I’m in Hawaii this week.
But I didn’t get here by accident.
Before I arrived, I made a series of presuppositions.
No big deal.
I’m a man of faith.
My life is built on presuppostions…
…Grotesque, unscientific presuppostions.
There were thousands of instances where I proceeded by faith alone.
I can’t list them all but here are a few:
I assumed the online pictures represented the condominium we rented.
- I assumed the condominium had honest owners.
- I assumed I wouldn’t be allergic to an exotic island plant.
- I assumed a storm or volcano didn’t obliterate Maui.
- I assumed the airplane pilot had the skill and experience to not crash or get lost.
- I assume my 5 senses are providing true data about reality.
- I assumed I would not get sick (so far, so good).
- I assumed the tap water was not toxic.
- I assumed a plane would take us home next week (we’ll see).
It’s easy to admit my presuppositions.
No shame in confessing the bias brought about by faith.
Faith is how I ended up in a tropical wonderland, sipping coffee a few feet from the ocean.
Step one in any thought process is:
Make a presuppostion
Without some kind of assumption, you can’t move.
Neutrality is a myth.
Everybody is biased.
…At least, everybody in Hawaii.
To say, ‘I think God exists’, is a grotesque, unscientific presupposition.
To say, ‘I think no God exists’, is also a presupposition…
…but it’s more grotesque and unscientific.
Because it ignores the whole of nature.
It’s what I’d expect from someone who had been raised by wolves…
…without the experience of life among other reasoning human beings.
Someone who can’t presume God…
…can’t think.
Thinking presumes that thoughts can describe truth.
Presuming there is no God reduces thoughts to molecular collisions.
If you’re reading this while declaring ‘there is no God’…
…then this blog is just an arrangement of particles in the cold Universe.
There’s no purpose in writing a rebuttal.
Your objection to my claim that God exists is nothing but a flicker of chemistry.
Unless you believe your thoughts have some intrinsic value…
…but that requires, of course…
…a presuppostion.
39 Responses
LMAOARKENATEN! You fulfilled my multiple presuppositions. Good for you. What a maroon. Bless your heart.
Señor
John,
You are but an island away from me.
Hope you are enjoying Maui, while I toil away in the restaurant kitchen here on Oahu.
Get a good rest!
Dave
Isaiah 40:8 (ESV) – The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.
So–thanks to our buddy, Ark–we can see JB’s point spelled out:
Everybody makes presuppositions.
In fact, the scientific method itself is built on presuppositional reasoning. You presume (temporarily) a certain scenario…then you test it…then you document your findings and use them to make another presumption (guess/hypothesis) until you’re able to test and adjust again.
It’s impossible to even begin thinking without presupposing things… We presuppose things like “truth” and we presuppose that our brains are able to reason to it. When you don’t make ANY presumptions, you’re not thinking at all.
And THAT is called “Atheism.” 🙂
(Here’s a link I tried sharing with Ark a few days ago, and he said: “Okay, just clicked it. Sorry, sweets; it’s philosophy, and I generally don’t do…also, the review is way too long for moi.” LOL!!!!)
http://www.proginosko.com/2013/08/the-atheists-guide-to-reality
In other words …. you just make shit up.
It’s probably best that you don’t read or watch anything by C.S. Lewis.
If your best summary of the block you quoted is “You make shit up,” then you’ll probably summarize Lewis with, “Blah, blah, blah, something something, Jesus.”
🙂
You have to understand something to criticize it.
Still waiting for a response to where you think Jesus of Nazareth created the universe.
And you do make shit up … all the time!
I’m curious, have you read anything by Marcion?
You’ll be waiting a long time there, Chief.
Keep your amateur research into Jesus on your blog. We’re talking about presupposition and CS Lewis here.
Presupposition is a specific field of christian apologetics, as the quote I posted (paraphrased) states.
One is inclined to wonder why your faith needs any sort of apologetics – and entire professional industry as well, to boot -if the evidence for your god is so plainly obvious.
It would appear, based on the number of humans that do not believe in your particular personal god, that I and my fellow atheists are not alone in believing that this god you tout is no more real that the fairies living at the bottom of my garden.
So, you have never read Marcion then I take it?
