Last year I stopped writing about atheism because I got bored. Atheism is an intellectual vacuum that offers no claims but makes a lot of noise. It became apparent (obviously so) that the intrepid internet atheists with whom I was spending a great deal of time “debating” weren’t actually defending a point of view. They just said a lot of words.
I wrote a series of articles outlining the reasons I am compelled to believe God exists then invited the atheists to bring the collective powers of science, logic, and reason together to destroy my bronze-age mythological nonsense.
That was when boredom set in. The atheists refused to make a case for atheism. They did not even attempt to answer the question that a rational person should ask before identifying as an atheist. Before you tell me there is no evidence for God you must tell me what you mean by “God”.
I’m not going to rehash the talking points. You can read them for yourself. The evidence of atheism’s futility litters the comment section. The only reason I’m writing about atheism today is because I’ve recently had an epiphany.
The revelation came from the Bible (but not from Revelations). The book of Romans contains a verse that I’ve read hundreds of times but just recently I’ve noticed a new insight.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Romans 1:19
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Atheists duped me for many years into believing they were sincerely skeptical. This scripture finally sunk in and revealed the truth. Anyone who says, “I lack belief in God,” – is telling a lie.
What the atheists claim is a “lack of belief” in God is actually suppressing belief in God. Atheism is the eternal demand for more “evidence”. God-deniers falsely claim that they would come to faith if I supply them with evidence that satisfies their intellectual reasons for disbelief. They are lying.
Belief in God is not much different from belief in my great-great-grandfather. The A-ancestorist (person who lacks belief in ancestors) shows up on my blog and demands evidence that my great-great-grandfather was a real person. I used to spend a lot of time and energy trotting out philosophical, biological, and rational reasons for why history must contain a great-great-grandfather (whom I’ve never personally seen).
I won’t do that anymore.
Asking me to prove that my existence has a source is illegitimate. The demands for evidence are a smoke screen. Claims of skepticism are a distraction to avoid the real reason for atheism. – sinful rebellion.
Everybody believes in God. That which is evident about God has been revealed to us by God Himself. The Bible says there is no such thing as a sincere atheist. All people are without excuse.
I’m not wasting any more time justifying my faith to people who already know it’s true. If you want to tell me there is no God, be prepared to answer this question:
What do you mean by “God”?
I’m bored with the insipid, obnoxious, faux-intellectualism of you heathens. It is your right to claim an atheistic worldview. The label tells me you don’t care about truth. I can dismiss every word out of your mouth. That saves me a lot of time.
127 Responses
Ah, JB, it’s great that now you have to walk your silliness back. Now, I’ll start a new thread.
We started here ““That’s why I’ll always ask, “What do you mean by ‘God’?” Their refusal to answer should demonstrate their foolishness.”
okay, JB, what do *you* mean by “God”?
and after much avoidance of the question by our Christians here:
This is what I said “By God, I mean the entity described in the bible. What do you think God is?”
““By God, I mean the entity described in the bible.”
So…
You do not believe in the God that is responsible for the creation of all physical reality. Then that would, according to the bible, make you a fool.”
I do love when I can show that you falsely claimed that atheists can’t answer you. We have you hilariously trying to be clever and avoid defining your god. You end up denying it is the entity described in the bible and trying to make it vague as the “creator of all reality”. Yep, I don’t believe in the god described in the bible. When I pointed out your failure, then we finally got JB to say that he thinks his god is the one in the bible. The omniscient god that has to test humans because it can’t figure out what they do, the god that has to lie to people, the god that commits genocide, and the god that works with Satan repeatedly.
That very silly god.
Good for me!
I defined God.
You are a liar.
Define liar John.
Club intentionally misrepresents what you (and I) have said. She is saying things that are not true. That’s a liar.
“Club intentionally misrepresents what you (and I) have said. She is saying things that are not true. That’s a liar.” – JB
And of course JB can’t show this to be true.
Can’t really argue with that.
“I defined God.
You are a liar.” – JB
No, you defined a cause/creator essentially the vague thing at the base of the cosmological argument. That is not your god. However, if you want to go with the god of the bible, you need to do what I asked Jack to do. Show that this force is your version of the Christian god. It has to have this god’s defining features. Can you show that? And can you show that no other god fulfills this position?
“No, you defined a cause/creator essentially the vague thing at the base of the cosmological argument. That is not your god. ”
LOL!
I defined God.
You don’t get to tell me “that’s not your God”.
“LOL!
I defined God.
You don’t get to tell me “that’s not your God”.” – JB
I can when you claim you follow the god of the bible.
I did stumble upon this wonderful statement by a Christian that counters yours. https://thedeityofgod.wordpress.com/2020/03/08/all-that-happens-is-gods-doing/
oh dear, who to believe?
Did you know the God of the Bible is credited with creating the universe?
Oh dear. Vel caught in another lie!
“Did you know the God of the Bible is credited with creating the universe?
Oh dear. Vel caught in another lie!” – JB
Yep, and your god isn’t the only one credited with this. Again, JB, you need to show that it is your god that is the creator and not one of the hundreds of others. This is why the cosmological argument fails for Christians. They can’t show that it was their god. And again, since Christians have quite different gods when it comes to what they want to pretend it did and wants, you have all of those versions to show aren’t the creator too.
