Ah, Christmas!
The most wonderful time of year.
The season of warm wishes, good friends, twinkling trees…
…and guilty consciences.
The proper observation of Christmas should fill us with equal parts eggnog and anxiety.
Generally, our holiday traditions do a good job of making us feel bad.
- Receive a gift from someone whom you didn’t get a gift for. (Check!)
- Never send a single Christmas card. (Check!)
- Don’t visit all relatives for an equal amount of time. (Check!)
- Forgot to buy batteries. (Check!)
- Lied to your aunt that you ‘really love’ the sweater she knit you. (Check!)
- Tell a child that Santa is not real (Check!)
- Tell a child that Santa is real. (Check!)
- Packages look like you wore oven mitts when you wrapped them. (Check!)
- Gain weight. (Check!)
And the list goes on.
As well it should!
The reason for the season…is guilt.
Too often, the story of Jesus birth obscures the true meaning of Christmas.
Angels and shepherds and mangers are so distracting!
Nativity scenes aren’t really what’s important about Christmas.
You can’t find the significance of Jesus birth in the book of Luke.
It’s found elsewhere:
“You that are Israelites, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with deeds of power, wonders, and signs that God did through him among you, as you yourselves know— this man, handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law… Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?” – Acts 2:22
That last part is the essence of Christmas.
“…they were cut to the heart…”
They felt guilty.
…actually, that’s sort of an understatement.
They had killed God’s messiah.
Horrified might be better.
Horror is what happens when all hope is lost.
Christmas is a horror story!
Peering into the manger we behold the sleeping Christ child.
The reason he’s lying there is our wickedness.
If we had our act together, we wouldn’t need a savior.
You want to argue with me?
Go ahead and tell me don’t feel guilty about anything.
Tell me your conscience is clean!
Tell me there is nothing shameful about you.
You’re worse than Scrooge.
(You’re probably worse than the Grinch too.)
At least Scrooge understood that his fate was deserved.
Like the Jews in Acts, he saw his pending doom.
Scrooge was overcome by the blessed guilt of Christmas.
In the darkness of sin, the God’s light shines brightest.
Until you see the horror in your world…
…you won’t understand the Christmas ‘Joy to the World’.
175 Responses
1) Yes. I’m referring to Yahweh: a name which translated to English is LORD (note the all caps. He (not it) is THE Lord of all) or I AM.
2) 2 Corinthians 5:19-20 says, “that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.” What I failed to explain in my previous statement (and for that I apologize) is the issue of reconciliation. Reconciliation has two parts: God and us. What the cross does for God is make it possible for Him to be both justice and justifier. Thus, He can be perfectly just and also perfectly loving. He has condemned us with His law while saving us with His Son. Through Jesus, God is reconciled to us. What the cross does for us is allow us to be forgiven. Because the Jesus’ sacrifice, God can and does say, all of your sins are forgiven. the cross does not, however, reconcile us to God. You can still hate God even after being forgiven. It is because of God’s perfection paired with His sacrifice that all are forgiven.
3) if you are not reconciled to God, you cannot be with Him. That is the situation of all non-believers. Those who still hate God (those who are not reconciled to Him) cannot be in heaven with Him. Thus they go to hell. It is not loving for God to never send people to hell any more than it is loving for a parent to never discipline their children or a judge to never jail a crook.
I know that this is a tough concept to understand; I confess that I don’t completely understand it myself. Keep in mind that God has infinite understanding and knowledge and there are things in this world that you and I cannot comprehend. I hope that this was at least somewhat helpful. Thank you for responding!
Carol Meyers.
This is where the indoctrination of the Christian fundamentalist begins to show its true colours.
This almost pathological refusal to accept truth even when it is laid out before you.
No one is saying there is ”total agreement”. No one. There are bound to be discrepancies. We are all human, after all.
There is however a consensus among archaeologists, scholars and historians regarding the major aspects of the history of the Jews/Israelites and how they emerged, based on evidence.
The two crucial aspects of their history, as John has pointed out, which are relevant to to the Christian religion are:.
1.They emerged from within Canaan and the Canaanite tribes.
2.There was no Exodus or conquest as recorded in the bible.
So, yes, Branyan you can pick whatever version of history you like.
And this fact is glaringly evident in the way you present arguments and build your fundamentalist Christian worldview.
But the biblical tale is fiction. Maybe if you repeat that last sentence enough it might begin to sink in and you might start broadening your horizons?
You can dish out your churlish one liners in an attempt to surreptitiously discredit the secular scientific community and the likes of John, Kia and I ’til the cows come home.
However, whether you like it or not, all you are actually doing is conning yourself and perpetrating fraud.
It is already effecting Christianity, albeit slower than one might wish for, by revealing it to be erroneous.
It is going to happen. It is merely a question of time.
Eventually all the nonsense about sin and salvation and some 1st century Rabbi will be relegated to the annals of not-so-quaint historical fiction.
One you realise this you then might want to consider Islam,and from the looks of things, you might relish an atheist in your corner.
It would be nice if you accept the reality sooner rather than later.
I feel pretty sure your grandkids would be happier too.
This is where the indoctrination of the Atheist fundamentalist begins to show its true colours.
All your jib-jab has yet to yield a germane comment on the subject of sin, shame or guilt. You’ve offered nothing relevant.
That is the reality. Even my grandkids know a phony when they see one.
*Smile*
I mentioned sin and salvation in the comment – if you care to read it properly.
It is all tied in with your shame / guilt trip.
As I have said before, people are not perfect. Sometimes their behavior crosses a line, even if they might not be aware if it.
Get over it, Branyan. Don’t be a Dick. If you are alerted to the fact,apologise, make amends if you can, and move along.
Whine all you like, but Jesus of Nazareth is not going to come and wipe your tears and blow your nose.
Every single thing I have ever posted on your blog is Germane.
Your entire Christian worldview is built upon a foundation of erroneous nonsense, thus anything that points this out is germane.
Phony?
Hilarious.
And this from the person who revels in obfuscation and accuses me of ad hominum.
Address the issue and let’s see where your beliefs really go.
And you might want to explain what you believe is personally at stake for you NOT believing in the character Jesus of Nazareth.
Hi! I confess that I did not read all of the comments (there are so many) and have never posted on a blog before, but I did not see an explanation for the crucifixion that Arkenaten asked about on December 4 and if this is repeating anything that was previously said, I apologize for wasting anyone’s time.
How Jesus’ death on the cross allows forgiveness is a long story, but I will make it as short as I can. When we sin, God, who is perfect and just, requires justice (or payment if you will). However, God is also a loving God. The death that Jesus died is what we (sinners) deserve. As a perfect man, Jesus’ death was, for Himself, unnecessary. As such, His payment can be given to others: you and me. Now that He has been crucified, our debt has been paid by Him and God no longer requires payment for us. We are free from our debt, forgiven because the price has been paid.
I doubt that that is the best way to explain it, but it is all that I have to offer (I am not as old/wise as all (or probably ANY) of you, and don’t have much life experience). I apologize again if this wasted anyone’s time, but if someone didn’t know, I think it’s important that they learn. Merry Christmas!