You should. It will broaden your horizons. A lot more than that pathetic old fart, Lewis.
No, a presupposition is another word for assumption.
Presuppositionalism is one style of apologetics which emphasizes that everyone makes assumptions.
Again, you have to understand something to criticize it.
You really are astoundingly?
Why don’t you simply google Presuppositional Apologetics and you will get enough material to make you choke on the info.
Have you never heard of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Van_Til.
I’M astounding. Read my comment again.
A presupposition is an assumption. Like when someone says, “You’re Mr. Jones, I presume?”
And presuppositionalism is a style of apologetics which points out that everyone makes presumptions/assumptions… including Atheists.
Why do I need to Google it?
If it will help clarify things, I can start listing YOUR presumptions again…
Actually that should have been astoundingly ignorant.
I understand the definition.
In this particular case we are referring to Presuppositional Apologetics.
It is an entire branch of Christian Apologetics.
Hence my paraphrased quote.
It presumes, among other things that the bible is the inspired word of your god,Yahweh/ Jesus of Nazareth; the creator (sic) of the universe.
I hope that is clear enough for you Amanda?
Obviously you are ignorant of this particular field of your faith and
Nobody here has presumed any of those things, and you would do well to stop trying to force those presumptions.
It makes you sound silly when you have to tell other people what they believe before you can refute it.
Meanwhile, Lewis isn’t a presuppositional apologist, as I already explained. In his video (which you presumed not to need to watch because you presumed that Jerry Coyne’s opinion of Lewis was solid) he explained that he used to be an Atheist, but he struggled with the moral problem.
Why don’t you summarize what “the Old Fart” said in your own words, so all of us can see that you understood the point?
Ah, so once again, you are demonstrating your astounding ignorance.
I did not say Lewis was a Presuppositional Apologist.
I did say he is .. or rather was…an old fart.
Sure. I’ll summarize what he says, as soon as you tell me if you believe the character, Jesus of Nazareth is the Creator of the universe.
Oh, and because I am nice.,
Here is another Wiki link for you about Presuppositional Apologetics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics
And from the opening paragraph …
See…. basically, Christians ( like you) make shit up.
You’re presupposing the people at rational wiki are reliable sources…
And that you understand what’s being written there…
And that everyone here cares…
Would you like another link or citation?
If you are simply ignorant I can help.
If you are being purposely dense then I am afraid you need a therapist.
Of you don’t care, Amanda. This is because you relish the delusion.
By reveling in the lies it helps you maintain a tenuous grip on your version of reality.
Here is another excellent cite that should be right up your Fundamentalist delusional ally.
I love the word fundamentalist.
Is has Fun and Mental in it.
Something most indoctrinated Christians relate to. Though not so much of the fun I’m guessing; not when you have the threat of
Gehennasorry, Hell, hanging over you like the Sword of Damocles.So… Jesus of Nazareth. Creator of the Universe or just a smelly itinerant first century Rabbi?
By all means, Ark. Send me 10,000 links!
What will help your case is if I read every, single wiki article and blog post you’ve ever read…and THEN I’ll think exactly like you think!
(HA!)
I answered your Jesus question (multiple times). My hypothesis is that Jesus was God. The problem is, you’re not a good enough logical thinker to test that hypothesis with me.
How many of your links do I need to read, and how many times do I need to say that I believe Jesus the first chapter of John says about Logic/Jesus being God, before you’ll make good on one of your promises?
Did you read the CARM link?
You’ll just love Matt Slick.
So, faith it is …
… as you have no evidence of the veracity of that crappy opening chapter, something that does not appear in the Synoptics … Oooh, I wonder why not? ( go on Amanda. You tell me as you are such a clever little sunbeam for Jesus)
And I asked you if you believed the character, Jesus of Nazareth is the creator of the universe.
You have not answered this ….yet.
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
I’ve answered ALL of your questions.
“God” and “Creator” and “Logic” and “Jesus” are all names for the same Being…. unless someone can give me a better explanation…
But, if you call my methodology “faith,” then you also have faith. That has been my suggestion to you since the very beginning. But, the fact that you can’t understand the very foundation of thought itself keeps us from going any further.