It’s amusing how you seem to believe that I have something to prove to you.
God has revealed Himself to you. Your disbelief is prideful rebellion, not thoughtful skepticism. The “arguments” you raise have been addressed many times.
Your comments do serve to validate the thesis of this article. I appreciate that!
“It’s amusing how you seem to believe that I have something to prove to you.
God has revealed Himself to you. Your disbelief is prideful rebellion, not thoughtful skepticism. The “arguments” you raise have been addressed many times.
Your comments do serve to validate the thesis of this article. I appreciate that!”
okay, JB, show evidence for this claim “God has revealed Himself to you.” A Muslim told me the same thing.
Who is right? How can I know?
I do love that I have shown that you lie in this article. I’ve defined god and you, poor thing, keep chatting with atheists.
The Muslim and I agree!
Oh dear! So much for your claim that theists don’t agree about God!
“The Muslim and I agree!
Oh dear! So much for your claim that theists don’t agree about God! ” JB
And JB tries so hard. Nice to see you agree that Allah is the creator then, JB, if all theists agree.
But that is not what you believe, right?
So we are back to you providing evidence for “God has revealed Himself to you.”
Show me how I can tell if your version of the Christian god created the universe or if I should believe that Allah did as you apparently think.
Again, I owe you nothing.
I defined God as creator of the universe. The fact that Muslims agree about that means nothing.
You believe, by faith, I am wrong.
“Again, I owe you nothing.
I defined God as creator of the universe. The fact that Muslims agree about that means nothing.
You believe, by faith, I am wrong. ” – JB
And our stumbling buffoon JB has realized he’s shot himself in the foot again.
No, I have evidence you are wrong. No faith needed. I was able to handily show you were lying in your blog post. No more problem in showing you are wrong here than there.
The stumbling buffoon continues to be more than you can handle.
“The stumbling buffoon continues to be more than you can handle. ” – JB
No one has noticed that, JB.
Stop ignoring me. You’re hurting my feelings.
“Stop ignoring me. You’re hurting my feelings.” – Jack
Poor Jack, feeling a little needy for attention from a 50+ woman? How terribly creepy.
How terribly creepy you give me said attention
“How terribly creepy you give me said attention” – JB
I’m polite when someone speaks to me and respond. I wasn’t the one begging for attention.
People who proclaim they don’t know truth…. why do people believe that they “truly” don’t believe in God….. head scratch….
Club, you do understand that if you define God I’ll define him. And by not defining God you do the very thing you accuse me of doing.
Ok, you did kind of define what God is. I think God is the infinite being that created the universe and the people in it. I think He is at the root of all existence and the answer to unanswerable questions. I think God is love, justice, and meaning.
Let’s see if she denies “justice” because you can’t provide evidence it exists.
Sadly that wouldn’t surprise me.
“Club my friends and I laugh at you often. How does it feel to be laughed at by teenagers for your insane beliefs?” – Jack
do you really think that the false claims of a teenage boy bother me, Jack? One who thinks it is okay for a child to be killed for the actions of someone else? Do your friends find *that* funny too?
it’s like asking me if a group of Hitler Youth laughing at me would bother me. Nope. One does have to consider the source.
“Club my friends and I laugh at you often. How does it feel to be laughed at by teenagers for your insane beliefs?”
oh and I have to say I rather handle it better than a sad little prophet who takes a tantrum and has to have his god send bears after little boys. 😀
“3 He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” 24 When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. ”
Poor elisha.
Obviously Jack’s comment didn’t bother you.
Still waiting for Jack to define justice. And I can show that justice exists. No god needed.
the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments. Merriam Webster definition of justice
But you cannot. My dear Club, if you lived in a universe with a God you wouldn’t know what it was like to live in a universe without one.
“the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments. Merriam Webster definition of justice
But you cannot. My dear Club, if you lived in a universe with a God you wouldn’t know what it was like to live in a universe without one.” – Jack
Good definition. Now, do explain how it is just or fair to murder a child for the actions of another.
Wow, quite the arrogant claims when you can’t show your god exists, nor can you show that you are a Christian.
My dear Jack, if you lived in a universe without a God, you wouldn’t know what it was like to live in a universe with one. One with no miracles at all, and humans insisting that their opinions are agreed to by some magical being that they can’t show exists.
Considering that most ever religion makes the same claims as you do, it is your burden to show that your version of the Christian god is the creator, and show that no other is. I have evidence that there are no gods. Where is yours that there is, assuming you can find any that hasn’t been used by other theists who don’t agree with you?
Club, I have no burden to prove anything to you. It is very odd how you continue to claim you have great evidence without ever presenting said evidence
“Club, I have no burden to prove anything to you. It is very odd how you continue to claim you have great evidence without ever presenting said evidence”
And the same answer every Christian gives when they have no evidence for their claim.
Now, we also have you lying about me not presenting evidence. What a shame.
It’s great that you refuse to answer this ” Now, do explain how it is just or fair to murder a child for the actions of another.”
you know, since you kindly posted the definition of just: ““the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments. Merriam Webster definition of justice”
Jack, exactly how does a child merit death for someone else’s actions?
