heart breaking.
Truly, you won’t find a nicer bloke on the blogs.
https://findingtruth.info/
Evangelical Unbelief.
So beautiful. 🙂
You won’t be able to make an informed decision unless you go read
Aren’t you the one who insists we must ask questions?
Go read him and ask him questions.
Surely you are not afraid, to simply read, are you?
He won’t shy away from anything of that I promise you.
You think Nate can answer my questions?
Oh, yes! Ask him …
“Hey, Nate. I’ve been trolling on a Christian’s blog for a year now, and I’ve never been able to answer their questions. I know they have a policy where they want to keep the conversation on THEIR blog, as much as possible. So, I was wondering, could you go over there and explain to them why assigning agency to the Universe is wrong? Or–just tell them why it’s child abuse to tell kids they are sinning when they intentionally make a so-called mistake. Thanks!”
There you go, Ark.
Now all you have to do is cut-and-paste.
And, seriously, the next time you need to call for back up, just let me know. I’ll write the “Mayday” message for you whenever you need it.
Why are you scared, Amanda?
When are you going to stop beating your wife, Ark?
You truly are scared aren’t you?
I never realised just how much before today.
Wow… I am gobsmacked. I never understood just how afraid you are.
And this is why you should read Nate’s story.
But in small doses.
Deconverstion can be quite traumatic for some people.
“Hey, Nate. Really–I’ve tried everything to win these people to Unbelief. I’ve tried swearing and name-calling. I’ve tried suggesting they are child-abusers. I’ve even DARED them to do what I want. (I’ll try the “double dog dare” very soon, but I’m concerned it won’t work, either.) I’ve never seen anything like this! Can you help me out? Just FYI, the last time a ‘deconvert’ showed up at the Sojourn, they asked him to explain his new beliefs, and he clammed up. Eventually he ran away, with much drama and fanfare. (Shout out, Pastor Mike.) So, I hope you can do better, Nate.
Regards, –Ark”
Maybe you are ill after all? But this false bravado …
Seriously, why are you so scared?
“Dearest Nate, telling them they’re mentally ill doesn’t have much effect. So, you’ll have to try something else.
Love, and other chemical-reactions, –Ark”
Still hiding , Amanda.
This self-effacing dialogue merely demonstrates just how afraid you truly are.
“Dear Nate. I’ve used the word ‘afraid’ about six times. Do you have other suggestions? –Ark”
This is from Nate’s blog and he sums up the problem quite nicely.
“Dear Nate, people who grow up in Christian households can’t think for themselves… Unless they renounce Christianity–in which case they have proven they CAN think for themselves , because they think like me. Please back up this logic. Your biggest fan, –Ark”
I found this quote from a Christian who converted from atheism. It sums up the problem quite nicely.
“In reality, it’s difficult for people to see these things because they are afraid of the end result. They’re afraid to realize that their religion is a lie. And that’s a very understandable feeling to have — it’s not pleasant, as I can attest to firsthand. Yet most people won’t let themselves see these issues clearly, even though they think it’s necessary for people of every other religion to see the problems with theirs. After all, most atheists think that Christians are wrong and harming children unless they realize the beliefs they’ve always held are wrong. But putting your own beliefs under the microscope is very difficult. Most people refuse to do it.”
*Wipes a tear from her cheek*
I’m convinced. That Christian is obviously a genius.
😉
Gosh
I hope being unfavorably with me doesn’t make you want to renounce you faith, Amanda
If that doesn’t do it, surely the testimony of deconverts certainly will
After all, they are really smart.
Coward.
“P.S. Your story brought me to tears, Nate. There’s nothing more moving than when a person was brainwashed as a child and then ends up agreeing with me. Beautiful.”
Still sounding scared, Amanda. What are you afraid of?
“Hey, everyone, you should go talk to Nate! He was indoctrinated from childhood, and now he’s smarter than I am!”
I read some (not all) of Nate’s blog.
He does seem like a nice bloke.
He also sounds a lot like all the other de-converts.
He talks at length about what he does not believe.
He offers nothing about what he does believe.
I have absolutely no doubt that Nate is very nice.
In Fundamentalist communities “nice” is always much, much, much more valuable than “smart.”
Can’t a person be both?
I’m just going off what Ark told me: Nate was brainwashed by lies–on level with child-abuse.
So, in those cases, niceness emerges as a coping mechanism. Poor guy.