Thanks for replying. Couple of questions, if I may.
1. Are you referring to Yahweh?
2. If this god is perfect, could it not simply say I forgive you? After all, non believers are already doomed to be tortured for eternity in Hell, according to certain Christian doctrine.
3. If your god is a loving god why does he send non believers to Hell?
Just got to comment on this piece of nonsense.
Windbag!!
I was worried that something had happened to you!
You should get in touch with William G. Dever and tell him you have figured out the precise timing for the Exodus! Seriously, he’ll be thrilled to know that you have succeeded where he and his fellow scholars have failed!
The reign of King Solomon began 970 BC.
Now, let us read a passage in 1 Kings.
Thus, according to 1 Kings 6:1, the fourth year of the reign of Solomon (which would be 966 BCE) came 480 years after when the Israelite’s came out of the land of Egypt.
So, when did the Exodus begin? We merely add 480 (representing # of years) to 966 (966 was again, the fourth year of Solomon’s reign), and get a date for the start of the exodus at 1466 BC.
Or are you saying the bible is utterly wrong in every regard?
That was fast! What did William G. Dever have to say? (I’m sure it was “Thank you, John Zande!”)
Dever, “Who Were the Israelites and Where Did They Come From?”
Google is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
Yeah.
So?
There are Christians whose entire lives would fall apart if they knew the dates in the Bible are probably not literal.
But I’m not one of them.
The 480 year number is probably not precise. OT writers tended to use numbers symbolically. It’s believed the 480 year incremental counting was used to place the building of the temple at the center of Jewish history. Many scholars put the Exodus later than 1500 BC.
But there isn’t total agreement. As I told Ark, the Jews arrived in Canaan somehow. Feel free to pick whatever version of history you like.
Rabbi Sherwin T. Wine (A Provocative People)
Google is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
It is… so too is purchasing actual books and reading them.
Isn’t it remarkable that the priest, Hilkiah, miraculously found the “ancient” books of the Torah (the scroll of the law, the Sefer Torah) hidden in a wall, telling this fantastic tale how his Kingdom, Judah, was in fact the center of the Jewish world precisely at the time when Israel had been sacked?
Amazing coincidence, isn’t it?
Astonishing!
Now, when it comes to this subject, you bore me to tears, John Branyan.
Sorry, but there’s no point conversing with the wilfully ignorant
If you’re bored that makes us even!
Thanks to Google, I learned that William G. Dever and I share a birthday! Just a few years apart… 😉
Do you hear that, JB? If you concede the error in 1 Kings 6:1, you’re admitting your collection of 66 sources is utterly wrong in every regard. That’s why you will never find even one error made by any of JZ’s resources in any area; otherwise we’d have to discredit them all as utterly wrong in every regard. (Even if that were to happen, we’ve always got his infallible enlightened self-interest to fall back on.) Ugh, being right all the time with no one who listens must be so boring. I’m not willfully ignorant, JZ! I hope I’m alleviating your boredom by blindly accepting your teaching!
The shame of it is that JZ hasn’t written a single word on his blog since June.
It’s got to be hard on a guy like you to be itching for JZ’s wisdom and go so long without a scratch.
Oh, I don’t need teachings on facts or anything like that. Enlightened self-interest can override those any day, so they’re not stable. The true artistry I envy is the ability to remain unfazed while circumventing things like logic and reason which JZ has transcended. Requiring no external source of wisdom, only accepting verbatim from others while allowing himself to interpret anything to his liking, and understanding that the differences between “finding” and “being” are a meaningless distinction are only a few of his desirable traits. That last one is the most original and revolutionary way of thinking he has shown me yet. I have found John Zande, therefore I AM John Zande. This thought reduces my suffering and gives me the neurological stimulations you mislabel as hope.
Ark claims that deconverts from Christianity have unanswered questions. I would argue that Atheism results in MORE unanswered questions, and fewer answers. As a worldview, it’s way, way, way too simple to be taken seriously.
For more reading, you can peruse this old thread: https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/10/29/nothing-new-here/comment-page-1/#comment-8049
And another thread, in which I explain to Ark that his idea of who God is (and how to disprove him) is too small.
https://branyancomedy.wordpress.com/2016/10/04/christians-are-learning-disabled/comment-page-1/#comment-6498
All I wanted to know is: IF “Christianity was designed”…. by whom was it designed? But I guess KIA bowed out long ago.
He offers approximately the same amount of useful information after he bows out as when he’s fully engaged.
Wow. Seems I’ve missed quite a bit of whining from the Chimp. And he pretends to not know it was The Crimson Quarter Wit under his skin (figuratively only).
It’s easy to get under Sir Arks-a-Lot’s skin. So easy a chimp can do it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ckinspFk2iI
Btw Chimp. Just playing the same game you do … nothing more … nothing less. It’s no different than you saying that Wally may have sociopathic tendencies OR the many times you’ve said that Sweet Cheeks should seek professional help, that she shouldn’t be raising children, etc. You can dish it out – but you obviously can’t take it. WEAKLING!!!
You in fact have posted photographs you’ve taken of school children. You in fact have posted photographs you’ve taken of black female police officers walking away from you.
I’m not saying that you enjoy photographing those subjects while hidden away. I’m just saying that maybe you do AND that it does in fact come across as creepy.
I’m not saying you in fact eat children. I’m not saying you in fact are Hannibal Lector. Just saying that maybe you are.
Anyway – it’s easy to recognize a chimp throwing crap. I’m just tossing it back to its rightful owner.
We have tried to converse with you in the past. Our questions that you are unable to answer are deemed “unacceptable” by you.
Conversely – you are not really interested in any answers to questions that you pose to any of us. You’ve got your rebuttals lined up in advance just waiting for someone to take the bait.
There were some that did not believe in Christ despite seeing him following his resurrection? You possibly would have fallen into the same category had you been there. You are not here seeking truth. So I’m keeping the pearls.
Lastly – soccer sucks!
Gee whiz! That last line cuts deepest. Soccer is great for when you’re having trouble sleeping and there’s no golf on television.
I told Sweet Cheeks you’d show up this evening and unload on the Chimp. I’d guessed you’ve been busy today wishing you had a decent tambourine player in your band, right?
You see we heard from Pastor Mike as well? He stopped in to remind us of his irrelevance. He’s learned so much about how much he used to think he knew before he got really smart but of course, that’s none of our business…Have A Great Day! I wonder how he types without a central nervous system.
It’s enough to almost make me miss Tildeb’s reality. If we’re lucky, JZ will show up and blow all this unpleasantness away with his gale force stupidity.
This is a good place to quote the original post to remind people what we’re talking about, right?
“Christmas is a horror story! Peering into the manger we behold the sleeping Christ child. The reason he’s lying there is our wickedness. If we had our act together, we wouldn’t need a savior.”
mrsmcmommy,
Yeah, when Jesus came on the scene, JB said (no, not your Dad, but the *other* JB… John the Baptist) “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” (John 1:29)
It seems that every time Jesus makes a first appearance, we are reminded why He came.