The very existence of human life proves someone must have created it. How it is fair to murder a child? I don’t know that’s up for the being who decides fairness to decide
“The very existence of human life proves someone must have created it. How it is fair to murder a child? I don’t know that’s up for the being who decides fairness to decide – Jack
Nope, it doesn’t. Not even remotely and certainly not your version of the Christian god. But nice try.
And wow, nice to know that you just shrug your shoulders at a god that kills children. Nice morality of might equals right. You’d be a very good child in the Hitler Youth. As long as a strong arm does it, anything is right.
Where did this said morality come from?
“Where did this said morality come from?” – Jack
Humans.
Jack, if objective morality comes from your god, then which Christians are right since you all have different claims of what your god wants?
What we have are Christians who try the no true scotsman fallacy to try to claim that Christians who don’t agree with them aren’t “really” Christians. But you all claim that the Holy Spirit tells you what is true and what isn’t.
Who am I to believe since none of you can do what your bible promises and you all use the same arguments?
How sad that you try to defend yourself by blatantly lying. Christians may disagree about small problems but we nearly all agree about the large majority of things.
“How sad that you try to defend yourself by blatantly lying. Christians may disagree about small problems but we nearly all agree about the large majority of things.” – Jack
Okay, Jack are the following “small problems”?:
Disagreement about the nature of Christ
Disagreement about predestination or free will which contradict each other
Disagreement about what heaven and hell are
Disagreement on the necessity of baptism and how it must be done
Disagreement on how one is saved
Disagreement on what morals this god wants
Disagreement on what laws to follow out of the bible
Disagreement on what parts of the bible to take as literal or as metaphor or as something you can ignore e.g. is the genesis story literal
Disagreement how the end times will happen if they will happen at all
If Christians “nearly all agree about the large majority of things”, why did C.S. Lewis have to advise Christians to lie to potential Christians about the disagreements in Mere Christianity?
Now, what I’m guessing is we’ll be back to you trying the no true scotsman fallacy again.
All fair. But Christianity says that (1) Treat others as you would want to be treated. (2) Jesus died for your sins and rose again (3) God created the universe. Now of course there are disagreements between denominations and people but you most Christians can agree on the basics.
“All fair. But Christianity says that (1) Treat others as you would want to be treated. (2) Jesus died for your sins and rose again (3) God created the universe. Now of course there are disagreements between denominations and people but you most Christians can agree on the basics.”
So you agree the differences I noted aren’t “small differences”? Christianity, as you know, doesn’t just say treat others as you would want to be treated. That isn’t even unique to Christianity.
Most religions claim that their god created the universe so agreement upon this is essentially meaningless, IMO.
Jesus died and rose again but for what since Christians don’t agree.
so we have one point that Christians agree on, which is indeed what Paul says is important, no resurrection no reason to believe in the whole thing.
Here’s an example of the differences and how it majorly changes the theology: some Christians believe that the two creation stories in genesis are just metaphor. What they don’t think about is If they are metaphor, then there is no need for Jesus to be real.
Treat as you would want to be treated is obviously not the only thing in Christianity. However, it is a very important part. And yes it was original to Christianity it’s just a good principle so now other people have adopted it. You should try it.
How does the fact that
multiple religions agree about something automatically invalidate it. It seems to me that if two sides that agree on virtually nothing agree on one thing would make it more likely to exist.
I have never met a Christian who disagrees about what Jesus does for. He died because humans needed redeeming for their wretchedness. I’m confident the rest of the Christians reading this will agree. To be fair their probably won’t be a lot because most people actually have important things to do, not listen to a teenager and a Middle aged woman argue.
“Treat as you would want to be treated is obviously not the only thing in Christianity. However, it is a very important part. And yes it was original to Christianity it’s just a good principle so now other people have adopted it. You should try it.
How does the fact that multiple religions agree about something automatically invalidate it. It seems to me that if two sides that agree on virtually nothing agree on one thing would make it more likely to exist.
I have never met a Christian who disagrees about what Jesus does for. He died because humans needed redeeming for their wretchedness. I’m confident the rest of the Christians reading this will agree. To be fair their probably won’t be a lot because most people actually have important things to do, not listen to a teenager and a Middle aged woman argue.” – Jack
Yes, I know, the golden rule isn’t the only thing in Christianity and your claim that it is only a Christian thing was either a lie or ignorance. You can see here the evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule Now, you’ll probably try to whine about it being a wiki entry but it has the facts you will no doubt be very desperate to deny. You can also look up the rule of reciprocity to see again that you are incorrect> This rule is also not a very important part since this god commands people to be killed and kills them itself. What we have is a deep contradiction in your bible’s philosophy.
It is Christians who have taken it from other religion. You again aren’t special at all. And I do value the golden rule, I want people to tell me if I’m wrong and present evidence for it. I treat them the same way. I treat people fairly, unlike how your god supposed acts. To return to my questions, do you belief that the differences I listed are “major” or “small” differences?
That multiple religions claim different gods but claim the same action by these gods invalidates your claims since you cannot show that these other gods don’t exist nor can you show your own god to exist. You don’t worship Allah, do you Jack? Or Vishnu? Or Ahura Mazda? You try to use the same arguments, and then claim that those arguments don’t apply to gods you don’t like. That’s hypocrisy, Jack.