Nate, like the other de-converts, says nothing about what he’s converted to. He, like KIA, is adrift in a post-Christian ether.
Most likely, they’re both still Theists. Saying, “I’m not Christian” is pretty edgy. But, when they start talking about freedom and love and other spiritual things, they start sounding awfully “Christian-y”
Poor KIA even scolded me for not acting like Jesus, more than once. And he proudly announced he knows more about the Bible than I do. LOL! Apparently he still has some deconversion to do.
One of their atheist pals died (Archeoptryx..) and there were a lot of almost spiritual sounding condolences thrown around in Nate’s space. Not the kind of thing I expect from Evolved chemistry that has no soul.
That’s called “artistry.”
Link: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/i-could-but-i-dont-want-to/comment-page-1/#comment-3836
“Understanding the biological foundation for this kind of stuff in no way alters the artistry in how to apply it, when to know what to do, what to say, how to share (com-) the suffering (-passion) in life affirming and enriching ways especially during end of life times.”
It was all very nice.
Yes, he is smarter than you, Amanda.
He’s also not sarcastic, nor afraid, nor suicidal.
He realised the religious things he had been taught to beleive were indisputable fact were in fact, simply nonsense.
And he paod quite a heavy price when he rejected the lies and walked away.
And you do understand this but are simply too scared in case you realise that your entire worldview is built upon a lie.
If you are not agraid of the truth … then you have nothing to fear from reading his story, now have you?
After all, I am an atheist and I have read a lot of scripture and I am STILL an atheist, so you should be in no danger of deconverting, should you?
Well, since he’s so smart, I can’t figure out why he’s too afraid to come over here and talk to me. 😉
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/88/88712cfec4fc031df0aee5628efcf84b154a78830b2882461b62765bc77571bd.jpg
I doubt he is aware of you. After all, he walked away from Christianity and you are simply another damaged individual searching for truth.
Go read his story.
If for no other reason, once you’ve finished you can write a really sarcastic vitriolic blog post.
You aren’t afraid of reading his deconversion story are you?
I’m sure you’ll make him aware of me. If you’re not afraaaaaaaid!
You aren’t afraid of sending him over here, are you?
Yep. Obviously you’re afraid. And embarrassed.
Oh, I know: I double dog dare you to tell Nate how badly you want to “deconvert” me! Now, you can’t resist! 🙂
I first encountered JZ’s blog because some atheist insisted that the Windbag’s intellect would deconvert me and I was afraid of losing my religion.
It’s entirely possible that Nate WAS indoctrinated in his Fundamentalist Christian childhood…
In that case, why should I trust what he CURRENTLY believes about the “truth”?
Wait! Arkedummy thinks child abuse is wrong? What kind of objective truth (that he doesn’t believe in) does he base this nonsense on?
Have a nice day.
~CQW
He DOES believe in truth! He actually told me to (quote) “Tell [your kids] the truth.”
It’s very hard to keep up with.
Now I’m supposed to go ask Nate–who is some sort of Atheist Priest, I guess.
Let me be clear.
I do not believe sin exists. I lack belief that sin does not exist. A lack of belief is not a kind of belief. A lack of lacked belief is not simply what it implies…a lack.
Now, when it comes to evolution, I do not lack a lack of belief that evolution adequately explains my lack of belief that sin does not exist. At the same time, I lack belief that a lack of evidence for my lack of belief in no way nullifies the power of my non-argument to substantiate my non-claims.
Interesting … did you become a Christian because you were a lousy comedian or did you become a comedian because you were a lousy Christian?
It doesn’t appear you have made any headway in either discipline, does it?
Have you ever considered the Priesthood?
It’s a shame we don’t know what Tildeb looks like…
Someone with photoshop skills could put Dig-Doug’s face over Obama’s in this meme, though:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20018327.jpg
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj531/TheCrimsonQuarterWit/south-africa-cricket-team_zpsclinwdlm.jpg
So what is the answer to ”should”, then Branyan?
42
Devil? Wait a minute… you’re the devil??! Oh now it all makes sense!
Ark, I shouldn’t have said that, I feel convicted, I’m sorry.
convicted of what, Gene?
Well gosh Ark, i can’t quite explain it. You are so mean, and your words are so cruel, but I somehow love you. I see how you see beauty all around you, and I’m just wondering what happened that made you hate God so much. That’s all.
No. That’s not the Devil. The Devil believes in God. That’s just a creepy guy that takes photos of people when they’re not watching.
