Sometimes Christians don’t speak harshly enough.
Sometimes we mince words in the name of “kindness”.
Try to imagine a Pastor saying something like this in a Sunday morning sermon:
(I’m not sure it made sense to blur the ‘F-words’ but that’s a topic for another post.)
Wanna bet the pastor would not ruffle a few feathers with that statement?
The comment violates a sacred cultural law:
Do not speak ill of the dead.
This, like many other cultural laws, is stupid and harmful.
Villains don’t turn into heroes when they die.
Gosh, John, it’s harsh to call Anthony Bourdain a villain!
It is not.
Anthony Bourdain’s little girl lost her father.
He was murdered.
What would you call the person who murdered that little girl’s daddy?
What if the murderer was depressed?
You cool with murder so long as the killer has some personal demons?
Imagine standing at that murderer’s funeral and saying, “He lived a good life…”
…while the little girl sobs in the front row.
Think that would ruffle a few feathers?
Try this scenario.
Imagine Anthony Bourdain asked his daughter what she loved most in the world.
She responded, “My dog.”
So Anthony killed her dog.
Intentionally killing a little girl’s dog is a monstrously evil, no matter who does it.
Intentionally killing a little girl’s father is worse…no matter who does it.
Truth: Anthony Bourdain doesn’t care what we say. He’s dead.
Anyone who talks about suicide as an option for finding peace is speaking evil.
Anyone who portrays suicide as anything OTHER than selfishness is speaking lies.
Owen Benjamin is telling the truth.
That’s why everyone is angry with him.
Here’s what the self-righteous social commentators don’t get.
Somewhere out there, another father is reading Owen Benjamin’s words.
And that guy doesn’t want to leave his family with the memory that he’s an ‘F-ing pussy’.
Christians: The truth is ALWAYS going to get you into trouble.
The truth is RARELY popular.
Say it anyway.
46 Responses
Absolutely love that you posted this, I watched Owen Banjamin’s youtube take on this early today. Initially it catches off guard, but that because I wasn’t used to someone giving such an honest take, and it was refreshing. I have dealt with clinical depression, though never contemplated suicide. So I can’t imagine the mind state these people are in. But suicide is always a selfish and cowardly action, and it pisses me off that it gets glorified.
Banjamin is a typo, but it wouldn’t surprise me if that is a nickname that he goes by in liberal circles.
have we ever considered the characteristics of a person who comes to that place to murder themselves. would we say that this is the fruit of a “follower of Jesus”… I hate how our cultures fast track to fame is suicide.. the selfish act of suicide should be called for what it is… and then care for those who are the true victims… those that are courageous enough to keep on LIVING…
Point made.
I don’t believe the Holy Spirit ever urges anyone to kill themselves (or anyone else for that matter).
It doesn’t help anyone when we rationalize suicide.
First I would say that Satan cannot cause us to do anything. He can poke us, prod us, and try to convince us, but he cannot cause us to do anything. He is not responsible for our sins in any capacity, we bear the full responsibility for every sin we commit.
Secondly, I would say that the first place to start when trying to define the “unforgivable sin” is to read and quote the Bible. Here is what it says:
Matthew 12:30-32 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (ESV)
Mark 3:28-30 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
In Matthew the Greek word for “blasphemy” is “βλασφημία” which is translated as slander, or impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty.
In Mark the words are “βλασφημήσωσιν” and “βλασφημήσῃ” which are both versions of the same word, meaning to revile or speak evil of.
Next we should check the context of these verses.
In both places, the quote is part of Jesus’ response to the Pharisees claiming that He was casting out demons by the power of Beelzebul, or Satan.
Now let’s look closer at the quotes exactly. In Matthew Jesus specifically refers to speaking against Himself and the Holy Spirit. Mark specifically refers to “uttering blasphemies”, and even adds on to the end of his narrative “for they were saying “He has an unclean spirit””
All the linguistic and contextual evidence points to the “unforgivable sin” being actual speech that is degrading to the Holy Spirit in particular.