What you and poor JB try is the argument from popularity fallacy: that since an idea is popular, it must be true. By this logical failure, then Roman Catholicism should be the “right” version of Chrsitianity but you don’t think so, right? And when Islam overtakes all of the sects of Christianity, it will becomes the “right” religion because of your logical failure. Not even Christians believe in the same god since you all assign to it different moralities.
I suspect that you are using the no scotsman logical fallacy again when you try this “I have never met a Christian who disagrees about what Jesus does (dies?) for.” What sins, Jack? Christians don’t agree on what this god considers sin. It’s not just “wretchedness” this savior supposedly died for, it was specific actions; specific actions that Christians don’t agree on. Your attempt to make up a vague thing like “wretchedness” is common to Christians who realize that they don’t agree and have to change their story.
Club, you’ve tried very hard to prove to me why my god isn’t real and you have not changed my mind. I’m quarantined at my house and have better things to do than argue with you. Good luck I hope you find purpose in your life. Goodbye Jack
This is by no means me admitting defeat. I just thought I’d clarify that.
“Club, you’ve tried very hard to prove to me why my god isn’t real and you have not changed my mind. I’m quarantined at my house and have better things to do than argue with you. Good luck I hope you find purpose in your life. Goodbye Jack
This is by no means me admitting defeat. I just thought I’d clarify that.” – Jack
No, Jack, that is exactly you admitting defeat.
You cannot answer basic questions like: is it fair or just for a god to kill a child for the actions of another?” other than to say that your god can do what it wants aka “might equals right”. How convenient when you have failed to use anything but fallacies to suddenly quit.
do you belief that the differences I listed are “major” or “small” differences?
That multiple religions claim different gods but claim the same action by these gods invalidates your claims since you cannot show that these other gods don’t exist nor can you show your own god to exist. You don’t worship Allah, do you Jack? Or Vishnu? Or Ahura Mazda?
What you and poor JB try is the argument from popularity fallacy: that since an idea is popular, it must be true. By this logical failure, then Roman Catholicism should be the “right” version of Chrsitianity but you don’t think so, right? And when Islam overtakes all of the sects of Christianity, it will becomes the “right” religion because of your logical failure. Not even Christians believe in the same god since you all assign to it different moralities.
I suspect that you are using the no scotsman logical fallacy again when you try this “I have never met a Christian who disagrees about what Jesus does (dies?) for.” What sins, Jack? Christians don’t agree on what this god considers sin. It’s not just “wretchedness” this savior supposedly died for, it was specific actions; specific actions that Christians don’t agree on. Your attempt to make up a vague thing like “wretchedness” is common to Christians who realize that they don’t agree and have to change their story.
and a teenage boy has what to do when he is quarantined? If you are going to lie, Jack, at least think about what you are saying. 🙂
I’ve got this great show called Parks and Recreation that I’ve been watching. I’ve watched over 50 episodes in 5 days. I’m living my best life!
“I’ve got this great show called Parks and Recreation that I’ve been watching. I’ve watched over 50 episodes in 5 days. I’m living my best life!” – Jack
Why thanks, Jack for making yourself look totally ridiculous. Yep, watching TV is the important thing that a teenage boy has to do as he states below when he can’t support his claims.
“Club, you’ve tried very hard to prove to me why my god isn’t real and you have not changed my mind. I’m quarantined at my house and have better things to do than argue with you. Good luck I hope you find purpose in your life. Goodbye Jack
This is by no means me admitting defeat. I just thought I’d clarify that”
Are your feelings hurt that a boy would rather watch TV than continue being harassed by a mean, old lady?
He said he has better things to do, and he’s right! Watching paint dry would be better… Watching Parks and Rec is the obvious choice. 🙂
It would be a fun activity to list things that are more fun than interacting with Vel. Here’s my abridged list:
Have dental work done sans anesthesia.
Practice putting on socks.
Eat crayons.
Watch snails race.
Learn to speak Klingon.
Stare.
“Are your feelings hurt that a boy would rather watch TV than continue being harassed by a mean, old lady?
He said he has better things to do, and he’s right! Watching paint dry would be better… Watching Parks and Rec is the obvious choice” – Amanda aka mrsmcmommy
not at all, I do love to call out hypocrites and liars like you, JB and Jack. Poor Jack, unable to answer questions so he runs away, and tries to declare it isn’t running away.
You are one of the meanest, most unlikable people I have ever encountered.
No lie.
“You are one of the meanest, most unlikable people I have ever encountered.
No lie.” – JB
I doubt that JB. You interact with conservative Christians all of the time.
What you don’t like is that I show you to be wrong repeatedly and I show that conservative Christians rely on ignorance, baseless claims and fear. You’ve realized that you don’t have a special place in the world anymore, and you can’t spread such things without being countered by reality.
Your morality has been revealed for what it is: might equals right. And you are upset you aren’t the “might” anymore.
None of what you said is true.
You’re unlikable and that’s on you. Not me.
I finished Parks and Rec. Stellar show.
“None of what you said is true.
You’re unlikable and that’s on you. Not me. ” – JB
as always, JB can’t support his claims.
LOL!