In the Christmas story in Matthew, when Joseph gets the news, the angel tells him not to divorce Mary, and that he should call the child Jesus (Joshua – which means “God is salvation”) because He would save people from their sins.
And when Jesus enter Jerusalem, the people call out “Hosanna to the Son of David, Hosanna in the highest.” The word “hosanna” is the Hebrew word hoshana, which means “save us”. It was used to call to praise for a Savior, even if the crowds did not fully understand what they were yelling.
And, to continue on the horror story theme, they yelled hoshana, and then within days changed their cry to “Crucify Him”.
All, as the original post points us, to our sinfulness and shame and wickedness and need of a Savior.
Dave
Zechariah 12:10 (ESV) – “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
John 19:35-38 (ESV) – He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.” And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”
Pre xmas pressie for you….
https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA
“…because we have a talent for deceiving ourselves, subjectivity may not freely reign.”
That includes you and Carl Sagan!
“Its conclusion derived from the interrogation of nature and are not in all cases predesigned to satisfy our wants.”
Great stuff!
None of this is germane to the topic but I understand you’re doing the best you can with your YouTube intellectualism.
Do you want to tell me how you understand the existence of guilt and shame?
I am not a re-booted Christian, do not believe in your made-up biblical characters, so I am perfectly happy in this regard, thanks all the same. our concern is touching. But then, most people who have rad your meanderings generally consider your are a bit touched.
Anything I post that demonstrates the fallacious natures of your fundamentalist religious fueled posts is germane, Branyan, and certainly anything Sagan had to say on the matter well and truly piddles on your bonfire.
And It’s nice to see you actually listened to the video!
I’ll grant you a point for that! Well done.
Maybe one day you will learn to understand?
Right.
Shame and guilt, how do you deal with these things?
Maybe you should direct this question to who ever wrote that rather unsavoury comment regarding photographing schoolkids and the backsides of police officers?
It would seem that the dumb-fuck who wrote that particular comment should feel seriously ashamed of themselves.
That you seem to tacitly concur with the sentiments might cause some of your more genuine christian readers to question your judgment in this regard?
Of course I a m not talking about the tiny hard core of faux-Christians that regularly comment but some of those thousands upon thousands who have apparently signed up to your blog.
I realise it’s a long shot that you might actually make a genuine response, but then, who knows, ’tis the season of goodwill after all?
Hey, Branyan.
I’m trying to give you a chance to contribute.
If anyone feels guilty about their behavior, they can seek forgiveness because Jesus was punished for that behavior.
That’s how Christianity works.
Have you ever felt guilty about anything?
How did the supposed brutal Crucifixion of a biblical character named Jesus in any way enable forgiveness?
Can you explain?
And I take it you do concur with the remarks from the commenter pertaining to a photograph of school kids and female cops?
You never fail to disappoint, Branyan.
Nope. That’s not an answer.
Have you ever felt guilty about anything?
As you are suggesting that the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth had to be crucified in able for humanity to be forgiven I think it is important that you explain why.
While you are formulating an answer will try to think of something I feel guilty about.
No. I’m not explaining things to you. You’re supposed to explain your enlightened point of view to me.
If you’ve never felt guilty about anything, then how can you tell someone else they should feel guilty?
I think the term I used was shame, Branyan.
Go read the comment.
Harbouring guilt is a destructive emotion.I don’t entertain it.
Yet you suggested that someone ought to feel guilty for how they talked about you.
What makes you feel shame?
Again, I used the word ashamed.
Read it again Branyan.
Answer the question.
Sure I will . Just explain the whole forgiveness- sin thing regarding your man god and the brutal death he was obliged to suffer just because you have certain issues.
And are you going to call out the person who made that unsavoury comment regarding photographing schoolkids?
It’s too bad Carl Sagan didn’t make a video about shame. That would help you feign relevance.
Does anything make you feel ashamed?
Why are you interested?
Just call me a name and we’ll be done for today.
So, you have no shame for the commenter who wrote such an unsavory comment regarding taking photographs of schoolchildren.
I get it.
Now that you have been reminded of it, and as you did not even bat an eyelid or display an ounce of shame that your christian followers would stoop to such filth, no doubt you have no guilty feelings either and will not be asking the character Jesus for forgiveness tonight.
You’re a Peach, Johnny boy!
Jesus would be so proud….
Tell me do you also think it is unsavoury that the biblical character Jesus of Nazareth is also purpotred to have said
”Suffer little children to come unto me” and all those drawings/pictures of Jof N with little kiddies on his knee etc?
Yuck right?
Right. I feel no shame on behalf of other commenters.
Your outrage is whimsical though. Appealing to Christians to behave more like Christians is pretty funny! It appears, from your perspective, only Christians can behave shamefully. It’s got be terribly embarrassing that you must make use of the religion you loath to make an argument. You’ve even brought Jesus in on your behalf!
Please.
Just call me names and call it a day. You have nothing to offer philosophically.
There we go.
The hypocrite shows his true colours.
Have a nice day!
There we go.
Arkenaten shows he doesn’t know the definition of hypocrite.
Have a nice day!
Really? So you concur with the sentiments expressed by whoever wrote that comment.
It wasn’t you by chance was it, Branyan? You weren’t using one of your several alternative Blogging Alter egos?
I don’t know which sentiments you’re referring to. It’s entirely possible that you’re off your meds today just sharing a hallucination.
I don’t have any alter egos.
You should form a few alter egos though since the ‘Arkenaten’ moniker has been thoroughly discredited.
You concur with the sentiments expressed by your commenter/yourself about taking photos of schoolkids and female cops?
How has the Ark moniker been discredited?
Which sentiments?
The Ark moniker has a poor record of making relevant comments. I’d ditch it and come in fresh with an alias that we don’t recognize as a joke.
Anything that points out the erroneous basis upon which your Christian worldview is built is relevant.
The same sentiments I mentioned at the outset.
The ones you obviously agree with.
You’ve never pointed out any errors with my Christian worldview. You just toss ad hominem around and think you’re expressing wisdom.
It’s obviously time for your meds, Ark. Get your lithium levels settled and then maybe you’ll be able to tell me what comments have you in such a tizzy.
Oh, dear Branyan, are you so insecure that once again, now your position has been show to have more holes that a Galilean Fisherman’s net you have to do the whole Theocratic two step and simply try to deflect as usual?
Your post is about shame and guilt yet you obviously feel none over the disgraceful comment made about photographing schoolkids and female police officers.
You want to know about any guilt or shame I may have yet you demonstrate none of the above for the comment that you allowed/or made yourself and you cannot even explain what the Christian doctrine of the Crucifiction is about.
My position has been shown to have no holes. Again, you’ve yet to raise a solitary objection to the Christian faith. It is you, not I, who are deflecting. I’ve repeatedly asked for your views regarding shame.
Explain why I should feel shame for something that someone else said?
