Christians: How would you respond to this statement?
Faith in Jesus solves every problem.
Does it go too far?
Does it seem like an overstatement?
Yes?
Okay…
…why?
If you’re rejecting the statement without raising an intelligent objection…
…shame on you.
You’re no better than a mindless pagan.
The pagans don’t speak up on this blog anymore because they’re terrified.
Recently, one of our friends (Let’s call him “Dylan”) waded into the darkness of a heathen blog and attempted to shine some light.
Great question.
Why should God care about your wellbeing?
Christians, your response should be better than this:
Answering a question with, “Go read a book,” is outrageously lazy.
And Christians do it all the time.
“Read the Bible! Then you’ll understand!”
What useless tripe.
When Dylan confesses that he doesn’t know much about John Zande, he gets this response:
The Christian version of this would be:
“I haven’t read the Bible, but you should.”
This is the only response Dylan got to his question.
None of the other enlightened intellects even attempted an answer.
Instead, Dylan was belittled for thinking differently.
Causing him to write this:
I was humbled when I learned about a form of mocking that bears my name.
Dylan brilliantly calls out the pagan’s hypocrisy by equating their responses with one of their most reviled enemies.
The blog author finally attempts to address the question:
The Christian equivalent is:
“You should talk to my Pastor. He knows more than me.”
Impressive, isn’t it?
Wait! It gets better!
The Christian equivalent is:
“That’s not what I want to talk about.”
Which brings us back to the first statement:
Faith in Jesus solves every problem.
If that is the Christian position, then no topic is off limits.
Christians should fear no conversations.
“Dylan” may not have seen the result of his encounter.
I found this gem in the comment section of another atheist blog.
The Christian equivalent:
“This person is not interested in the truth.”
Before you can determine whether or not someone is interested in the truth…
…you have to SPEAK the truth.
And before you can SPEAK the truth…you have to KNOW the truth.
If you’re a Christian whose answers are similar to these pagans…
…I hope you’re embarrassed.
I hope you feel stupid and it motivates you to investigate your own beliefs.
If it doesn’t…you might as join the mindless collective of the pagans.
Without a hint of irony, pagans say of Christians:
If that describes you…go be a pagan.
30 Responses
Looking at the subjective vs objective points of view in this discussion, I get both sides. Whilst there is much logical, objective evidence for Christianity, all objectivity is received through our own subjectivity. This is what I try to argue with the atheists about when I bother to engage. All of reality can be twisted to our own subjective perspectives. Take the case of the student being tasked to convince people that the chair sitting in the middle of the Room was not there. “What chair?” was the sum of his entire essay, and he got an A+. We cannot trust our own minds, yet at the same time, intelligence and science is not useless. For me, it’s paradoxical. There is abundant scientific proof and logic for Christianity that can fuel a very rousing and informative debate between two humble parties. Yet at the end of the day, you live or die by your personal interpretation of the facts.
We all decide what we’re going to believe. If we believe “God” created what we call “reality” and gave us our 5 senses and the ability to reason, then we can be somewhat confident in our perception of the world.
If we are just biological bags of chemistry, then there’s no way we can trust our senses to tell us the truth. The atheists refuse to apply their skepticism consistently. KIA insists that killing animals for food is “wrong” then disengages from the conversation when he’s asked, “Why?”
JB, you are a wise and clever thinking man, and I wish there was a better way in modern America for one cis gendered man who self identifies as a hetro-normative male to express love and admiration for another. Because after reading a post like this, I would utilize that method of expression to tell you that you rock.
Maybe I’ll just go with that: YOU ROCK!
Keep up the awesome, JB.
The analogies you made in the post here are quite spot on to what I was feeling as they were being presented. The unwillingness or inability to actually explain one’s position is embarrassing for anyone “on the same team” as that person. It does seem relatively pandemic in Christianity and (as I’m learning by more experience) atheism.
I was unaware of the additional comments in the other blog, but the theme of the comments were present in KIA’s blog. Can anyone tell me what “rhetoric” they are actually talking about? I honestly don’t know and they wouldn’t let me in on it on KIA’s blog – I just kept getting accusations of “knowing what I’m doing” (which is not an accusation I get very often… usually it’s quite the opposite accusation, actually, haha). I’m kinda looking for honest feedback here – if I sounded like a moron, I’d like to know how.
“Faith in Jesus solves every problem.”