I fully support JB on that one. Lol
“I fully support JB on that one. Lol” – Jack
yep, two Christians who make the same false claims. a shame that your god has you as apologists, not exactly batting a thousand with pitiful attempts to laugh away your failure.
Do you know we laugh about your angry comments a lot? Is that your goal?
If not, you should talk to us the way you want us to talk to you. Treat people like you want to be treated. Otherwise, everyone is just going to keep laughing at you.
“Do you know we laugh about your angry comments a lot? Is that your goal?
If not, you should talk to us the way you want us to talk to you. Treat people like you want to be treated. Otherwise, everyone is just going to keep laughing at you.” JB
JB, please do continue trying to laugh at me. My goal is to show that all you have is claims of laughter and are unable to actually discuss things. My goal is to show that poor JB’s claims about atheists are wrong, like this one: “Last year I stopped writing about atheism because I got bored. Atheism is an intellectual vacuum that offers no claims but makes a lot of noise. It became apparent (obviously so) that the intrepid internet atheists with whom I was spending a great deal of time “debating” weren’t actually defending a point of view. They just said a lot of words.”
yep, sure, JB. 🙂
I’m more than happy to write at you the way I always have, showing that reality doesn’t agree with you. It’s great when it shows that you have nothing except attempts at insults and false laughter. I treat you as I do want to be treated, confronted with reality and expected to offer a coherent argument.
Alas, for you, JB, you have shown you can’t do that. All you have is baseless claims, and playground insults.
LOL
Club my friends and I laugh at you often. How does it feel to be laughed at by teenagers for your insane beliefs?
“Obviously Jack’s comment didn’t bother you.” – JB
Figured that out, did you? 🙂
I see you defined god where I couldn’t see it in a thread. Interesting choice. I don’t bother looking at JB’s post but once, and then just replying to messages to me.
“Ok, you did kind of define what God is. I think God is the infinite being that created the universe and the people in it. I think He is at the root of all existence and the answer to unanswerable questions. I think God is love, justice, and meaning.”
So, it’s not the god in the bible? JB said his version of what you said wasn’t and I said that ““By God, I mean the entity described in the bible.” – Vel/Club
“So…
You do not believe in the God that is responsible for the creation of all physical reality. Then that would, according to the bible, make you a fool.” – JB
IT’s pretty funny that JB doesn’t think that the bible god isn’t responsible for the creation of all physical reality. I do wonder what JB thinks Genesis says, plus all of the claims of this omnipotent god. If questions are “unanswerable” how does this god answer them? “God did it” is the answer of all theists for all of their gods so your claims are nothing new and as baseless as always.
It seems, Jack, that you’ve taken the route of so many Christians, to make your god so vague that you think no one can point out that there is no evidence for it.
Can you explain what you think justice means? Does it mean a god that intentionally prevents people from accepting it and then damning them for what it caused them to do? Is that fair/just? Or are we back to Christians having no more than morality based on might equals right.
“IT’s pretty funny that JB doesn’t think that the bible god isn’t responsible for the creation of all physical reality.” – Club
It’s pretty funny that Club thinks she can just assign my beliefs and nobody will notice.
You’ll find that the “God of the Bible” and the “God that created all reality” are the same God according to me.
Is that still too vague?
The entire universe is evidence for God. But feel free to keep repeating your “no evidence” screed. It amuses me.
is the god described in your bible your god, Jack? JB seemed to have a bit of a problem deciding that.
You lie.
You lie. – JB
Not at all.
““Ok, you did kind of define what God is. I think God is the infinite being that created the universe and the people in it. I think He is at the root of all existence and the answer to unanswerable questions. I think God is love, justice, and meaning.”
So, it’s not the god in the bible? JB said his version of what you said wasn’t and I said that ““By God, I mean the entity described in the bible.” – Vel/Club
“So…
You do not believe in the God that is responsible for the creation of all physical reality. Then that would, according to the bible, make you a fool.” – JB”
Sure is.
“Sure is.” – Jack (in response to “is the god described in your bible your god, Jack? ”
Good. Now you can start showing evidence that one exists. How do you know it is the creator and no other god claimed to be so is? That the bible says so is not evidence, unless you want to agree that since the qu’ran claims that Allah created the universe that is equal evidence to your claim. And the cosmological argument doesn’t work for the bible god; there is no way to show that the creator is your god since that acting force has no more defining feature than “cause”.
The Koran( or how you spelled I’m not sure which is correct) takes most of its stories from the Bible. So biblical teachings make up a large part of two religions.
“The Koran( or how you spelled I’m not sure which is correct) takes most of its stories from the Bible. So biblical teachings make up a large part of two religions.” – Jack.
Nice to see you are very ignorant about the qu’ran/koran. Its stories have some similarities but are quite different in the details.
Is the god of the qu’ran your god Jack? Or is the god of the bible and the god of the qu’ran not the same at all?
Again, Jack, do address my points and not try to ignore them so clumsily.
How do you know it is the creator and no other god claimed to be so is? That the bible says so is not evidence, unless you want to agree that since the qu’ran claims that Allah created the universe that is equal evidence to your claim. And the cosmological argument doesn’t work for the bible god; there is no way to show that the creator is your god since that acting force has no more defining feature than “cause”
The problem with your questions (and arguments) is they assume polytheism is true. Your questions assume the “god of the bible” and “the god of the qu’ran” are fighting for superiority.