What does this mean? It means that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit just that, reviling speech, slander, or injurious language directed towards the Holy Spirit in specific. Unless there is language I am missing, or if there is another passage speaking to the topic, I do not see how you can call suicide blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I don’t know if I posted this right… It was meant to be in response to BbBennett’s previous comment, sorry for the posting error…
Well thought through. My understanding of what it means to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is along similar lines, and deducted from John 16:9, which is squarely in the middle of a chapter that is specifically talking about the Holy Spirit.
“And when he [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me.”
To believe not on Jesus would be the rejection of the Holy Spirit who came to reprove the unbelieving soul. This perspective makes sense in conjunction with Matt. 12:31 where it states that all sin shall be forgiven except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. All sin that separates us from God has been dealt with, however the sin of rejecting the price that was paid for us will not be forgiven. There is no such thing as universalism. If we blaspheme (read: reject) the sacrifice of Christ, there will be no further sacrifice for that sin. Hebrews 10:29 also confirms this.
This could well mean suicide has been atoned for, but having said that, it does not deny the gravity of it and the consequences it reaps. Whether you go to heaven or hell is inconsequential. You’ve wasted your life and scarred others by your actions if you follow through with it. We’re given one life to glorify God with. We may not go to hell if we waste it, but we sure won’t be rewarded for it.
I remember 12 years ago there was something called the Blasphemy Challenge. A bunch of atheists went on YouTube and made the smug declaration, “I blaspheme the Holy Spirit”. At the time, I thought it was funny. These poor saps didn’t even bother to ask “what is blasphemy”? The videos made me think though. Are they really sealing their eternal fate with a YouTube video? One part of me says the grace of God is infinite and Christ’s blood covers a multitude of sins. The other part of me keeps saying God will not be mocked.
I eventually landed on the idea that blasphemy is a state of mind not a one time statement. Anyone who would produce a video of themselves taking the blasphemy challenge is clearly in rebellion against God. But I suspect that some of those people may have grown-up since 2006 and felt conviction for their sins. I don’t think it is in God’s nature to hold a grudge. That doesn’t seem consistent with Jesus teaching to forgive seventy times seven.
I would agree with both Jasmine and John on this. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is just that, blasphemy. But it doesn’t have to be as simple of an answer as swearing at God or something. I think people can change and repent, and then God will forgive them. It is the state of constant blasphemy that isn’t forgiven, because it is a lifelong rejection of salvation.
Great commentary all around. And I’m more confident that suicide is not a component of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
That said… it certainly seems that this final act of defying God’s plan for an individual, is a final solution of sorts of a life that has denied the authority of the Triune God.
It’s king of the ultimate act of “playing God” or usurping God’s authority and sovereignty.
Yes? No? Maybe?
Also… apologists who make excuses for suicide are listening to the same spirit as the apologists for abortion.
“I can’t stand the struggles of my life….”
“I can’t imagine the struggles of this unwanted and possibly neglected child’s life….”
…Christians do seem to be struggling with the balance between understanding WHY someone might sin and SUPPORTING the sin itself…
I think it’s important to remember the spiritual side of this act. People can be deceived, and under evil spiritual influences where they feel pushed to such an extreme. This statement isn’t a copout because we still have the choice, and we are solely responsible for the actions we take. I remember hearing a report that for every survivor that attempted to jump to their death off a bridge, as soon as they jumped, they instantly regretted their decision. Every single one. Good judgment can be clouded by emotion and spiritual darkness if people allow themselves to dwell in that place for too long. It’s not, in every case, a case of consciously defying God. That still does not excuse suicide, and it still doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish and cowardly.
Please help me develop this train of thought.
It will be extremely difficult to navigate if we let emotions based on experience with loved ones muddle the idea. I’m assuming we have all had some experience with suicide in one degree or another. “Sensitivity” should be assumed, even though truthful discourse will seem insensitive and “mean spirited.” (That’s for you, Ms. Amanda. 😉)
That said, here is my thought:
Do we agree that the scriptures are clear that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the “unforgivable” sin?