I was under the impression that honesty was an integral part of the Christian faith?
Thou shall not bear false witness etc.
Writing that comment or allowing it go unchallenged suggests you concur with what was written, even if only tacitly.
Couple this with your obvious lack of understanding and inability to explain why, according to your religion, the character Jesus of Nazareth ”had ” to be crucified makes the theme of the post all the more ironic.
So I should be honest because I’m a Christian. Got it.
You’re not a Christian. Why should you be honest?
Obviously this does not follow as evidenced by your religion which is built on a foundation of demonstrable falsehood.
However, there is the implicit rider that you should at least try to be honest.
No, I am not a Christian – thank the gods for that – and I explained what I consider a major reason for honesty and not lying to Wally.
Maybe you should read the comment?
And, just to clear this up.
Do you agree with the sentiments alluded to in the comment regarding taking photos of schoolkids and the backsides of female police officers?
And second, can you please explain the theological reason/meaning behind the brutal crucifixion of the character Jesus of Nazareth.
Lol.
CQW–you REALLY got under Ark’s skin when you suggested he is a creepy old man who takes pictures of people without their knowledge… The truth hurts, as they say.
It really bugs him when Christians act like atheists too.
Seriously–if someone I didn’t know took out their camera and pointed it at my kids in public, without asking me, I might say some pretty unchristian things…
Yep.
It’s too bad for Ark that there isn’t an atheist handbook for creepiness that he can reference.
I hope he references the dictionary again! That would make my night!
Not in the least, Amanda. If that was the case then practically every single photographer would be suspect. Including you for taking photographs of your own kids. Presuming you have taken a few?
That you can sit there and even think such thoughts says more about you than you possibly realise.
And believe me, that makes you very creepy indeed.
As this post is about shame, maybe you might feel a tinge if you had to explain your very creepy thoughts and attitudes to your own children?
People see me taking pictures of my kids at the park and they smile. People see strange old men taking pictures of SOMEONE ELSE’S kids at the park, and they call the cops.
I don’t know what it’s like in SA.
But you’re the definition of creepy here.
Tell me, do you hold up a big sign alerting everyone not to fret as ”These Kids Are Mine”?
or ”Don’t worry, He’s My Dad. He Can Take Pictures, It’s Okay.”
I haven’t yet been to the park to take photographs of anyone.
Many of our parks are not that comfortable to wander around with expensive photographic equipment on display
However,when I do I shall post them and alert you straight away.
Anything in particular you would like to see?
And again, whatever is going through your mind clearly illustrates a level of depravity that you should really feel shame over.
That you think this is just great fun is even more worrisome and suggests a degree of emotional instability that has me wondering if you are simply not projecting for some reason?
As I mentioned, there are thousand of street photographers across the globe.
A great many of them specialize in taking photographs of children at play or simply walking around just being themselves as they are often excellent subjects to photograph.
I really believe you should re-read your father’s post and reflect on just how rather vile your behavior has been.
Whatever you say, Ark. If YOU think I ought to feel shame, then by golly, I better. HAHAHA!
It’s just a chemical, right? So do they make a pill for that?
Can I got to the pharmacist and say, “I get a creepy feeling whenever wrinkly old guys snap photos of my kids and share it with others online,” will he hand me a bottle of drugs?
Better Human Pills. I’ll look for those next time I’m out. LOL!!!!! You Naturalists are hilarious. Especially the creepy ones.
Again, Amanda, please read your dad’s post.
And in all truth you really do sound as if you are projecting.
It does seem to be a characteristic of many re-born christian fundamentalists.
It seems to be way of hiding for some reason.
Did you watch the Sagan video, by the way?
You should.
If you have a problem with old guys look to your own old man.
I would put money that he might well be older than I am or very close.
I’ve seen the Sagan video multiple times before. I regularly read and watch things that come from outside my worldview. (Unlike you.)
You have been asked to answer a question about where shame comes from and how a good Atheist handles it. But, (as always) you have failed.
But, please keep commenting… You never seem to recognize when you’ve been buried, so why stop now?
You truly are a barrel of laughs.
I image there are a great many non believers who have watched that rather disturbing video of David Wood. You know, the guy you seem to drool over as the perfect example of reformed Christianity.
I am sure there are a great many non believers who watch Ken Ham make a dick of himself arguing for his ark and creation etc against Bill Nye.
There are a huge amount of non believers who have seen and watched Christopher Kitchens regularly take to pieces the garbage of the Catholic Church in particular and Christianity in general.
So yes, MrsMc, I like many non believers are reasonably up to date on the state of religious fundamentalism.
I have been asked where shame comes from?
Really?
Person 1: “See that guy over there taking pictures of those kids?”
Person 2: “It’s okay he’s probably just their dad.”
Person 1: “Actually, I’m worried he’s one of those CHRISTIANS!!!!!”
Person 2″ “Yikes–you’re right. What a freak!”
Careful, Ark! Nobody knows what you believe when you’re driving around in your car! For all they know, you’re a Catholic priest, adding to your collection! I’m just telling you, sometimes mothers have a right to worry about wrinkly white guys who take pictures of their kids… LOL!
Have a nice day!
Thanks! I plan on it! 🙂
Ark asked:
The three kids who have my red hair and call me ‘mom?’ No, I don’t usually “alert” people that they’re mine.
…But a wrinkly-skinned white guy, snapping this picture from his car???
HAHAHAHAHA!
I can just hear it now: “Hey, why is that guy taking pictures of those kids headed to school?”
Person #2: “Oh, don’t worry. He’s probably just their dad.”
*snort*
Without a doubt you are definitely the creepiest and by all accounts most disturbed person I have ever interacted with on the internet.
I imagine someone like Mike shudders every time he recollects the days when he was indoctrinated like you, but even then , although he might well have been quite obnoxious regarding his religious fervor and proselytizing I just cannot imagine he was ever like you.
I wonder if your therapist goes home
a worried person or your neighbours.
are obliged to keep a very close eye on their pet rabbits.
No. I’m not going to re-read your comments. You haven’t explained anything anywhere at any time today.
Bottom line, since I’m tired of waiting for you to say it, there is no reason to feel shame from an atheist point of view. There is no such thing as evil from an atheist point of view.
Are you talking about CQW’s comments on another blog post? If you are, then yes, I concur with all those sentiments. You ought to be ashamed of yourself but since you’re not a Christian you don’t even know what shame is!
And as I just commented to your daughter … this makes you rather creepy.
And we can take it that you have no real idea why the character Jesus of Nazareth was crucified for, other than sedition?
Got it.
I did suggest you change the title of this blog. You really are not funny at all, Branyan.
In fact, the more posts you write the more you come across as needing professional psychological help.
The creepy photographer is calling me creepy? That’s hilarious!
Are you accusing me of not being Christian enough for you? Is that the problem? I should be a better Christian?
Jesus died on the cross for my creepiness. It’s gone. What are you doing to do to get rid of yours?
I must congratulate you, Branyan as you never cease to demonstrate how you are the complete antithesis of everything you claim your religion is supposed to represent.