Christianity (and Islam, and Judaism) are MONOTHEISTIC religions. There is only ONE God. We may have different ideas about the nature of that God, but we agree that God created everything.
You should ask your questions to a polytheist.
“The problem with your questions (and arguments) is they assume polytheism is true. Your questions assume the “god of the bible” and “the god of the qu’ran” are fighting for superiority.
Christianity (and Islam, and Judaism) are MONOTHEISTIC religions. There is only ONE God. We may have different ideas about the nature of that God, but we agree that God created everything.
You should ask your questions to a polytheist. ” – JB
It’s quite funny for you to claim I’m assuming polytheism is true when I’m an atheist.
Quite the contrary, I assume that there are no gods. It is theists who try to claim that their god is the only god or gods and that all others don’t exist.
But you can’t show that to be the case.
Yep, you all agree that different gods created everything. They aren’t the same, unless you want to claim you are a Muslim. So which one of these three is it, JB? How should I know since you can’t show that any of them exist?
We also have that little problem in Exodus where your god admits that there are other gods that the poor thing is jealous of.
” I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 you shall have no other gods before[a] me.” – [a]or besides me. Exodus 20
So we have a god that knows that there are other gods out there because it doesn’t them being worshiped in addition to him. If there were no gods, then this commandment is meaningless.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Now is your god so silly to be jealous (hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage – merriam webster dictionary) of pieces of wood and metal?
God revealed Himself to you.
You chose to reject Him.
You cut yourself off from the source of reason and wisdom. All you have left is hubris.
If you’re incapable of comprehending that I am not a polytheist then you’re not going to be able to understand anything I say regarding religion.
Yes I can agree with the qu’ran on the point that God( the being that created the universe) created the universe. Does that mean I agree with the qu’ran, no, but I do believe a god created the universe.
“God revealed Himself to you.
You chose to reject Him.
You cut yourself off from the source of reason and wisdom. All you have left is hubris.
If you’re incapable of comprehending that I am not a polytheist then you’re not going to be able to understand anything I say regarding religion – JB
I do understand you, JB, and what we’ve ended up seeing you do is repeating more false claims as if repeating them will magically make them true.
You make the same arguments that other theists that you claim are wrong.
All you have is your attempt to claim that your opinions are the “source of reason and wisdom”, just like most every other theist, again those who you claim are wrong. Claiming I have “hubris” to doubt you is what every theist claims about the next theist who doesn’t agree with them.
You aren’t a polytheist, no one ever said that. Your reading comprehension is failing. You are a Christian who wants to pretend that only his version of his god exists but who can’t explain why his god would be jealous of other gods that supposedly don’t exist. We have three related but directly contradictory religions claiming that each has the one true monotheistic god that I simply must see evidence of in the universe.
Each uses the same arguments as the others, each insisting that their particular god revealed themselves and that their god was rejected. Believers are sure that each other are wrong.
I disbelieve in one more god than you do, my fellow atheist.
“we’ve ended up seeing you do is repeating more false claims…”
You’re lying.
“All you have is your attempt to claim that your opinions are the “source of reason and wisdom…”
You’re lying.
“You are a Christian who wants to pretend that only his version of his god exists…”
Another lie.
“We have three related but directly contradictory religions claiming that each has the one true monotheistic god…”
And another lie.
I have quite clearly articulated my beliefs. You choose to ignore my actual claims and argue against things I’ve never said.
You’re a liar, Vel.
“Yes I can agree with the qu’ran on the point that God( the being that created the universe) created the universe. Does that mean I agree with the qu’ran, no, but I do believe a god created the universe.” – Jack
and we are back to having no evidence for this belief or for your version of the Christian god.
How do you know it is the creator and no other god claimed to be so is? If one part of the qu’ran is believable why aren’t the other parts?
““we’ve ended up seeing you do is repeating more false claims…”
You’re lying.
“All you have is your attempt to claim that your opinions are the “source of reason and wisdom…”
You’re lying.
“You are a Christian who wants to pretend that only his version of his god exists…”
Another lie.
“We have three related but directly contradictory religions claiming that each has the one true monotheistic god…”
And another lie.
I have quite clearly articulated my beliefs. You choose to ignore my actual claims and argue against things I’ve never said.
You’re a liar, Vel.” 0 JB
nice cutting and pasting.
unsurprisingly, no evidence for your claims. it’s hilarious that you have to claim simple facts are wrong in your desperation: “three related but directly contradictory religions claiming that each has the one true monotheistic god” and this “You are a Christian who wants to pretend that only his version of his god exists”
So, JB did you become a polytheist since you now want to claim you *don’t* only believe your version of your god exists?
you have tried to claim that your god is the creator, using arguments that other theists use. You try to claim that those arguments don’t work for them but work for you but you still have no evidence of your claims.
In the last few weeks, we have seen Christians and other theists by the millions admit that their god has no power against a virus. We also have Christians and other theists who lie and claim that they can heal this virus or magic it away.
Religion has failed.
Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen
The atheists worship themselves(a created thing) and accept a lie for this there is no excuse. I am always amazed by the energy they use to oppose something they supposedly don’t believe in.
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good. Ps 14:1 The Hebrew words rendered fool in Psalms denote one who is morally deficient.
“Last year I stopped writing about atheism because I got bored. Atheism is an intellectual vacuum that offers no claims but makes a lot of noise. ”
aka, I couldn’t answer questions posed to me and I found I had to lie constantly about atheism being an “intellectual vacuum.
“Atheists duped me for many years into believing they were sincerely skeptical. This scripture finally sunk in and revealed the truth. Anyone who says, “I lack belief in God,” – is telling a lie.”
That’s pretty much why I quit arguing with them, too. That, and that their incoherence made my head hurt. As you found, most of these alleged atheists are ex-Christian Internet trolls who can’t seem to stop commenting.
I did wonder why THEY spent so much time arguing on Christian blogs and talking about it incessantly on their own blog echo chambers. I always though, if you think we’re stupid for believing in God, why bother with us? Just move on with your godless nihilism and finally be free of it, as you keep telling us you are. Then I realized that they’re like angry “ex’s” after an ugly divorce. They want the whole world to know just how bad their ex-spouse is. They can’t seem to move past it. Of course, we know there’s more to the story than this blame-game, even with broken marriages. Either way, it’s a colossal waste of time.
I started out with belief in Christianity and because of my willful sinful rebellion walked away from the truth. I dabbled in other belief systems: agnosticism, nihilism, a theistic world view of a ‘detached god’, but no matter my struggles in faith, I could NEVER bring myself to be an atheist. It was just too stupid, it never made any sense to my logical sensibilities. I was in rebellion, but I wasn’t an idiot…ok, I was ALSO an idiot, but I wasn’t that dumb.
Every second I spent away from God, I knew all my excuses were just salves for my conscience to help me sleep at night. They were lies I tried to convince myself of intellectually, but deep down my heart knew the truth. If I wanted to find any value to my own life; if any human is to ever have any kind of value, it comes from a God who loves us and created us. By creating the world, God has left us without excuse. No matter what we believe about the beginning of the universe, we all believe SOMETHING. God hasn’t given us the option of atheism because He didn’t intend to.
Very well said John! I too tell people when they say “I don’t believe in God” the same thing straight up….”Yes you do, you just refuse to admit it out loud” Sadddened a bit that I won’t get to enjoy your often witty responses to the atheist trolls….they were often the highlight of my day! 😁
Tim
Sounds like Matthew 7:6 is in effect. They always seem to be disingenuous in their replies.
I swear I typed “John” and not “On”.
On, you are right. The conversation is always circular, going back to the same things. They accuse me of being afraid to answer whatever foolish question they ask, then pass over the questions I ask.
But, keeping a sense of humor when they get mad is kinda satisfying.
I like to thank them for the insights about how it’s all in my brain, (compliment, don’t you think?) and then suddenly realize that God can even use a brain ( that he created). I really enjoyed this piece.
A lot.
I am glad you remember the power of the brain Randy, your religion reacts the same areas of the brain as when you have a good time with drugs, booze, sex and music etc. Of course your praying enjoyment is much cheaper and likely in some cases better on the health.
It may be a good thing, sklyjd, that you are beginning to recognize the dangers of voiding the manufacturer’s original warranty.
“What is truth in your worldview? What standard of truth will you use to evaluate and reason with the ‘evidence’ provided to you?”
And finally…
“Could you be wrong about everything you profess to know?”
No one can know anything for certain without first starting with a God that promises to reveal all knowledge and wisdom.
The irony is that we DO KNOW things, which proves that God’s word is true. When we profess we don’t know things (like that God is the source of knowledge) we are simply denying that truth and believing our own lie.
Nope. I’m done asking those questions.
They won’t answer them anyway.
When they can’t even explain what it is they don’t believe exists, I move on.
Atheists do believe in God their “lack of belief” is their god.
I read your posts and really enjoyed them. I’ve had vague thoughts about most of them and now I can put them into words.
Also, I learned that Club’s name used to be Vel, who knew!
Knowledge is power.
At this point are you just bored of arguing with the atheist or do you just not see a point?
Both.
Interacting with hard-core skeptics is tedious. They refuse to admit that atheism is a “belief” which they think exempts them supporting it.
Ask them if they believe atheism is true. They won’t answer. Instead, they’ll demand evidence for the “sky fairy myth” which no theist actually believes.
I can assert with confidence that I have heard EVERYTHING the philosophy of atheism has to offer. There is nothing in atheism that qualifies as “food for thought”.
I don’t see the point in wallowing in incoherence.
Do you think that conversing them and showing their insanity to people on the fence is productive?
Sure!
That’s why I’ll always ask, “What do you mean by ‘God’?” Their refusal to answer should demonstrate their foolishness.
“That’s why I’ll always ask, “What do you mean by ‘God’?” Their refusal to answer should demonstrate their foolishness.”
okay, JB, what do *you* mean by “God”?
What I mean by “God” is the deity that Christians claim to worship. What I note is that Christians don’t agree on what this god is or what it wants.
And how is atheism a “belief” like Christianity, for instance?
