At this moment, being an insufferable jackass won’t send you to jail. In the United States, the law allows you to verbally offend me. The First Amendment to our Constitution let’s you say awful, hurtful, irreverent, mean-spirited, and downright stupid things. In America, you have the right to be a jerk.
Just don’t try to exercise that right on social media. Facebook does not have a Constitution that gives you the right to express yourself. Certain ideas are forbidden. It’s explained in their policies here.
Essentially, you’re not allowed to be a jerk on Facebook. That seems like a good thing at first. People shouldn’t be mean to each other. Facebook is forcing everyone to play nicely. Facebook won’t let you say awful, hurtful, irreverent, mean-spirited things. Facebook is standing up against jerks.
You’re not concerned about this because you’re not a jerk. You only use Facebook to post pictures of cats or Bible verses (or both). You don’t debate politics. You keep your religion to yourself. You’re a nice person who doesn’t force your opinions on other people.
It’s just your opinion that you’re a nice person. Facebook might disagree.
Social media platforms are concerned when you say awful, hurtful, irreverent, mean-spirited things about anyone’s protected characteristics. To force you to be compassionate, tolerant, and sympathetic, Facebook decides what you can say about anyone with any of these 9 characteristics:
If you’ve ever said something like, “Boys who think they’re girls are still boys,” – you’re a jerk. Facebook does not tolerate denying the existence of transgender people (read it here if you don’t believe me). And since they own the platform, they make the rules. It is illegal to be a jerk on Facebook.
I’m moving toward places where I’m free to be a jerk. The social media platform 
(MeWe.com) let’s me say all kinds of jerky things without censorship. I can say, awful, hurtful, mean-spirited stuff like:
- Men can’t have babies.
- Women are not men.
- Gender is determined at birth.
- Children can’t pick their gender.
- Boys and girls should use different bathrooms.
- Men and women perform different roles in society.
You should come with me. You can post pictures of cats or Bible verses (or both) on (MeWe) just like you do on Facebook. Tell your family and friends to come with you. They deserve to know there’s a place where they can be jerks.
You should also get on my mailing list. Email is the only way you’re guaranteed to hear from me. If you’re relying on social media, you’re not seeing everything. Facebook (and Twitter, and YouTube) decides what you’ll see. They filter content so you’re only reading what they allow you to read. If you’re cool with that, stay the course. If you’d like to decide for yourself whether or not I’ve got anything worth knowing about, click this and get on my mailing list.
Finally, you should subscribe to my blog. If you’re reading this because you clicked a link on social media, guess what? You’ve missed a bunch of articles. The social media platforms haven’t let you see everything I’ve written. Only a fraction of my Facebook followers see my blog posts on their wall. From any page on the blog, Hit the red “Follow” button in the lower right corner and enter your email address. Then, enjoy the smugness that comes from controlling your own literary destiny.
Social media companies are controlling what you say. It is naive to think Bible verses and cat pictures are immune to censorship. Facebook owns your thoughts. They decide whether or not you’re allowed to express yourself. I think that’s outrageously wicked. Does it bother you even a little bit?
162 Responses
A believer in free speech who censors. Now, there’s a thing!
You still here?!!
I thought you might have been locked away in a rubber room.
Here you go, champ: https://johnbranyan.com/logical-fallacy-ad-hominem/#comment-21443
Cheers.
JB, define “free will”.
LOL
After you’ve assured me there’s no such thing??!!
LOLOLOL!
Ah, always feels good when JB does exactly as expected. JB won’t define free will since he knows he will be caught in a lie and his claims will fail.
Poor JB, you seem to think that just because something doesn’t doesn’t exist, you can’t define it. Tsk. I can define many things that we can imagine but that don’t exist. I can define the starship Enterprise, I can define Allah.
I know you asked JB but I feel left out so if you tell me free will is real I’ll define it.
I see you can’t define free will either for exactly the same reasons JB can’t, you are desperately afraid to since it will show your bible doesn’t work with free will at all.
You must have a lot of trouble in school if you can’t figure out things like defining things and ideas that aren’t real. Such a shame for someone who is supposedly 14 years old.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/definition
Kids Definition of definition
1: a statement of the meaning of a word or a word group
2: clearness of outline or detail
//You can adjust the screen for better definition.
same source:
free will noun
Definition of free will (Entry 2 of 2)
1: voluntary choice or decision
//I do this of my own free will
2: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention
Kids Definition of free will
: a person’s own choice or decision
//She confessed of her own free will.