I have encountered any number of fringe Fundamentalists, and some are real whack jobs when it comes to interpreting their own very personal view of your religion.
But you and your daughter are a pair apart; something quite special, and make no mistake.
And yes, believe me, you truly are quite creepy, Branyan.
Yes! Yes!
I’m a deranged, unstable, creep! That’s why the Gospel is such a great deal for me. Jesus takes the blame for my creepiness!
Again…how do you deal with yours, Ark?
I suspect, like your daughter, you are simply projecting, Branyan.
Odd how you now even feel the need to write asinine comments about your own religious text and the character J of N.
Exactly! There’s nothing you can do about your creepiness. It will stay with you for the rest of your life!
I’m not projecting. You are.
I don’t blame you though. It beats facing the truth of your wretchedness.
Seriously, get help, Branyan…. for your kids sake if not for your own.
Already got it! Jesus.
How are you going to help yourself?
Are you serious?
Muslims say similar things about Allah and Mohammed.
So who’s correct and why should I accept your word?
But, hey, don’t take my word for how much you need proper help. Ask a deconvert. Try Neil Carter for example.
Reality has not helped you with your creepiness and shame, remember?
You’re switching tracks. Did you take your meds today?
I recognize your speech patterns because my father is also mentally ill. I provide daily care because he doesn’t function at the same level that you do. Every once in awhile he calls me up to ask me the time. He has a giant, digital clock on the wall in front of him. I ask him why he doesn’t look at the clock and he replies, “That clock is wrong!”
That’s what you do, Ark! You don’t believe the clock!
Now, to prove your point, you’re sending me to counsel with someone else who can’t tell time!
Reality isn’t working in your favor.
You are an absolute peach, Branyan.
Not being completely au fait with US Xian Fundies, even after several years blogging, I am still not wholly convinced that you are not simply taking the piss.
However, I am assured by several deconverts who have kindly read some of your posts, that you sound on the level and pretty much par for the course for the more severe US style christian, even if you couch your terms in your own special brand of delivery.
I guess, therefore I accept their judgment.
What I find weird and difficult to get my head around is that you feel the desperate need to blog about guilt and shame, for some unknown reason, and believe you can assuage whatever guilt trip you have been on by believing a make believe god man found between the covers of one of the most vile heinous books ever compiled is your ticket to the good times after you kick the bucket!
I mean, on the one hand you sound like an intelligent bloke, but to actually believe the stuff you do…?
Just out there.
Truly I adjure you to read some of the more serious blogs of former fundamentalist believers.
I mentioned Neil Carter.
There are also a number who were full- on professional pastors for years, who obviously have a much greater depth of knowledge of theology than you (or I) ever likely will and yet they still kicked it in to touch.
There are reasons for such organisations as the Clergy Project. Very good reasons indeed.
They do not just spring up in a vacuum.
These folk fully understand exactly the trip you are on.
They know all about the guilt and the shame that is all part and parcel of indoctrination and maintaining a subservient flock.
So , in the end your obfuscation and flowery rhetoric doesn’t cut it, Branyan.
Certainly not with me, as I never rode on the bus you’re on, so it is simply water of a duck’s back.
I only began reading about Christianity after requiring some background info on a satirical piece I was writing about Moses.
At that stage even I thought he was a real historical character!
That’s how ignorant I was.
Now I know better.
Yet, to this day,whenever I read a Christian fundamentalist blog I still have to take a breath and blink a couple of times that I really am reading the words on the screen.
And if your words were read by a million deconverts everyone would likely nod their heads and say:
”Been there done that…”
Believe it or not, it would be amazing to read you had ditched this crap.
And although you won’t likely accept my word, there are one or two bloggers who were Christian through and through who began seriously examining their belief after giving me as much shit as you do.
We laugh about it now. One even sent me a copy of a book he wrote and extended an invite to his home in Carolina! A raving fundamentalist gets reality and invites me to stay at his spot!
Wow!
Maybe there’s hope for you yet, Branyan.
I would be the first to express my congratulations and even ask that there were no hard feelings.
I’ve given you shit?!! Did you forget where you are?
Doubling down on the deconvert testimonies doesn’t make them more legitimate. I fully grasp the atheist position. It is void. Utterly useless. More useless testimony is not going to change my mind.
If you were to actually offer an alternative viewpoint we would have a discussion. You don’t do that. You just keep insisting that my clock is wrong.
Shame and guilt are real issues that affect real people. You’ve offered NOTHING helpful. I’ve offered the Gospel which solves the problem entirely.
There is hope for you as well, Ark. But your salvation is not coming from Neil Carter.
*Smile*
And …there we go. exactly what is expected of every indoctrinated fundamentalist.
True to form; as if you were likely to behave /respond differently in an open forum where all you mates-and especially your daughter can read your response.
My mate,Luke, from Carolina, was the same.
Then one day I received an email and the change began …
I smiled.
Hilarious! Neil Carter would be horrified if I wrote him asking for salvation!
Tell me honestly. Are you really that scared of reading the testimonies of such people?
Do you never wonder why your religion is on an inexorable path to absolute obscurity and eventual oblivion?
Look what the Pope said the other day about forgiving those who have procured an abortion!
The Pope.
If the Church can change what chance do you truly believe the minnows like you have of hanging on to this ”relationship?”
Honestly, Branyan, think laterally for a few moments.
Compare today with the religious environment 100 years ago.
It hasn’t got a chance in Hades against modern technology, archareology and science.
People can and do feel bad about themselves for various reasons.
The difference is, you believe that the make believe man on the cross has all the answers.
Sorry my mate. That just ain’t so.
I’m not scared of anyone’s testimony.
Let’s prove it! I’ll go toe-to-toe with your testimony.
“Compare today with the religious environment 100 years ago.
It hasn’t got a chance in Hades against modern technology, archareology and science.”
Which modern technology, archaeology or science should I consider as sufficient reason to embrace atheism?
I am not a deconvert, remember?
If you want to argue the religious aspects you need to discuss this with a former fellow fundamentalist who once had the same mindset as you display every time you blog.
Such people have been almost exactly where you are now.
This was why I made the point about you reading the testimony of deconverts.
It is also why I brought up the conversion of my friend, Luke in Carolina.
I certainly didn’t deconvert him; Hell no! He had little but sarc for me … just like you in fact. No, his deconversion took a lot of serious study and dialogue with former fundamentalists and then some.
All I did was raise one or two issues he had never considered before and I only raised them because I had studied them as well. Before this I had no clue of such things as the HGP or the archaeology of the Exodus.
However, in the interim,as you never cease to try to convince me of how wonderful your god belief seems, how about the archaeology that completely refutes the Exodus and the Flood?
There is no archaeology that refutes the Exodus and the Flood.
What other science do you have that will compel me toward atheism?
Yes, there is.
You obviously haven’t studied and your recalcitrant response is clear evidence of your stubbornness.
If you want any professional info, all you need to do is ask and I can point you in the right direction.
This is not a point scoring exercise, Branyan.