I’m good with that. No objections. Jesus fixes everything.:)
Here’s where things get dicey. That is a subjective reality, yes, based on some objective truths, but it still isn’t logical,rational,or objective. That’s why we call it a “leap of faith.” So Christians often try to employ logic, reason,and rhetoric, as if to say, my faith is objectively true, rational, and the winning argument. Rhetoric often begins to read as deceit, as manipulation, as trickery, because what we are really saying is, I encourage you to take a leap of faith into abyss, where you can’t see the bottom. This is allegedly rational and objectively true. Also, if you don’t cheerfully jump into the bottomless pit, you’re probably going to die.
As Christians we need to be a bit more willing to say, okay this is totally crazy and irrational, but I believe the Son of God came down here to Earth on a rescue mission, was crucified,died, buried,and rose on the third day. Also, He likes talking donkeys, disembodied hands, and assorted other miracles. Now here is why my particular version of “crazy and irrational” is vastly superior to yours…..
Atheists already possess objective reality or they think they do. What absolutely terrifies them is actually subjective reality, because when our subjective selves crash into objective truth, we realize we are actually deeply flawed sinners in desperate need of a Savior. Atheists are often six steps ahead of themselves, pre-emptively declaring God unworthy, because as long as God remains the problem, they never have to objectively see the nature of their own selves.
“That is a subjective reality, yes, based on some objective truths, but it still isn’t logical,rational,or objective”
“I encourage you to take a leap of faith into abyss, where you can’t see the bottom.”
So on the one hand – I think you’re right. But I think it’s important to acknowledge that all other worldviews are on at least similar footing in these regards. True Christianity is not afraid of reason. I think it does make the most sense out of the alternatives.
We cant be certain of anything, but doesn’t mean all views are on equal footing or that we should accept crazy ones over rational ones.
There are many rational, logical cases raised in favor of Christianity. Just because an argument is logically sound, doesn’t mean it’s true.
Likewise, just because something is subjective doesn’t automatically mean it’s crazy or irrational. Most people (except maybe the truly insane) know when they’re speaking about objective truth. Whether or not they admit it is another story.
I understand your point. I’m gonna disagree with your use of the terms “crazy and irrational”.
A better word than “irrational” might be “unusual”. Christianity has some “unusual” beliefs (people rise from the dead, donkeys talk, etc.). Some of the things in the Bible occur quite infrequently.
But, if the God described in the Bible exists, it is not irrational to believe people can rise from the dead. This isn’t any more unusual than sentient life appearing on Earth in the first place. And we wouldn’t call it irrational to believe there is life on Earth.
“And we wouldn’t call it irrational to believe there is life on Earth.”
Do you have any cross referenced, credentialed, empirical data, to support your theory?
Sorry, couldn’t help myself.
IB22, you say “okay this is totally crazy and irrational,” but what makes it crazy and irrational? And if you really think so, WHY would you pretend to believe it is TRUE? And if you Don’t really think Christianity is “totally crazy and irrational,” why on earth would you say so? Do you know what those words mean? Something which “isn’t logical,rational,or objective” also ISN’T TRUE. You have essentially said “Jesus fixes everything, and I do not believe that this is true.” Are you even aware of what you are trying to say?
I’m honestly not trying to give you a hard time, but it really sounds like you’re saying, “I’m a Christian even though I don’t believe Christianity is true. I think its NOT true, but it feels good so I pretend it is. Because I feel like I WANT it to be true. Or parts of it.” You sound like Joel Osteen, or Rob Bell, or Oprah.
If I take your words as you have written them- if I assume you really mean what you say, then I have to conclude that you are NOT a Christian. You are an agnostic who has chosen Christianity the way some Chicagoans choose the SOX over the Cubs as their team to root for. So, again, I have to optimistically assume you are simply using these words wrong and need to give more thought to what you say and how. Otherwise, stop calling yourself a Christian because you are not. Its one or the other. Jesus never told his disciples “OK, what I’m going to tell you is irrational, and subjective, and let’s face it, kind of crazy. Well, totally crazy, but choose to believe it anyway.”
Unless… are you reading “The Message”? You know that’s not actually a TRANSLATION, right? It’s kind of a paraphrase based on one guy’s feelings about it. Maybe try the ESV.
If I were an atheist and I read a self-professing Christian say “Christianity is totally crazy and irrational and subjective, it is a subjective reality, but it still isn’t logical,rational,or objective. Atheists already possess objective reality.”…
I would NOT be convinced to join you. I would say, “Look, even THEY know their religion is KookieDooks!”
Think about it, won’t you? Before you commit more of your thoughts to text? Because I’m starting to worry about you.
As a friend.
What makes it “crazy and irrational” is actually just a subjective moral judgment. There’s an old saying, “if you think you’re crazy you probably aren’t.” The sad thing about those who suffer from genuine perception disorders is that they don’t realize it. Your ability to doubt your own sanity is often actually a sign of good mental health.