If so… does anyone know what blaspheming the HS literally means? What’s the mechanism? What are the rules?
Surely it’s not as simple as cussing out God? Is it simply verbally denying the existence of the HS?
What would the Pharisees (legalistically) say?
Here’s my ponder for the night: What is the one thing that a human can do that is at the utmost primary discretion and domain of our Creator?
What is the one thing Satan can do to guarantee our souls are his and separated from God for eturnity?
Cause us to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
What is the ultimate selfish idolatry? The ultimate denial of God’s sovereign will, dominion and power; the demonic blasphemous F*** You to the Holy Spirit… ?
Suicide.
What’s the one thing that God knew Job would not do, even when his own friends were telling him it was the best solution to his unbearable earthly situation?
God’s ONLY command to Satan was that he not kill Job. Satan was betting Job would curse God (Blaspheme the Holy Spirit??) and what… WHAT? What would Job do that would win Satan his bet with God??
Suicide.
So…. what if suicide is actually the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit?
Discuss….
I think the sin of suicide is covered in the atonement, but I also believe the sin of selfishness is covered as well. Redemption and forgiveness found through the blood of Christ is total, having said that, you still have the choice as to whether you waste your life or live in the fullness of all that grace purchased for us. Willingly sinning doesn’t separate us from salvation. If that were the case, barking cruel words at my siblings would’ve damned me years ago. Likewise, willingly taking your life will not separate you from Christ, but I don’t see why that fact makes a difference. It doesn’t make it any less wrong. It doesn’t mean it is rewarded or applauded. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Of course not. Whether the act is redeemable or not does not change the fact it is selfish, weak and cowardly. I don’t think this blog post nor the idea that suicide is forgiven need be mutually exclusive.
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I’m not saying people who kill themselves go to hell, because I just don’t know. The thing is, it is a lie to say suicide is forgivable, as if to imply Christians who kill themselves have now simply gone off to a nice place. Or the atheist version, “they’re enjoying the stars.” No they aren’t! If they couldn’t find peace in this world, there is no reason to believe they have found peace in the next.
For all I know, their pain is now even worse.
As hard as it sometimes is, we need to maintain the truth that says, “suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” It is not “understandable,forgivable, or brave.” It is final and all it serves to do is to dump your pain unjustly on those you leave behind.
Yes!
It occurred to me that I just DIDN’T KNOW that suicide would end my suffering. I DIDN’T KNOW if things would actually be WORSE after I died. (No one knows for sure.)
Knowing that I didn’t know at least made me look for more answers…
https://mereinkling.net/2013/09/02/the-anguish-of-suicide/
This link has a great letter by C. S. Lewis to a grieving friend. It contained just the right amount of hard truth to scare the friend out of committing suicide after the loss of his wife.
Soft talk is for fools and weaklings.
Oh… and yes! You bet your sweet bippy! I would love to hear my pastor say these words (or something like them) to the congregation.
(The reference is to the comedy variety show, Laugh-In, Amanda… and you’re too young to have heard that anywhere but from an old crusty person… like maybe your dad?)
::::ducking::::
This comment section fascinates me. John posts about how what this guy said is unpopular, and the comments prove that to some extent. But for what it is worth, I would like to throw my two cents into this discussion.
There are two things that as far as I know, should be agreed on by everyone:
1. Suicide is wrong, people shouldn’t do it.
2. There are legitimate issues that make suicide sound wonderful, and those issues should not be dismissed.
Suicide is selfish. Suicide is wrong. Suicide is a sinful action. Suicide hurts the people who love you. That said, all of those things can also be said about falsehood, murder, adultery, theft or hatred. Suicide isn’t an unforgivable sin, or “the worst sin” or something like that. It is just a sin, and as humans we struggle with sin. Some people struggle with lying, some with homosexuality, and some with suicide. Those things are sinful, but they are also part of humanity. I think it is appropriate to call the man in question a murderer. I think it is appropriate to call him a villain. I think what he did is unquestionably evil, but so is what I do. We should never disregard people’s struggles with their sin. Those struggles are real and difficult. That said, everyone has those struggles, and we need to remember that. Remember that you are no better than he is, and it is only by the grace of God that any of us overcome our sin. No matter your struggle, turn to Jesus and He will not fail to give you the strength you need.