I’d have thought the ‘professional info’ would have been your leading argument.
Send me the professional info! I’m not scared!
Search for the Settlement Pattern of ancient Palestine or look up
Israel Finkelstein.
There are several excellent videos that cover the crucial evidence.
That should keep you occupied for a while.
It is worth considering the ramifications for the New Testament and the character Jesus of Nazareth in light of this evidence.
We can do the Flood later.
Have fun. I mean it.
It really is an eye opener.
…you’re telling me to do my own research.
I’ve read Finkelstein.
I’ve also read Callaway, Cohen, Horn, Sarna, Meyers and Shanks. (These aren’t YouTube video creators so I hope you’ll accept their Ph.D status.)
I’ve got a pretty good feel for the different theories regarding the settlement pattern of ancient Palestine. That’s how I know there isn’t a ‘complete refutation’ of Exodus.
You see why I’m so fearless?
I’m ready for the other science that has compelled you to embrace atheism. Surely we haven’t exhausted your resources.
Finkelstein, among others, has, through archaeology refuted the Exodus.
Seriously , I am unaware of an archaeologist, who does not have theological leanings, who does not accept that the biblical tale is anything more than a foundational myth.
And the evidence supports this.
Thus any allusions you may make regarding veracity of the biblical tale of the Exodus are simply erroneous.
As you are a non-professional I am impressed you have a pretty good feel.
That is a good sign and a step in the right direction.
Though, as you currently hold fast to your belief in the character Jesus of Nazareth and other unsubstantiated supernaturalism , you will, I’m sure, understand if I still maintain a few doubts as to your impartiality.
However,as you claim you have a feel for this I am interested in reading your personal theory of the biblical tale.
I offered no supernatural explanations. I asked for your scientific insights. I’m not interested in conjecture
I said you maintain supernatural beliefs regarding certain aspects of the New Testament, thus your impartiality is suspect.
As the Pentateuch is historical fiction your acceptance of the New is bound to be skewed.
Kenyon’s excavation of Jericho is an excellent example of why the conquest tale is pure fiction.
Kadesh Barnea demonstrates why 2 million plus people did not take up residence for around 38 years as described in the bible.
You claim you have a feel then please, I am interested in what your take is and what you base it on.
You maintain purely naturalistic beliefs regarding all aspects of the New Testament, thus your impartiality is suspect.
I have read enough to know there is no consensus among scholars regarding the Exodus. It is not dismissed as ‘historical fiction’ by the majority of biblical historians.
The timing of the Exodus cannot be determined with certainty. The biblical chronology is problematic. That’s all a guy like you needs to hear. Case closed.
A guy like me keeps reading and discovers there are several plausible explanations. One is advanced by Abraham Malamat and suggests that the Exodus from Egypt happened gradually over hundreds of years. There is ample archaeological evidence for Israelites appearing in Canaan beginning around 1200 B.C.E. Various models for how they got there have been proposed. The Conquest model (the Joshua narrative) and the Peaceful Infiltration model (the Judges narrative) both have plausibility. Most scholars agree that the settlement of Canaan does not have a single explanation. There are multiple explanations which all reveal some elements of truth.
If you know of Kadesh Barnea you no doubt have heard of Dibon-gad as well. It’s mentioned in the book of Numbers (33:45). Fascinating! Do you think that city is fictional too?
Now, what other science should compel me to embrace atheism?
Wrong. And this is why the view of people like Devers, Herzog and Finkelstein commands enormous respect,even though Finkelstein is viewed as somewhat extreme in some quarters.
While there are several settlement models there is not one that follows the biblical narrative.
Thus, anything proposed that tries to harmonise the biblical myth with the archaeology is doomed.
And this have been demonstrated time and time again.
There is absolutely nothing that even hints at 2 million people invading and attempting to conquer ancient Palestine.
As you do not seem to fully understand the meaning of the term Historical Fiction I suggest you do a little research.
whereas the view of Kn Ham and Bryant Woods is dismissed with impunity.
So no comment on Dibon-gad? Probably best that you skip it. That way, you can keep believing in the power of Kadesh Barnea.
Okay.
We can agree that Israel exists today. The Jewish nation arose somehow. Pick whatever history you like. Odds are you can find at least one scholar who agrees with you.
Now, what other science compels me to move toward atheism?
What relevance has Dibon-gad to the Exodus and conquest of Canaan as recorded in the bible?
If we are to accept there was an Exodus and it happened in dribs and drabs over time then this rules out pursuit by a Pharaoh’s army,( never identified) negates Kadesh Barnae and rules out conquests, all as per the bible.
The history of Israel is no real great mystery anymore, although there are several hypothesis offered.
However, the one as recorded in the bible is fiction, and no matter the scenario offered by relevant experts, only religious fundamentalists, ( biblical inerrantists) consider there is any veracity to a literal understanding of Exodus.
This is what you seem reluctant o acknowledge.
For once we take to pieces the story as it appears in the bible, why is there any reason we should not apply the same methodology to the gospel stories?
This is where it becomes tricky for the average Christian and more so for the fundamentalist.
The Pentateuch is acknowledged as historical fiction.
See if you can understand the ramifications of this as it pertains to the character Jesus of Nazareth.
Once you do this honestly, you will realise that there is no wiggle room left.
What then are your alternatives?
That should answer at least a major point regarding your recurring question about atheism.
If you still struggle to see the relevance, let me know.
Got it.
You are an atheist who doesn’t believe the Bible.
You’ve really given me a lot to think about! Thanks for the eye-opening information.
And we come full circle.
Every deconvert reading your attempt to justify your belief will nod and acknowledge,
”Been there, done that.”
It doesn’t really matter what or how many versions there are of the history and foundation of Israel.
The only thing of crucial relevance to you, the Christian, is that there is no version that matches the bible. Not one.
No evidence at all that supports the Exodus as described.
Now, sit and ponder, just for a few minutes, the implications and ramifications of this on the NT and the only honest answer that materializes is this:
Your entire presuppositional christian worldview is based on falsehood.
And we come full circle.
Every convert from atheism reading your attempt to justify your belief will nod and acknowledge,
”Been there, done that.”
It doesn’t really matter what or how many versions there are of the history and foundation of Israel. You’ve already determined what you’re going to believe.
The only thing of crucial relevance to you, the Atheist, is never being put in a position to defend your beliefs. In fact, you’ll never even STATE your beliefs.
You have offered nothing to ponder. Your entire presuppositional Atheist worldview is void.
You shouldn’t veer from ad hominem, Ark. It really is all you have to offer.
It really is quite tragic that you are obliged to search so desperately for evidence to support your presuppositional beliefs.
Yet, with even venture, around every corner and underneath every stone archaeology is refuting every single indoctrinated belief you hold dear.
Every single one.
While mainstream Christianity cringes whenever someone like Ham opens his mouth, when archaeologists shake their heads in bemusement when people like Bryant Woods or the late Ron Wyatt make another hyperbolic & utterly fallacious claim your beliefs look more and more untenable.