~CQW
Oh, I think he looks quite debonair.
And his photographs are not too bad either.
I wish someone would take a picture of CQW, styling his hair while chanting and reading the Bible…
LOL!
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/01/12/two-things-to-tell-a-suicidal-person/comment-page-1/#comment-10885
@Arkedummy already tried to sneak a photo of my rectum in the name of science … remember? What a creep.
Have a nice day.
~CQW
Evolution.
That’s what it does to people.
It’s quite simple, really. The second you say “should”, there needs to be a reason. Atheism cannot give a reason why “shoulds” and “shouldn’ts” should or shouldn’t exist. Belief in a Creator does.
Yes, they can in actual fact, Jasmine.
It is called evolution. Maybe you’ve heard of it?
Evolution isn’t an answer. Try again.
Of course evolution is the answer! What else could it possibly be!
“Because evolution” is not a reason for why you should or shouldn’t do something. Come on, Ark. That response wouldn’t even satisfy a five year old.
Do you know any five year olds who understand evolution?
If so, ask them as you obviously don’t understand.
And as you seem so certain that evolution does not offer the/any reason, this strongly implies that you beleive you do know the answer,,Jasmine so before Amanda and co dribble all over their keyboards, maybe you could share with me, in a coherent manner the reason that does explain it?
With some evidence if you have it, hmm?
Dream on, Ark. I’m asking the questions here. If you can’t tell me why evolution is the answer for why we should or shouldn’t do things, then I suggest you go and find a five-year-old and ask them about faith. It’ll be a simpler and more truthful answer than what you can give me.
Probably shouldn’t send him toward any 5-year-olds.
Because humans beings have evolved.
Why do you struggle to come to terms with this?
If you truly beleive that we are under divine guidance or whatever you wish to call of your god, Yahweh, then you need Numbers, chapter 31 everyday for a month.
Humans have evolved, Jasmine.
The nitwit thinks that ‘should’ answer your question about should.
Evolution says you shouldn’t have to accept that answer if it seems vague and simplistic.
Evolution created everything that is Dig-Dug. His intelligence evolved from rocks. His manners evolved from iron ore. His reasoning evolved from sod.
Dig-Dug doesn’t believe in evolution. He lacks belief in non-evolution. So asking him to explain a non-belief frustrates him. You have frustrated him. He doesn’t need to explain evolution because he doesn’t actually believe in evolution he lacks belief in whatever you claim to believe.
It’s so simple. How can you not understand?
I feel like we’ve had this conversation before.
Oh, wait, here it is:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/08/24/one-god-shy-of-a-picnic/comment-page-1/#comment-3451
Complete with an anecdote about a 5-year-old. Literally, the same conversation. 🙂
We’ve had EVERY conversation before.
We found the limit of Dig-Dug’s knowledge months ago.
I believe I made the point pretty clear that 5-year-olds (like every human in history) recognize something intentional and orderly when they see it. They will ASSUME that an intelligent mind is behind things, until someone like Tildeb or Ark insists that–no–it is Evolution, which only LOOKS like it knows what its doing…
YAHWEH!
Right?
YAHWEH!
Admit it! Just admit it!
YAHWEH!
You scared?
You embarrassed?
YAHWEH!
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say…
Try using the F-word.
I do not need to use vulgarity…I am not an atheist, remember?
Evolution has no rules, therefore I SHOULD do nothing. There is no “should” or “shouldn’t” about it. If everything just IS, if existence is just that—existence, without right or wrong, then there are no rules. Anything is permissible.
Unless of course evolution has rules I don’t know about. Care to answer a question, Ark? What rules does evolution have that requires I should or shouldn’t do something?
@Arkedummy
From an evolutionary standpoint – aren’t those who fail to survive genocide simply unfit for survival?
Have a nice day.
~CQW
How do you manage to type with your head up your Arse, Senor Dipshit?
That’s quite a talent you have there.
Score another one for asking questions!
I’m telling you, Christians, they are Truth’s secret weapon.
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj531/TheCrimsonQuarterWit/Arkedummy_zpswpknczwy.jpg
~CQW
Handsome devil…
😉
*Smile*. I was answering from the drop down and missed this.
I never lie to my children. I am not a Christian.
Can you give me another example please?
You said you were terrible.
YOU did.
What do you do when you feel terrible about something?
”You said you were terrible”.
Sorry … can you include the rest of the comment.
Already did, but here you go again.