The difference between the “sin” of suicide and other sins is that with all other sins, God has the opportunity to redeem, heal, cleanse and forgive you for those sins, once one repents.
Suicide is Satan’s way of taking God’s greatest creation… YOU, and separating you from God permanently without another chance.
Suicide is Satan’s cosmic F*** You! to your God, and your promise of eternity.
Don’t let the suicide demon convince you that it’s rational and reasonable and the proper course of action to flip your Creator/God and Heavenly Father the Bird and murder yourself.
I pray for peace, sound minds and Deliverance from evil spirits in Jesus’ name, Amen.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that suicide is unforgivable. God doesn’t need an “opportunity to forgive” after your sin, if you are a believer, your sins were paid for on the cross by Jesus. Suicide is not a conclusive sign of an unbeliever, nor is it a sin that has no chance to be forgiven. If either of those were true, the Bible would have told us. Suicide is like any other sin, with the exception that it ends your earthly life. The only sin that cannot/will not ever be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as described by Jesus. All other sins, including suicide, are forgivable. Jesus suffered the wrath of God for each instance of a true believer killing themselves, and therefore they will still never be under the condemnation of God.
I have to take issue with your statement, “If (insert blank) is true, the Bible would have told us…” Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point, but there are A LOT of true things not spelled out in the Bible, don’t you think?
Also, the idea that Jesus died for all future sins begs an age old question: shall we go on sinning? Why NOT kill ourselves? (And what’s the point of making sure everyone knows that suicide isn’t “worse” than any other sin? Who are you trying to convince? The person who’s gone now? Or the person who may be considering being gone tomorrow?)
You do make some good points, but here are my responses:
1a. While it is true that not everything is spelled out in the Bible, the things that are necessary for salvation are. If suicide could not be forgiven, then suicide will counteract any previous “salvation”, and damn you to hell eternally. If that were the case, then a necessary point of the gospel is not to kill yourself. It must be mentioned alongside having faith in Jesus as a necessity for going to heaven, therefore it must be in the Bible if it is true or God is a failure.
1b. If suicide were an action that no believer could/would commit, then it would be a conclusive sign of an unbeliever. At that point it isn’t what damns you necessarily, but it is a sign to all the rest of humanity that you were never saved to begin with. The difficulty is that as humans, there are very few things we can use as such signs. A refusal of a fundamental gospel point is one such thing, as is adding inappropriate points to the gospel. If someone can be a murderer and still be saved, can not someone murder themselves and still be saved? I do not see good or conclusive evidence in the Bible for saying that suicide makes it 100% absolutely clear that someone was never saved, therefore we cannot make that claim.
2. Yes, the idea that Jesus dies for all future sins does naturally lead to questioning whether or not we should continue in sin. However, this question is not debatable. We clearly should not continue in sin, as seen in Romans 6, Ephesians 2, Galatians 5 and 1 John 1. That said, it is also clear that we will still sin, as seen in Romans 7, 1 John 1, and James 3. So why not kill ourselves? Because it is evil. Will we still be forgiven? Yes. This is the case for any sin.
3. What is the point of showing that suicide is not worse than other sin? I have several reasons:
a) Because many people make it out to be worse than other sins, and that is wrong.
b) Because people who struggle with it are often struggling because of guilt or depression. They hear the people who make it out to be an extra-bad sin, and it becomes harder for them to fight the problem. One of the most helpful things for a struggling and depressed person to hear is that they aren’t alone; that they aren’t “more sinful” than other struggling people.
c) Because those who have lost a loved one to suicide are sometimes unsure as to whether or not the act of suicide indicates that their loved one is now burning in hell. When suicide is juxtaposed to other sin, it helps to answer that question.
d) Because every Christian who condemns sin in another individual would do well to remember their own sin as well. It is all to easy to see evil deeds, and condemn the person who did them, but forget about our own evil. It is too easy to think that we are “better than them”. Sanctification should never lead to pride, but instead to humility.