The bible is your salvation, this is quite true.
However it is salvation from delusion as biblical scholars, historians, scientists and archaeologist dismantle it book by book, verse by verse.
You already know my views regarding religion and god belief.
The question I wonder is this: how much truth will it take before you and others like you to admit that you have allowed yourself to believe a lie?
And this is why you are scared to have genuine dialogue with christian deconverts.
But maybe you will one day?
I tried to have a genuine dialogue with a Christian deconvert just today! Did you see KIA’s comment? He skittered away with his usual ‘have a nice day’ parting line. Go talk to him about cowardice.
Christianity is a sound, reasonable and robust worldview. I’ve demonstrated my fearlessness multiple times today. You’ve done nothing but accuse me of being delusional. Ad hominem. That’s all you got.
You’re a child, Ark. Do you not realize I have Google too? I’m fully versed in your atheistic dogma. I’ve got it ALL figured out. It’s the simplest thing in the world. What’s astounding is that you keep thinking you’re bringing something new and profound to my attention.
Where did matter come from?
How did life arise from non-life?
How did life become so diverse?
Where did man get the notion of evil?
Why do people feel shame?
These are just a few of the questions that have confounded you. It is not enough to reject religion. You need to explain what I’m supposed to believe after my deconversion. You haven’t answer a single question.
Not one.
You’re a worthless noise, Doug.
The origin of life is not on the table.
And it doesn’t matter either, other than from a (currently) speculative point of view.
We have the Big Bang. That’ll do for now.
Christianity and its foundational tenets are what’s at stake.
For you, anyway.
The Pentateuch is acknowledged as Historical Fiction by genuine scholars and historians.
You understand what this means, Branyan and you cannot run from this fact. The ramifications for you and Jesus of Nazareth should be glaringly obvious. If you’re honest. Can you be?
People like Norman Geisler cling to a literal understanding of the bible and simply state they do not fully understand it but it is Yahweh’s word (sic) so who cares?
It is as written.
Other Christians shamelessly state the impact of the Exodus etc has no bearing on their belief in Jesus of Nazareth as a savior.
When you acknowledge that the bible is nothing but Historical Fiction and the tenets of your faith are all man -made then evolution fits everything beautifully.
I like to think of it as elegant chaos.
And humans are just another life form.
Why do you worry so much about your ”soul”?
If you’ve been a naughty boy, then be a good one.
If you’ve hurt people and yourself, say sorry and move on.
Just because you act like a dick at the moment doesn’t mean you have to do so ’til you die.
Simply stop being a dick right now!
Yet for some weird reason you continue to look for some ultimate purpose, some meaning. As if some 2000 year old smelly little Jewish rabbi who may or may not have existed really gives a flying fark about your (mis) beaviour.
But again for some reason it seems to scare the shit out of you that what you believe is simply made up.
You should be really upset with those that indoctrinated you.
Ask then for the evidence. Screw faith.
Truly I just don’t get it.
And why should your god, Yahweh and your religion… sorry relationship, be the ONE out of the thousands that abound on planet earth. How frakking arrogant can one get?
Really when all said and done, you believe in a rather nasty fairy tale.
Just because science etc has not discovered all the answers you so desperately want ..right now …does not mean it won’t in the future.
What are you supposed to believe after your deconversion?
Once you deconvert you won’t give that question a milliseconds thought.
Ask a deconvert!
“The origin of life is not on the table.
And it doesn’t matter either, other than from a (currently) speculative point of view.”
Attaboy! You got no answers for those questions so…those questions don’t matter!
Go take some pictures. Feed the dogs.
You’re done here.
You have no answers for those questions either Branyan, so what the hell are you frakking bleating about?
Seriously, you’d are make Ken Ham look smart on this thread.
The issue is not answers to these questions but what’s at stake if YOU do not accept the doctrine that is the bedrock of your worldview.
So come on, it’s show and tell time.
Just what the hell are you afraid of by rejecting all the stuff you have been indoctrinated with?
Exactly what do you honestly think will happen if you stand up and sayÇ
”It really doesn’t matter one iota”.
Come on, Branyan, tell me.
Let’s see you step on a pair , step up to the microphone and be truthful.
What do think is really at stake?
Oh, but I do have answers. I’ve blogged about them for months now.
You haven’t given me a single reason to reject anything I’ve ‘been indoctrinated with’. Not one.
To date, my ‘indoctrination’ has run circles around your ‘indoctrination’. I’ve no intention of abandoning reason for your useless void.
Just start calling me names. Give up trying to converse. Ad hominem is your sole contribution.
Oh, come on Branyan, don’t wimp out now.
Lay it out so the dumb atheist can understand.
Just the facts.
A to Z if you like.
What exactly do you believe is at stake for you not accepting the doctrine of your religion?
Remember 1 Peter.
You got to make answer, right?
I’ve made answers.
Answer after answer.
I’ve thrown pearl after pearl before your cloven hooves.
You are the wimp. Your question is almost incoherent. I’ll ask it of you and we’ll see if you agree.
What exactly do you believe is at stake for you to accept the doctrine of my religion?
Absolutely nothing.
Blast ! Sorry …
Please. Could you link or repeat jut a single example that explains your position regarding what you consider is at stake for NOT accepting your religion/god. Just one will do.
An accompanying explanation would be a super bonus, if you are up to it. But it isn’t crucial.
Thanks again.
No.
We’ve moved on from this post.
You’re welcome.
So, unwilling to answer truthfully. You lambaste Mike yet when push comes to shove …. you are worse.
I’m sure there will be one Christian who is willing to make answer.
No problems.
Why not consider writing a post on it?
Oh, and the reason you refuse to explain is because you are unable to explain it.
The average Christian fundamentalist has no real clue about this particular doctrine and a number of deconverts I have had interaction with admit as such.
As a Young Earth Fundamentalist, I have asked Wally a similar question on several occasions.
He has yet to offer an answer that even he understands.
I understand it perfectly.
You are dodging the question I put to you by pretending to be interested the crucifixion.
If you can’t admit that you feel shame, then you don’t need Jesus. I said that in the post.
I am most definitely interested in the Crucifixtion of the character, Jesus of Nazareth.
our entire worldview hinges on the Passion(sic) and the following weekend.
Good. That’s super interesting, Ark! You’re really moving this conversation along!
You’re a young earth fundamentalist?
Wow
I never would have thought
I see your reading comprehension is as top notch as always, Wally.
Hey, you said it, not me. I quote..
“As a young earth fundamentalist.”
Since I have never told you one way or the other, obviously it was not me you meant.
I’d suggest you be more specific in what you say I suppose.
Somebody might misunderstand.
Most people would understand. However … there is always you. Ãnd you have mentioned on several occasions – though not directly to me , this is correct, that you tend to side with the YEC version of your religion. And there so many are there not?
Tend to side with.
Said it.
Wasn’t even addressing it with you.
Yeah, those are exactly the same thing.
Nice to see you have kept your fixation on truth telling…for everybody else LOL.
Look, If you are going to drag me into this? Get you story straight.
