Nan blocked me awhile back because I never contribute anything of value to discussions.
She doesn’t like to talk directly to me anymore.
She prefers to grab quotes from other bloggers.
NAN:
Believer:
I’m saying that atheism makes people suspicious because it makes no statements of belief. It offers no values, virtues, codes, rules or laws. A lack of belief is also a lack of substance. On atheism, right and wrong are matters of public opinion.
ME: Nan didn’t credit “the Believer” with this quote so I’ll go ahead and confess. IT’S ME!!!!
You can get the context here.
I’m responding to a discussion about why people are reluctant to vote for politicians that identify as atheists.
NAN: While not an atheist myself , I find these comments to consist of pure rhetoric. In other words, they are nothing more than tired, worn-out, meaningless, and oft-repeated words that Christian leaders use to brainwash (yes, I said brainwash) their congregations about anyone that doesn’t “profess Christ.”
ME: Actually, my comments are a near-perfect depiction of the atheist worldview. Atheists insist that they have “no religious beliefs”.
The brainwashing accusation is ridiculous. Nan is upset because I’ve articulated the atheist philosophy clearly enough that it is easily understood.
NAN: To say that atheists have no values, virtues, codes, rules or laws is nonsense to the nth degree. Truth be known, many are FAR more virtue-driven than those who sit in a pew every Sunday, pray before meals, cross their chests in public, display their bible on the living room table, place Christian stickers on their cars, carry placards to reject freedom of choice, etc., etc.
ME: I didn’t say atheists have no values or virtues. I said ATHEISM has no values or virtues.
Atheists have many values and virtues. In fact, atheists are FAR more virtue-driven than those who sit in a pew on Sunday.
That’s why it is stupid to tell me you don’t hold any religious beliefs.
NAN: Bottom line? Atheists are people too. They’re not monsters or ogres. They are not out to destroy religion (well, maybe some of them are), but they will — and do — stand up for their personal perspective on life. And it’s their right and privilege (at least in this country) to do so just as believers can express their affection and attraction to their deity.
ME: “Atheists are people too.” Check. Thanks for this news flash!
I never suggested atheists were ogres or monsters. I never suggested they couldn’t stand up for their perspective. Your refutation of stuff I never said is a powerful demonstration of your values.
9 Responses
The reason atheists like to use such fluffy and meaningless definitions of atheism is because when you actually articulate for them what atheism is, few of them are stupid enough to actually accept atheism as it really is. I’m constantly telling people on my blog “I don’t think that you’re an idiot I think you’re too smart to be an atheist.” Although many of them keep trying to prove me wrong.
And however you define it I would refuse to vote for an atheist.
Because atheism is stupid.
But her misunderstanding does illustrate one of the constant problems the left has, which is that they cannot separate the sinner from the sin or the heretic from the heresy. We say atheism is stupid even if the people who call themselves atheist are not. They are incapable of making that distinction and therefore believe that if you do not approve of homosexuality you hate homosexuals, if you are opposed to Islam you hate Muslims, if you have common sense you hate feminists. (I don’t have a great example for everything.) But they constantly show that they cannot separate and ideology from the person who holds it, which is why they are incapable of disagreeing with Christians and conservatives without being hateful. Atheism has already poisoned American politics. The last thing we need to do is elect more atheists into power.
I read the original post and wondered what her relevant point was. I don’t think these anti-Christians (if they don’t want to be called atheists) understand is that atheISM is not only a godless worldview, it’s strictly a value-less worldview, so they must borrow from other worldviews in order to appeal to morals or ethics at all. So, as you correctly pointed out, this is where they are religious to the nth degree. Far more religious than many Christians. It’s just self-absorbed instead of Godward.
What makes you think your life is so much better than atheists or “anti-Christians”? It is definitely godless, but definitely not value-less, the value is only what you make it yourself, is that is not obvious for you?
You and many of your clique are so up yourself you think you are better, happier, more successful and moralistic than anyone who does not believe in your Christian doctrines.
And I do not know how many times morals and ethics have been proven to have nothing to do with your precious Christian religious upbringing and faith because many thousands of bad priests in recent times have been exemplifying this fact for many years.
“Self-absorbed” religion is for me, call it what you like in an attempt to lower atheism to your own levels of a shackled existence. Christians hate the idea that we heathens do not worship your particular God, you cannot understand why not, you appear to have no idea why we do not believe what you do and why do we reject eternal life.
You are unable to hear us, you are oblivious to reality, logic and common sense because you are indoctrinated, you have nothing more to offer apart from your single God, you are emotionally fixated, obsessed and overwhelmed into this mind-numbing ideology just as Muslims, Hindus or Jews and and have this incessant need as they do to spread this mind controlling disease among what you call as “anti-Christians” including your grotesque ideals of preaching to inherent sinful children, therefore these are some reasons why atheists bloggers exist to protect minds and free lives from such neurotic and bizarre imaginations.
No one said anything about being happier, Steve.
It sounds like everyone agrees that Atheists are just as moralistic (and usually MORE so) than religious people!
Here you are, preaching the same sermon we’ve all heard many times.
This was an impressive answer. He immediately misses the point, creates a straw man, and dissolves into absurd ranting for the majority of his words.
Let me help you out here Steve.
The Christians are not saying that atheists lives have no value because they are atheists. They are saying that -if atheism is true -then there is no basis for believing that human life has any more value than a handful of gravel or a twice baked potato.
The value of Our Lives (as you seem to be saying) is something fictional that we imagine for ourselves. But this is the same as saying we have no actual value but can pretend we have whatever value (or lack thereof) we decide. This is what atheism offers -nothing.
Your pretend statistics about how many priests are abusing children are pretend, but even if we pretend it’s true it doesn’t prove your point. It proves JBs point. When Sinners sin, even if they are sinners who go to church, this does not prove the Bible is wrong but rather proves that it is right.
After all, on your worldview those priests might have decided that the value of their life was increased by molesting children, and since you believe that the value of one’s life is something each one of us makes up for ourselves, then your world do offers no ability to condemn child molesters.
As a Christian I can say that is wrong – not because it is something no Christian ever does but because it hurts other people and God condemns hurting other people, commanding us to love our neighbors. Right and wrong are not determined by what Christians do or don’t do but by the character nature and command of God. Showing that Christians sin is showing that sin exists and that Sinners need forgiveness. And that is the foundation of the Gospel.
As an atheist you know that it’s wrong to molest children, but your atheism gives you no reason to believe that it is wrong. So you are properly and objectively condemning child molesters as doing something evil, but that means that you are accepting the Christian worldview as true and Atheism as false.
Congratulations Steve, you are not stupid enough to be an atheist. Keep asking good questions and eventually everything will make sense.
And remember, Jesus loves you.
I don’t trust people who write books and then hesitate to say whether or not they think that book is “true.”
😀
Good ol’ Nan.
You two are just magnets for crazies, aren’t you? If you want to study clinical Insanity in this country you can either walk the streets of San Francisco or you can look at the comments section under something written by a Branyan.
The comment section under comedy sojourn is where the line between reality and absurdist comedy gets erased, cussed at, and then set on fire.
God bless you both.
Did you read my most recent post on CulturesAtWar, Bryan?
I don’t get surprised very often any more. But being DISAPPOINTED by the “crazies” in the church still happens.
Oy.
By the way, my comment went to moderation for some reason…
CENSORSHIP!!!