Does that answer your questions? If not, feel free to ask more.
I appreciate the thoughtful response.
But, as usual, I DO have more questions…
Is your premise that God is a failure if he doesn’t make all points of salvation clear in the Bible? If so, then I believe the Atheists are correct to accuse God of being a failure for all the many cultures throughout history and even now, which did not have access to the Bible.
(Needless to say, I don’t believe salvation hinges on “The Fundamentals” as determined by humans. I think God’s judgement may be more complicated than that.)
Also, why do you assume that wondering whether a loved one is burning in Hell is a bad thing? I think it’s a very good, reasonable thing to wonder.
In fact, wondering whether y suicide would send me to Hell is another thing that gave me pause.
I always have more questions too, so I am happy to give answers. : )
1. Is my premise that God is a failure if He doesn’t make all points of salvation clear in the Bible? Well, first I would like to point out that the conclusion of faulting God for those who don’t have the Bible doesn’t follow. What is in the Bible and who has the Bible are different discussions. As for my answer, I would say yes and no. If God’s goal is to give us the Bible in order for us to have the information needed in order to trust in Him and be saved, and He fails to do that, then yes, God is a failure. But the resulting counter-argument is that God’s goal is different. If God’s goal is not to express all that is needed for salvation in the Bible, then whether or not He does so doesn’t make Him a failure. So we reach a point of having to name the reasons or reasons that God gave us the scriptures. Doing a quick Bible search (ESV) for the word “scripture” shows that the vast majority of the time the word is used, it is to reference past scripture to show that it has been fulfilled, or will be fulfilled. Then there is Acts 8:35 where scripture provides the message of the gospel for Phillip to give to the Ethiopian. There is also 2 Timothy 3:16-17, which reads “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (ESV) So there is a but of explanation as to the purpose of the Bible, but it isn’t super clear what the exact purpose is. That said, it is also unreasonable to assume that we can know God’s purposes in their entirety. My question for you, in our quest to answer this, is what you consider to be the purpose of creation in the first place.
2. I would agree that the “fundamentals for salvation”, as defined by humans, is likely to be flawed. We are, on the whole, a stupid and evil race. I believe there is a list of “fundamentals” that every believer must hold to, and that may or may not be the list that we have.
3. I don’t mean to say that I think that wondering about the eternal destination of anyone is a bad thing. I agree that it is very good, and can help you work through many difficult questions. However, the ultimate goal of asking a question is to come as close as you can to an answer, and in many cases regarding the death of a loved one, the person asking the question isn’t asking for intellectual reasons, but because they are genuinely worried. When someone is worried and anxious, the best thing for them is to resolve it and move on. Sometimes, what they need to hear is that suicide does not damn someone to hell. That’s all I meant to say.
4. I can’t tell if the last sentence is a question for me. If it is, just tell me and I will answer it. : )
Sorry for the delay. The kids and I were playing with bubbles at the library this morning. 🙂
I think the purpose of creation is to have a relationship with God… But I’m not convinced that the Bible tells us everything we need to know. At least, it’s not the bottom, foundational thing we need. (First we have to understand rational thought, for example. We have to know what “Truth” means before we discuss whether it’s found in whole or in part in the Bible.)
But I think the comments down below, by Insanity and Jasmine, really encapsulate my position. Instead of saying “suicide won’t send you to Hell” which can be misinterpreted, say “No one but God knows who is in Heaven–but if your last act on Earth is to kill someone, it certainly casts some doubt upon which side you’re on.”
It’s understandable why people treat certain sins as worse than others… Because if you’re not demonstrating certain fruit, you might not be the kind of tree you think.