Your consistent twisting of what others say indicates:
You don’t read very well
You lie
Or, you have lost your marbles.
At any rate, what you said concerning me is false.
Drag you into this? I mentioned that you were one of the myriad Christians who have no clue what the doctrine of the crucifiction is about and are unable to explain it.
You chose to drag yourself into it.
I do not lie, I am not a Christian and have no need to.
I make mistakes and when I discover I have or it is pointed out I will always acknowledge.
Which part of what I said was false? a)That you tend to side with the YEC doctrine or
b) that you have no clue/understanding about the doctrine of salvation in relation to the Crucifixion?
Eh, no biggie, the lying thing
After all, it is expedient and culturally advantageous for you to do so…and we all know that’s how morality works.
Maybe some day when I evolve as far as you, I can lie as well and make it look like the other guy is a doofus.
Yes, what you said concerning me is false. Be careful as you backpedal, a person can get hurt that way.
Lying? No; have no need. I am not a Christian.
So, are you saying that, it is a mistake/false to state/suggest that you have written you tend to side with Young Earth Creationism?
Back to you. Obviously you think I should fell shame over this position you have said I have.
Why should I feel shame? And how do I know what shameful behavior is anyway?
I mean, why is mine shameful, and your is not? I don’t even cuss, after all.
You turn
Who said anything about shame?
You said I lied.
I flatly refute the claim.
And now you are simply avoiding answering.
So what does this make you?
The post, Ark
The post is about shame
And so what if it happens to be true that I told a big, fat lie? Why is it even wrong if I did? You seem to think I should feel shame for it. Why?
Oh, I care little other than it shows the hypocrisy of your position.
That you gleefully accuse me of lying when in fact you seem to make a habit of it is risible.
Sooooooooooo…are you actually going to answer the question?
Wait…I’ll do it for you, since I am pretty sure what is coming.
“I’m sorry, what was the question?”
Seriously, though. How about an answer.
Typing slow this time.
WHyyyyyyyyyyyyyy shhhooooooouuuullld meeeeeeeeeeeee aaaaaaaaaaaaaand John feel shame for what we say and do versus what you saaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy and dooooooooooooooo?
If you consider there is nothing wrong in lying then this would suggest you might have sociopathic tendencies.
If you need me to explain why this might have possible destructive side effects, especially in your day to day life, then you need to seek professional help.
But if you see nothing wrong in your behavior – lying and hypocrisy etc, trying to bait on purpose just to get a rise in an effort to look smart then you probably wouldn’t realise why you might need help or see the hypocrisy of your position as a self-proclaimed Christian.
Maybe time for a little introspection?
As you are a professing Christian an’ all.
Ark needs to appeal to Christianity to accuse you of wrong doing. Makes me wonder why he isn’t a professing Christian…
I know right? He has to appeal to God for a standard of right and wrong.
Fascinating, really
Oh well, it’s been fun. I am off to the cave for some Sunday evening indoctrination. Christmas Cantata time, gotta get there early and practice!
I’m so ashamed.
I’m just glad I have my atheist friends to teach me how to be a better Christian.
Ask Ark if he’s ever felt ashamed.
It seems to be a terribly difficult question for him to answer.
Perhaps at his stage of evolution he does not feel shame?
Or at this particular time shame is not culturally expedient?
Beats me, I am rather stupid
But he seems to think you and I should be ashamed of lots of stuff. So I’ve tried to get him to explain how he differentiates shameful behavior from his own. He struggles with that…
I’d love to see that myself. I shall try
He doesn’t get to ask questions until he’s answer the one about shame. His ‘meaning of the crucifixion’ question is just a distraction.
Well..yeah LOL.
John,
I pray for the gifts of shame and a sense of guilt to many this Christmas.
I must slightly disagree with you about Luke not giving the significance of the birth of Jesus. Luke speaks of a Savior being born unto us. A savior is (according to Meriam-Webster) : 1: one that saves from danger or destruction 2: one who brings salvation; specifically capitalized : Jesus
We were reminded of this by the prophet Linus in 1965 (well… I heard it on reruns… I was born in 1968):
Jews who read what Luke wrote would have been familiar with their Torah, and would have linked what Luke said about a savior to what Isaiah wrote in Isaiah 43:11 (ESV) – I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.
Blessed Christmas to all in the blog! And I pray a flash mob appears singing “O. Holy Night” near all of our unbelieving posters.
Dave
Acts 13:22-23 (ESV) – And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, ‘I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.’ Of this man’s offspring God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised.
John asks good questions
Pastor Mike never answers
I’m used to it now.
lol!
Bravo
Christianity is Designed to create the disease for the cure it offers. Like any good sales job or propagandist. Until you learn that ‘it ain’t necessarily so… the things that you’re liable to read in the bible, they ain’t necessarily so’
At the risk of being told it’s ‘none of my business’…
How do you understand the concept of sin now that Christianity “ain’t necessarily so”?
That would be a question directed to my current belief, not christianity… which is the subject of your post. If I want to describe what I currently believe and hold to be true in regards to sin or Faith in God, I’ll probably do it on my blog, not in answer to someone else’s post on christianity. Thx.
Cool.
You’re just gonna drop in to allude to some alternative perspective without actually stating anything. This is the sissy intellectualism I’ve come to expect from you.
I applaud your consistency, Beta.
And thank you for your consistency for responding with insecure childish insults. Have a great christmas.
Just giving you something to write about on your blog. Consider it a Christmas gift!
You’re out of your league here. Retreat to your blog space so JZ and Tildeb can pat you on the head.
Shove your Christmas wishes. They are meaningless coming from you.
Such a child. Lol
Right.
Make sure you link to your blog post so we can bear witness to the humiliation I suffer.
There is no post forthcoming. You’re pretty narcissistic too. But it’s not all about you, you know. Have a great christmas
If you want to write about your new, better-than-Christian beliefs on your own blog, I recommend getting some new, better-than-Christian beliefs first.
And have a wonderful Christmas, New Year’s, AND Saint Patrick’s Day!!!! (See how mature and sweet I am. I signed off with a bunch of well-wishes. Oh, and I hope your family is well, too!) 🙂 <3 🙂 <3
I think he’s upset because my post today is really good. No doubt he wishes he could write such eloquent and meaningful prose.
And he can still shove his ‘Merry Christmas’ wishes. The words are meaningless coming from him.
Here, I’ve written a Haiku he may use, if he’d like:
Christian beliefs suck.
But there is nothing better.
I’m irrelevant.
Can you beat that?
I’m probably going to purge this next month…
Lol! Now 5,7,5.
Turn it into a Haiku!
Will you read my blog?
I write emo poetry.
And I delete stuff.
I’m a sissy boy
I don’t know what I believe.
Church people are so mean.
Nope. Too many syllables. Take out the “so.” 🙂
Something like this:
Why won’t old friends call?
It’s like they haven’t missed me.
Their God is fiction.
Is it wrong to be a narcissist?
Do I need to repent?
“Christianity is designed…” by whom?