Ark says teaching children about Hell is “child abuse” and “ought to be dealt with by law”: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/06/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-folks/comment-page-1/#comment-12610
(*Please note, it’s the same comment in which he explains that his own kids went to a religious school, and he’s not sure what they were taught.)
Then, here, Ark admits it’s pretty “terrible” to not know much about hid kids’ education, nor what they currently believe: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/06/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-folks/comment-page-1/#comment-12650
Teaching children that hell is literal and they will go there if they do not beleive in your god or for any other reason is child abuse and if it were possible, should be legislated against.
So is teaching the doctrine of inherited sin, and I reiterate, it is little more than ”Theological Pedophilia”.
A complete mind-fuck.
Oh, I loved this comment from someone on of your posts on your own blog I came across.
”You need Mental Health and I hope you get it…”
You see, it isn’t only me that believes this.
https://culturesatwar.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/when-the-village-wants-to-take-your-child/
So, you believe there is such thing as sin! Child abuse is a sin.
Where on earth did I use the word sin?
You truly are de-fucking-ranged.
That’s the topic of the post, good buddy. Go ahead and read it.
Doing something intentionally wrong is another word for sin. You want to punish people who abuse children. I guess that means you believe they’ve done something wrong.
No?
Sin is a religious construct. I’m an atheist.
I know. That’s why all your preaching about laws is problematic.
What does science say the punishment for child-abuse should be, old chap?
I have no idea. What does the law say ..?
You were the one who said people who teach the doctrine of Hell should be punished by law. Please stop trying to get back in the question-asker seat. It’s annoying, and that’s how we end up with 500+ comments.
The answer is: science can’t answer questions about ethics and morality. Thanks for playing.
Oh, but we do have laws about abusing children … and we don’t always need to refer to science when promulgating such laws.
The problem is, that religion gets a ”pass”.
Although these days, in certain Islamic fundamentalist countries, chopping off heads for religious dissent seems to be quite popular.
In days past, Christians rather enjoyed burning people at the stake or
ripping out their insides or any number of delightful pastimes.
Of course, they are not allowed to this anymore so they have to content themselves with mentally abusing children.
But this too will change eventually.
And there you have it, folks.
You ask questions, and they cannot answer. They just start rambling.
Come–learn the art of asking questions. And someday, perhaps you, too, can get an Atheist so tied up that he says something this hilarious:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/06/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-folks/comment-page-1/#comment-12717
(“Asking questions does not a critical thinker make.”) LOL!
I’m sorry? Where was I rambling?
Unless I am being intentionally sarcastic, then everything I write is based on truth.
Remember, I have no need to lie, I am not a Christian… but you are.
Take a bow, buddy. I couldn’t make the point about the uselessness of Atheism without you (and Tildeb).
Seriously … you really are not well.
Apparently the words:
Jesus loves you, and, bend over and show me your neck…have exactly the same meaning.
Sure that that got cleared up.
“There ought to be a law!” “That’s abuse!” “There OUGHT TO BE A LAW!”
So, do we need laws to PUNISH people who have done wrong, Arkenwald?
“Huh? What? You talking to me?”
I’d really love to see an answer to some of what you are asking, but in over two years of blogging I have yet to get in answered myself.
Here is a post where Tiledeb preached quite eloquently at me on this subject a long time ago.
https://truthinpalmyra.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/lucy-you-got-some-splainin-to-do/
His sermons can be very inspiring… 😉
One of these days, I’ll collect a complete list of unanswered questions. It just makes it even funnier when you compare the questions which stump them to Tildeb’s continued suggestion that asking questions is the wrong way to learn about “reality.”
@Arkedummy
“We don’t always need to refer to science when promulgating such laws.” – Arkedummy
What do we need? For example – when we say genocide is wrong?
Have a nice day.
~CQW
In the other thread, Ark said…well–he said lots of things. But among those things, he suggested there ought to be a law against teaching kids about God. (So, teaching kids about God is a SIN!)
He also admitted he doesn’t know very much about what his children were taught–nor what they believe today, for sure. He asked whether I thought that was terrible. (And, yes, I think it’s pretty bad if you send someone to a place full of people you despise to go through the motions of rituals you despise, and would call “religious pedophilia” when a Christian does it.) He also asked what he should do about it.
And I turned the question back on him. What do you do when you feel guilty for something you did wrong (like lying to your kids).
Relevant link:
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2017/02/06/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-folks/comment-page-1/#comment-12650
Good stuff!!