I like bubbles, I like the library, I have never put them together before… : )
I think you are along the right track for the purpose of creation, but I think you run some risks saying that the Bible doesn’t tell us all we need to know. I agree that there are many things the Bible doesn’t spell out for us, like whether or not ice cream is healthier than cake, or if a Ford truck is a better or worse purchase than a Chevrolet. There are many things that may even impact our Christian lives that aren’t discussed in the Bible. Forming and growing a relationship with God differs from person to person. However, I would argue that we must hold to the sufficiency of scripture. Arguing that we need to understand language before the Bible suffices is maybe technically correct, but it isn’t really relevant. The Bible is God’s word to us, and we are to use it as our guidebook in our Christian walk. As for the original discussion, if suicide damns you, then the Bible certainly doesn’t tell us that (see the discussion below regarding the “unforgivable sin”). I don’t think we can make the claim that God won’t or can’t forgive something, unless He told us himself. Otherwise we are claiming knowledge of Him that we don’t have.
My claim is that suicide won’t send you to hell any more than another sin. One act of sin makes someone deserving of an eternity in hell, but acts of sin do not overpower salvation and send you to hell against Jesus’ work. If Jesus has saved you, suicide will not undo that. Now, we cannot necessarily be sure of whether or not someone is saved, so if someone commits suicide, we might have a reason to doubt their salvation. Regardless of our doubt however, the fact that someone killed themselves does not prove that they are hell-bound.
I agree, it is understandable that people treat sins with different severity, but it isn’t always right. Just because something is understandable doesn’t make it right. When I fall into sin, and tell someone a lie, it doesn’t feel that big of a deal. It is easy to write off and disregard. But in truth, that lie is just as evil as suicide, theft, or murder. While on this earth sins are punished with varying consequences. For instance a murderer might be executed, but a shoplifter goes to jail. That is a difference in punishment, not a difference in evil. Both acts are vile before the Lord, and while God might punish sin with varying consequences, any act of sin is enough to send the individual to hell.
Yes yes yes! My dad shot himself right between the eyes when I was 2! Praise the Lord, my dad survived and lived another 22 years! BUT I struggled a lot with resentment toward him because ‘how could he give up on his kids’, ‘why didnt he love me enough’ ect. Within the passed year I have also battled depression, and while I never attempted suicide, I begged God to take me away, to kill me. In my screwed up thinking at the time I thought if God does it, then it’s not a sin! Obviously I was just trying to justify my “Christian suicidally thoughts” and clearly that was complete and utter sin. Thankfully I had had enough and I finally spoke up to my husband and seeked counseling. As someone who personally struggled with this within my self and family related, thank you for speaking truth!
If you believe your pain and depression and hopelessness and suffering and shame and guilt and mental disorders are too big for your Creator to handle, then you are listening to the lies of another god.
Seriously, BbBennett? Not helpful.
Yes.
Seriously.
I would expect nothing less from a spirit of lies than demands that I be ashamed into silence for speaking truth.
It’s really, really hard to ask good questions when you’re battling mind demons, Ben. I know firsthand. Coming to the realization that we’re worshipping idols can be a very tough pill to swallow, especially when you’re just tired of all the noise. (It’s really unbelievably noisy to listen to depressed/anxious thoughts, snowballing relentlessly.)
But you’re correct–the hopelessness ultimately comes from believing lies. Please keep saying true things, even if others tell you it’s not helpful. Especially if that person told me, not ten minutes ago, not to presume what will help.
Shout above the noise, Father God. Deliver us from ourselves, with your sweet-and-sour truth.
Amen.
My prayer today is to rebuke all the evil spirits of abuse, depression, suicide, self-harm, in Jesus’ name. Our Heavenly Father can and DOES deliver us from these demons and can clear our minds to shed light on the evil lies the enemy would have us believe are true.
If any of you are mad at me for doing as Christ commanded (heal the sick, deliver from demonic oppression) then look in the mirror and ask, “What spirit is telling me to get mad?”
My guess is your answer won’t be: The Holy Spirit.
Preach it, dude. You nailed it with this comment. The minute we embrace a lie, is the same minute we give it power to control us and ensnare us. The pit of despair does not have to be the end. Psalm 40:2.