Well I’ve actually gotten straight A’s my entire life but if you would like to continue insulting my intelligence be my guest. It doesn’t reflect negatively on me. Ok, you’ve defined free will now tell me if you believe it exists
“Well I’ve actually gotten straight A’s my entire life but if you would like to continue insulting my intelligence be my guest. It doesn’t reflect negatively on me. Ok, you’ve defined free will now tell me if you believe it exists”
Sure, Jack, sure you have. You were the one insisting you were a child. I guess that isn’t convenient to claim if you feel insulted by being treated as one.
So, we have you saying you’ll define free will if I agree it is real. “I know you asked JB but I feel left out so if you tell me free will is real I’ll define it.”
And when I point out that all sorts of imaginary things can be defined, you don’t seem to comprehend that. Then we have you yet to define free will.
You’ve also seen where I have stated I do not believe free will as defined as I have quoted exists. I do believe that we have a limited ability to choose things.
We also have JB saying that free will is the ability to make a choice, of course after he was unable to do so.
“Club, if you can make choices, you have free will. That’s how I define free will.
God “interfering in human actions” doesn’t negate free will. You keep repeating the same things over and over but that doesn’t make them true.” – JB
Now, this supposed definition fails since choosing isn’t defined as free will for a reason. Free will is something close to this “Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded” The “unimpeded” part being exactly what make the difference between simple choice and free will.
Humans are impeded from making choices by our prior experience and our physiology. If the bible is to be believed, we are impeded from making choices by the interference of this god. So, free will doesn’t exist except as a concept and yep, we can define those with no problem even if it doesn’t exist in reality.
As I told, JB: “Yep, as we know already, you try to redefine words when they don’t work for you. No one cares about JB’s personal definition of free will; that’s just one more false thing being told for JB’s benefit aka a lie.”
What is interesting is that JB won’t answer this:
If god prevents you from making a choice, can you make that choice, JB?”
Can you, Jack?
Of course I couldn’t make a choice God prevented me from making. Luckily, God doesn’t prevent choices. That itself is free will.
“Of course I couldn’t make a choice God prevented me from making. Luckily, God doesn’t prevent choices. That itself is free will.”
So, where does God give the ability to make choices?
“18 So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.”
where does David’s son get a choice?
“The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became very ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child; David fasted, and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood beside him, urging him to rise from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died.”
Where do these humans get a choice?
“17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by agreeing to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. ”
the blind man get a choice?
““Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him.”
Job’s family?
““Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!””
Funny how this works and that this god of yours, per the bible, prevents people from making choices.
Does this god interfering with a battle prevent choices, Jack? If your god said I couldn’t make a left turn when I wanted to make a right, how does that work in regards to making a choice?
Those are not actually the ability to make a choice. That or they are punishments for sins.
Jack–I hope you remember your encounters with Club until you’re an old man. There is no better insurance against Paganism than meeting a God-denier whose futility is on full display.
You may go through many periods of confusion or deconstruction or wrestling with God during the course of your life. But never forget that there IS a God who created our minds for the purpose of his glory. And never forget what happens when you reject His gift, as the outraged Atheists have. 🙂
Thanks! I use these encounters mostly to test my beliefs and if I can defend them against a god-denier. To be honest I enjoy them too.
To my recollection, Club has never required me to defend my beliefs. She assigns me a cartoon religion which she insists is “Christianity” and accuses me of lying when I reject it.
I bet if we counted the number of times she has used some derivative of the word “lie”, the total would be a four digit number.
Probably in this thread alone.
“Those are not actually the ability to make a choice. That or they are punishments for sins.”
Nice try but no. to choose: to select freely and after consideration – merriam webster
If someone can’t make a choice because this god murdered them, then free will and choice are ended.
It wasn’t David’s son’s fault that his parents did something hat this god supposedly didn’t like. Why were all of his choices taken away from him?
Is it fair to punish someone else for the actions of another, Jack? Are you willing to be punished for a murder that Amanda committed?
When this god hardened hearts when the people were choosing to do what it wanted, where is the choice there?
This god removed all choices from the blind man to do anything requiring site only to show off.
Job’s family weren’t sinful. Being killed for this god to show off removes all of the choices they would have ever made.
and this last is actually the abilty to make a choice and isn’t a punishment for sins.