As I told you yesterday, we’re still 100 miles from being able to establish why I believe Jesus was/is most likely God… because you still haven’t admitted that God exists in the first place.
We’re still 100 miles from discussing the particulars of Christianity. So–again–go back to your blog if you want to hear everyone exclaim about how informed and brilliant you are about a man who never even existed.
As a spoiler, I believe Jesus is God–which (if I’m correct) would make him the Creator. That’s the question you’ve asked a thousand times, even though it’s completely irrelevant to what we’re discussing HERE.
A brief explanation of the moral law, by C.S. Lewis:
Excellent!
Now explain how you get from the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth being the creator of the universe, to this ”life force’, in a logical way.
No circular statements/ reasoning.
The floor is yours.
Now who’s the liar?
Lie about what?
Ah, yes, sorry, you want my views on this video or the first one?
Forget it, Ark.
There’s a new post up.
Feel free to pop over there and derail the conversation by asking whatever questions on your mind, and refusing to answer any.
No I’m serious, I did promise. I just want to finds out which video you would prefer me to comment on. Take your pick?
But be quick as Liverpool Chelsea is on the TV and Half Time is nearly over …
I’m done here.
I’m not interested in talking to pseudo-intellectuals unless there’s a chance other people can read and learn from it. The best chance we have of helping others is by letting them see your nonsense on the newest thread.
If you’re going to make every conversation about Jesus, it might as well be over there.
And you can tell a pseudo-intellectual, because:
a) you know what an actual intellectual really is or …
b) you are a pseudo-intellectual yourself?
Well, whatever….you’ve made the absolutely delightful confession that you actually believe the actual narrative construct, virgin birth, man-god, Jesus of
NazarethNowhere for whom there is no extra -biblical evidence whatsoever, is actually responsible for the actual creation of the entire universe!And this is based on frakkinglogic!
LMAO.
Are you shitting me?
Even Lewis never actually said this did he?
Talk about shooting yourself in both bloody feet. You’re a real gem.
Now, go on, be a sport, put the icing on the Gateaux. Tell us all how you believe and understand in the logic of the Trinity!
Because you have listened to intellectuals!
Come on , Amanda it will be funnier than any of your dad’s gigs and as Liverpool beat Chelsea 2-1 it will cap my evening.
http://www.highresolutiontextures.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/brick-wall-free-textures-01.jpg
Oooh, The Wall. Well, my Dear Intellectual, here’s one just for you… and your invisible friend the Make Believe Creator Jesus of
NazarethNowhere.The lyrics are rather appropriate, especially the opening line… and fit you to a T…
Now listen very carefully…
https://youtu.be/34ZmKbe5oG4
This is what I picture whenever you beg me to talk about Jesus. (Just imagine this fella saying, “Uhhh…what question? Can you summarize it?”)
http://i49.tinypic.com/68vajc.jpg
I have never begged you to talk about Jesus, as there was no such person of that name for one thing.
Besides, what the
hellGehenna could you possibly talk to me about him? You don’t know a farking thing about ”him”!I merely asked if this was the character you genuflected to and considered the creator of the universe.
Now we know, don’t we?
lol ….
And don’t you feel silly!
Tell me, do you still put your hands together and pray?
Dear Jesus…
Silly me . I am busy reading an article about mental illness and certain effects caused by hyper-religiosity and I forgot to post the link.
Here we go …
https://carm.org/presuppositional-apologetics
And just how would you know whether Lewis was not a Presuppositional Apologist if you don’t know what a Presuppositonal Apologist is?
Are you telling Porky Pies again, Amanda?
Remember, Jesus is listening! You don’t want to go to hell, now do you?
Lol!
whether you think…
LMAOARKENATEN! (I’m making multiple presuppositions)
Señor
Hey, Señor Dipshit …. are you talking to yourself?
He’s going to prove your presumptions wrong by ignoring you and taking the highroad…
Oops, nope.
I’ve been trying to figure out if my experience of reading this blog post is real or merely my consciousness having an experience, I’ll call it a dream. Hmm. In my dream I don’t have to envy, because I order the dream to just have what I most crave. Envy in my dream should be impossible.
Am I now in Hawaii too? Nope. It’s real. Darn it.