I do believe that there are no gods so yep, the conclusion of atheism is true. And funny how plenty of Christians believe in miracles and atheists ask for one of those.
It does get hard to claim you ask questions and get no answers when atheists do answer you.
You’ve demonstrated why I’m bored with atheists.
Kicking my question back at me is tedious and dull. I thank you for proving my point.
“You’ve demonstrated why I’m bored with atheists.
Kicking my question back at me is tedious and dull. I thank you for proving my point.” – JB
poor fox, just can’t get those grapes so you invent your whines and excuses.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep being perfectly okay.
“Ladies first.” – Jack
Poor Jack, hiding behind supposed politeness to avoid defining what he claims to worship. How wonderfuly typical to see a frightened Christian do this.
You can’t, can you, Jack? Just like JB can’t and every other christian here can’t.
I do love how Christians can’t answer a Christian’s question “That’s why I’ll always ask, “What do you mean by ‘God’?” Their refusal to answer should demonstrate their foolishness.”
“But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.” – Matt 5
😉
By God, I mean the entity described in the bible. What do you think God is?
“By God, I mean the entity described in the bible.”
So…
You do not believe in the God that is responsible for the creation of all physical reality. Then that would, according to the bible, make you a fool.
😉
That’s fair. If they can’t define that, the argument isn’t going to be productive.
Define “God”, Jack.
Ladies first.
““By God, I mean the entity described in the bible.”
So…
You do not believe in the God that is responsible for the creation of all physical reality. Then that would, according to the bible, make you a fool.
😉”
ROFL. Thanks, JB, for declaring that the bible god isn’t the creator of all physical reality even though your bible says that your god is. Romans 1, eh? Hmmm. It’s great to see you then try to quote the bible as an authority. You can’t even show evidence of this god that “is responsible for the creation of all physical reality” and funny how most, if not all religions make the same exact claims about their god/gods.
Yep, why, JB must worship Islam’s god since Muslims declare “Every point in the universe is filled with matchless manifestations of Allah’s creative artistry. Everywhere we look at reflects His infinite might and greatness. All the delicate structures and balances on Earth and all the countless physical and cosmic laws that pervade it, the Milky Way, the Solar System, the light emitted by the Sun, the rate of expansion of the universe, the level of viscosity of water, Earth’s position in the Milky Way, the distance between the Earth and Moon, the proportions of gasses in the atmosphere and countless other such physical data, together with entities such as the seas, the oceans, the mountains, butterflies, squirrels, deer, tigers, cats and countless others all clearly reveal the existence of our Sublime and Almighty Lord.” https://www.arabnews.com/news/575306
So you aren’t a Christian at all are you? People who might hire you would be overjoyed to hear this.
Feel free to tell all the “people who might hire me” that I’m not a Christian. That would be an excellent ministry for a person like you!
“Feel free to tell all the “people who might hire me” that I’m not a Christian. That would be an excellent ministry for a person like you!” – JB
no need, you’ve done so well here.
Everyone believes I’m a Christian. They lack your insight. They need you to reveal the subjective truth!
“Everyone believes I’m a Christian. They lack your insight. They need you to reveal the subjective truth! ” – JB
No evidence of this either. It seems that it rather odd for a Christian to claim that the god described in the bible isn’t his god. Tsk.
And shucks, here we go again with poor JB ending up in solipsism and ignoring what I’ve said so his delusions can go on.
According to you, there’s no evidence for anything I say. My whole life is a delusion.
Please tell me I exist, Vel!
“According to you, there’s no evidence for anything I say. My whole life is a delusion.
Please tell me I exist, Vel!” – JB
Oh trying so hard. hopefully you do know that you can exist and there not be any evidence for the things you say. Do you think Muslims exist, JB?
I don’t know if Muslims exist. You’ll have to tell me.
“I don’t know if Muslims exist. You’ll have to tell me.” – JB
Poor thing, addled as ever. My condolences, Amanda.
You don’t know either?
Who has evidence that Muslims exist!?
Our great and powerful leader Club will tell us all the answers in due time. Have a little faith John.
“You don’t know either?
Who has evidence that Muslims exist!? ” – JB
Oh I do know that Muslims exist. Thanks, JB, for showing that you aren’t a Christians since you don’t believe in the god described in the bible and all you have is little more than solipsism.
I’m sure you do think you are being funny. So much for the best a “Christian Comedian” has to offer, eh?
“Our great and powerful leader Club will tell us all the answers in due time. Have a little faith John.” – Jack
and Jack still won’t define his god out of fear. Such a shame. I do wonder what his school friends would say if they asked him to define his god and he tried so hard to find an excuse not to.
“Jack still won’t define his god out of fear. Such a shame.”
Jack defined God.
You’re a liar.
Club, I did define God you’re just ignoring it because you have no rebuke.
““Jack still won’t define his god out of fear. Such a shame.”
Jack defined God.
You’re a liar.”
Nope. Jack defined god and didn’t bother to let me know. He started a new thread which I didn’t see since i only reply to posts to me.
now why would he have done that, JB?
“Atheists do believe in God their “lack of belief” is their god.” – Jack
No, we dont’. But nice try to lie about people Jack. Do you think your bible’s admonition not to lie and bear false witness doesn’t apply to you?