God is the source of life.
Without God, you cannot live.
Not even for a second.
God is also the source of wisdom.
Without God, you cannot think.
Not even a little bit.
Here is what it looks like when people who lack wisdom speak to each other:
So… where did it all start? Before the big bang, was there a big collapse from another that came before?
This is KIA. He is recovering from Christianity. His new faith is a glorious mess of incoherence. He’s certain that the God of the Bible is a myth.
He’s asking these questions of an atheist.
Wouldn’t have the faintest idea. I don’t think terms like ‘start’ actually apply.
John Zande (aka. JZ) is an atheist. He’s confident that God does not exist. He doesn’t have the faintest idea about how everything started because “started” is the wrong term to use.
Atheism is 50% fighting over definitions of terms and 50% ignoring arguments.
Multiverse theory just pushes the question back a step. But the question remains
It doesn’t push the question back. It explains the universe as a brute fact.
Matter and energy always existed? Interesting. How would one go about demonstrating that as opposed to what we know about effects always needing a cause?
Matter only comes into play after the quark-gluon plasma cools enough. Matter, though, only makes up 4.6% of the universe. There’s much we don’t understand.
So… do we know where all the potential energy came from for the ‘laws of nature’ to act upon?
If the universe is aseitic, then it didn’t come from anywhere.
The word “aseitic” means “existing in itself and from itself”. In other words, if the universe is “God”, that answers KIA’s question. But of course, there is no God so…
This is what happens when two fools exchange ideas.
Have we possibly just exchanged a belief in an uncaused, Eternally existing person to an uncaused Eternally existing universe?
It’s exactly like the traditional theists thinking, minus the supernatural consciousness who then created an artificial world for reasons unknown.
Okay. So, is the advantageous view to suspend judgment on whether or not matter is without origin or if a god exists or does eternal matter have advantage over belief in God?
Yes, if faith and scientific process do conflict, I’d side with scientific process. At this point, I don’t see how either of the ‘origins’ scenarios are actually scientific – eternal matter just sounds more scientific. But I’m looking for clarification to ensure that I’m understanding that correctly.
I hope you don’t take this as an attack. …Your question for ‘clarification’ is a bit suspicious of the continued attempt at this equivocation. But that discussion is outside of my educational and experiencial ‘wheelhouse’ so to speak… So I will let JZ explain or clarify if he wishes. Until then… Google is your friend. ;). I’m finding articles on the subject, I’m sure you would be able to as well. Explore to your hearts and minds content.
One thing about it is this, Dylan. A god waving a magic wand makes NO sense.
This is Carmen telling Dylan that magic wands make no sense.
And she’s absolutely right about that.
Thanks, Carmen!
Maybe so, but does eternal matter make more sense? I don’t think so at this point. Do you?
Treating Carmen with respect, Dillon asks if she’s happy with the idea of eternal matter (brute fact universe).
Anything that even sounds vaguely scientific sounds more sensible than, “Poof! It was done!” – by a magical being.
LOL!
Carmen likes “It was done!” so long as there’s no “Poof!” in front of it.
That’s the problem. You need to read more about the subject. The scientific answer does have scientific backing, incomplete and still in process of discovery admitted. There is no scientific backing even possible for the ‘supernatural’ or God who lives, and operates from a supernatural realm. None at all. All you gave are arguments, mostly from ‘arguments from ignorance’ fallacies.
KIA has a black-belt in nitwittery. Only an expert nitwit could compose a sentence like this: “The scientific answer does have scientific backing…”
Notice how atheists are allowed to say, “I don’t have the faintest idea” without raising KIA’s ire. Dillon is scolded for giving “arguments for ignorance”.
This is what happens when you disconnect from the only source of wisdom in the universe. You get stupid.
12 Responses
These pagans appear to have a severe short-term memory deficit.
Also, I have to keep reminding myself that “KIA” stands fro Know-It-All, because to me it normally stands for Killed In Action. I find this mildly amusing somehow.
Hate to say it, but this is still confusing to read on the phone…
You might try putting quotes around what each Atheist is saying to differentiate it from your own commentary… :/
Also, why the back and forth between spelling Dylan’s name wrong and right? 😁
Ack! My eyes!
Dillon is my nickname… so it works ^_-
Lol. He’s an aging man. Forgive him. 😀
Meh.
Nobody reads the posts on atheists anyway.
They’re boooooooooring.
I usually read them. But I *am* nobody, so your statement is true.
I can so totally relate to “the pantomime of the brute force universe and our malevolent non creator,” but of course I call myself insanitybytes and absurdity really is my love language. I told Zande long ago the first step towards wisdom is, “God is good. I am a moron.” Just start there and everything else begins to fall in place.
These are all authority issues on display, Daddy issues. Listen to the absurdity behind, “The scientific answer does have scientific backing…” That’s an appeal to a higher authority, one that will hopefully trump God because God is really, really scary. Also, kind of like the boogeyman, He doesn’t even exist. Just squeeze your eyes shut and don’t let your feet slip out from under the covers and all will be well…..
For a tiny little moment there, I thought KIA might be moving into “belief “, but, then JZ just made so dadgum much sense, that…well, you know…who can argue with science? And I like how he told Dillon that we would have to let JZ fill in all the blanks that Google misses. That JZ..he knows everything.
Google is the atheist’s John The Baptist. They honestly believe, with all their heart and soul, that an internet search always results in a loss of faith.
Wow! It’s almost like the Holy Spirit through Paul knew what He was talking about!
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. FOR WHAT CAN BE KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS PLAIN TO THEM BECAUSE GOD HAS SHOWN IT TO THEM. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, HAVE BEEN CLEARLY PERCEIVED EVER SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD, IN YHE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. So they are without excuse. FOR ALTHOUGH THEY KNEW GOD, THEY DID NOT HONOR HIM AS GOD OR GIVE THANKS TO HIM BUT THEY BECAME FUTILE IN THEIR THINKING and their foolish heart was darkened. CLAIMING TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
(Rom. 1:18–25 ESVi)
MAN! What a gospel opportunity!! A word of exhortation, if I may. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, not from our clever arguments however useful and damaging they may be to the atheists worldview. We must start and end with scripture as our ultimate foundation and show it to them as we destroy their worldview (Prov. 26:4-5), otherwise we stand on their sinking ship with them as it goes under.
By all means, follow the link and offer these guys the word of God. A word of exhortation, the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.