Atheists worship at the altar of objective truth and reason, much like those cutting people’s heads off during the French Revolution did. The solution is not for Christians to come along and say, I worship at the altar of truth and reason, too. No you don’t, you worship at the foot of the cross. Our salvation is not be found in our own capacity for reason or in our feelings or in our mental health.
Do we have a reason to worship at the foot of the cross?
Yes, we have a reason to worship at the foot of the cross. That reason however, is not because we are super smart, able to rationalize, and prone to frequently display our sound mental judgment. In fact, one might even say the precise opposite is why we have the cross in the first place.
“That reason however, is not because we are super smart, able to rationalize, and prone to frequently display our sound mental judgment.”
Right. The point is that we didn’t just fling ourselves at the foot of the cross on an irrational whim. If reason has nothing to do with our decision to follow Christ, we might as well pull our religious beliefs out of a hat.
“Right. The point is that we didn’t just fling ourselves at the foot of the cross on an irrational whim.”
LOL! And yet many of us have done exactly that. I call it collapsing in hysterics at the foot of a King. One reason why we see so many conversions when people are at the end of their rope is because their reason has failed them, their ability to rationalize their way out, has crashed. That is why we sometimes say “there are no atheists in a foxhole.”
So,when we suspend our own disbelief,stop putting our faith in out own ability to rationalize, suddenly we can see some pretty clear evidence of God. The Apostle Paul may be an example. His reason and logic led him to support killing Christians, but being bopped over the head lead to him knowing Jesus.
@ IB. I get the poetic of contrasting worshipping truth and reason with worshipping at the foot of the Cross… But using that kind of language sounds indicative that there is a more truthful and reasonable option. We should pursue truth, rather than blindly pursuing whatever version of Jesus we think we know. If the gospel is true, seeking truth as a priority will still lead us to knowing God.
If the gospel isn’t true, I’d rather find the truth.
“If the gospel isn’t true, I’d rather find the truth.”
Okay,but here’s one problem with that. The gospel really is the truth and the Truth is actually a person, the personhood of Jesus Christ. So,as Pilate once asked, “what is truth?”
So what is our truth built upon? In my mind, truth is whatever God says it is. There is no “truth” I can discover outside of Him because He is the one who defines truth in the first place.
We agree on what’s true, I’m pretty sure. I just prefer language that prioritizes truth over one’s idea of what God is and what he says.
Perhaps put another way… God always speaks truth, but my ability to interpret his words is flawed. Thus, it’s more important for me to seek truth than just my interpretation of what God says.
The godless horde is incapable of articulating what they believe. “Rhetoric” is any statement with which they disagree.
Your comments were respectful, polite, and genuinely thoughtful. That is the problem. The horde has no response to thoughtfulness other than incoherent rage. Godlessness leads to depravity. Suggesting this to KIA (and his gang) will only result in mockery. Did you notice that he actually THANKED me for sending people to his blog? I don’t know how to explain that other than depravity has ravaged his mind and left him incapable of rational thought.
If you ever “sound like a moron” when commenting here, we’ll let you know. But I doubt we’ll use the word “moron”. There has been a fair amount of disagreement on the most recent posts and so far…nobody has resorted to name calling.
@ JB. I really appreciate the feedback. I think I get stuck on giving the benefit of the doubt. Unconditional positive regard, as it were. I still have a belief that I can salvage a narrative from Kia that at least kinda makes sense. I just wish he would be more direct.
But yeah, I appreciate disagreements that build us up, even if a little jab gets made at times 😀
Objective morality is a scary topic for most people because it creates responsibility. And who wants responsibility spoiling the fun?
Jb, thanks for the bump. I hope everyone reading here will come read the post and the discussion in the comments first hand for themselves. Thanks again.
-kia
Why?
It demonstrates that you and the rest of your readers don’t know what you believe…
TRANSLATION:
“JB, I recognized my name in the screenshots so I’m flattered. I don’t understand any of the other words.”
I do too, Kia – too bad they can’t comment anymore to give Ark, you or me a good scolding ;). What with me playing rhetorical games like asking someone to define a word in their thesis – clearly the epitome of obfuscation and double-talk.
Comments were closed because you were being dishonest dylan
Lol!
@ Kia. I promise not to defend myself if you give me a direct answer (maybe ask for clarification, but not justification) to my question: about what do you think I was being dishonest?
I’m open to anyone telling the answer to this question – I have no clue.
LOL!
He’s not going to answer you.
Again, I feel like I need to give him a chance ^_^. I have certainly learned not to count on it.