A big amen to this. It’s the truth.
Some of the bravest people I know have mental health issues and they still live moral lives, doing the best they can towards those they love. To equate selfishness, sin, the murder of a kid’s father, with mental illness is actually exceedingly unkind towards the mentally ill.
John, I love you and always appreciate you for your humor and candor. But in this case, I have to disagree with you. Sometimes when a person has battled a lifelong mental disorder, they are mind-numbingly, soul-crushingly tired. They begin to feel that they are a waste of space and a burden on their families, and they see no other option than suicide to end both their suffering and that of their families. I don’t think it’s fair to call a person who commits suicide “selfish” or
a villain.” Those labels make it too easy, when mental disorders are anything but that, even for Christians who are supposed to have hope. For us, having a permanent mental illness is even worse – we suffer guilt like nobody else for not being able to hold onto that hope all the time, and for not being good examples for Christ. Sometimes I don’t even tell people about my faith because I don’t want them to turn away on my account.
Just some things to consider.
I considered suicide four years ago. Don’t try to describe the soul-crushing exhaustion to me. I already know.
But killing myself to escape my suffering and leave my kids to shoulder my burden instead would have been selfish. This knowledge kept me around long enough to keep wrestling with God and learn some other really hard (but really necessary) truths.
I understand trying to empathize with people who are hurting. But, if I’d read your comment four years ago, it would have hurt me even more.
Suicide is selfish. People who murder themselves are villains, playing God because they believe the lies being told by their own minds.
Please, please understand that your attempts to empathize are actually encouraging people to hurt themselves.
Mrsmcmommy, I am not “trying to empathize with people who are hurting.” I am there. This is me, pretty much every single day of my life, so I know whereof I speak. I struggle with it, and with being the best mother I can under the circumstances. There are certainly times when I feel that everyone I know would be better off if I just got on with it. And yet I stay. So I’m certainly not saying that committing suicide is a good idea – it’s not. I’m not even trying to glamorize suicide or those who commit it. I’ve known people who took their own lives and it was hard on their survivors, believe me. All I am saying is that no one can know where a person’s head and heart are except the One who created each individual. Other people shouldn’t presume to know or to judge – just be there. Be a light in that person’s darkness, even for a little while.
I’m trying to be a light in your darkness right now.
Right now.
Being a light doesn’t always mean telling others what they want to hear. Do you really want another person saying, “I’m sorry.” And “I’ll pray for you.” ?
It’s hard. It’s HELL. I know that. But take it from someone who recovered. The Truth is the ONLY THING that will set people free. And if you’re asking people to stop speaking the truth in order to walk carefully around your suffering, you are hurting yourself more.
No. I never want sympathy, and I hate it when people say trite things like “I’ll put you on my prayer list.” If you want to pray for someone, just do it, but why talk about it?
I’m glad for you that you’re better now. But there is no recovery for some illnesses. Mine isn’t the kind of problem that goes away.
I am not asking anyone for anything, except maybe don’t judge or give dismissive responses when you can never really know someone else’s situation. Don’t presume to know where someone else is or what would help.
Aren’t you presuming to know what would help right now?
Presuming for oneself is a bit different than presuming for someone else. And right now I’m presuming that exiting this conversation is my best bet.
You’re not the only one reading this thread. So please don’t presume to tell other readers whether their comments are helpful. When I was struggling, BBbennet’s comment would have been better for me to read than yours.
In a depressed mind, there are truths and lies, both at war with each other constantly.
Bb’s comment agrees with the truth. Yours is giving credibility to lies (such as–“It’s not fair to call suicide selfish”). Please be careful. You’re doing exactly what the original blog post warns against.
And, in all sincerity, I wish you well.
Same people who get angry when there’s a mass shooting and no one wants to talk about gun control
If only we had common sense rope control (only certifiably sane non-addicts can be allowed to buy rope) then maybe the bastard that killed Anthony’s daughter’s dad would still be alive to prosecute for his evil, murderous crime!!
Yup. You read that right.
Let me guess… “not helpful??”