Does this god interfering with a battle prevent choices, Jack? If your god said I couldn’t make a left turn when I wanted to make a right, how does that work in regards to making a choice?
Alas, you are doing very poorly in defending yourself, Jack. You will find that Amanda and other Christians will lie to you and tell you otherwise but she has a vested interest since she needs the external validation that she is right and everyone else is wrong. She doesn’t know what paganism is and all she has are threats of what will supposedly happen to you if you dare disagree with her and her god.
“Jack–I hope you remember your encounters with Club until you’re an old man. There is no better insurance against Paganism than meeting a God-denier whose futility is on full display.
You may go through many periods of confusion or deconstruction or wrestling with God during the course of your life. But never forget that there IS a God who created our minds for the purpose of his glory. And never forget what happens when you reject His gift, as the outraged Atheists have”
Did you choose to write this comment, Club?
Funny how the opinions that used to make me square now make me punk.
I’ve turned into Johnny Rotten.
John, I notice the MeWe TOS prohibit posting anything that is “hateful”, without defining what constitutes hateful. Maybe they will be reasonable, maybe not. IIRC, FB used to ban undefined “hateful” content too, before they came up with increasingly detailed, flaming liberal, left-leaning, faith-unfriendly definitions.
For now, MeWe doesn’t have an algorithm that reduces the number of followers who see posts. Everyone who follows you will see your post on their wall.
I’m sympathetic to the problem of building a platform that encourages free speech in a world of online anarchists. The trolls are not interested in communicating, they just want to destroy everything. The overall quality of the platform diminishes and regular people quit using it. My mother, for example, would not use a website where the F-word appeared prominently on her page. I don’t agree that a “hate speech” policy needs to be observed but I do understand why social media sites have them.
The “block” and “unfriend” options on Facebook are frequently used by people who don’t value free speech. Those people would not be Facebook users if they weren’t allowed to censor the other users.
I might find MeWe more attractive if I could actually create an account. Every time I try, it says “We’re sorry, something seems to have gone wrong. Please try again soon.” It’s been doing that for about a week. And I find no contact information on the website so I can’t alert them to the problem. As a long shot, I sent an email to webmaster@mewe.com, but no luck.
I can understand how that would dampen your enthusiasm for the service…
” I can say, awful, hurtful, mean-spirited stuff like:
Men can’t have babies.
Women are not men.
Gender is determined at birth.
Children can’t pick their gender.
Boys and girls should use different bathrooms.
Men and women perform different roles in society.”
Good of you to admit that you are a jerk, JB. A jerk who has to pretend that a god agrees with him, but who can’t do anything that god promised.
Now go off the playground and take your balls with you to be with other jerks. I’m sure that incels, white supremacists and losers who worship losers like Nazis and Confederates will welcome you.
Tsk. Tsk.
Such hateful rhetoric would never be tolerated on Facebook. I’m happy to provide a place where you can speak freely without fear of censorship.
You’re welcome!
that’s very funny JB since my points are okay on facebook all of the time, even when I point out how Christians lie and when lil’ Trumpies try to be insulting and call me a twat. It’s nice to see you lying again, JB, to try to pretend you are a martyr.
You seem like an unhappy person.
Ah, I see I hit the reason. Me We is quite the social media page where you supposedly have privacy, and you get to have posts disappear. This would help people who say things they are embarrassed about.
It’s most curious on how this is funded. As the wiki article noted, it is expected to be a home for anti-vaxxers, and other silly conspiracy theorists who need an echo chamber since reality dares to be against them.
People who occasionally get embarrassed by the things they say are healthy, well-adjusted people. Do you ever get embarrassed about the things you say?
Sometimes, but it’s rare. Now for you? You averred that I was the wisest person you know. Embarrassed about that?
It would be embarrassing to be found out to be a sympathizer with losers like nazis and confederates, so I supposed many people value mewe for helping them hopefully avoid that.
My reference to your wisdom was facetious. No. I am not embarrassed about it.
Your accusations of Nazi sympathizing is absurd.
“My reference to your wisdom was facetious. No. I am not embarrassed about it.
Your accusations of Nazi sympathizing is absurd.”
ah, so you lied about it. I asked you repeatedly about it and if you agreed with me and you said yes.Hmmm.
Good for you, JB. As for mewe, the articles about are quite good. And yep, it’s full of people like you, JB. People who want to be jerks and spew what lies they have.
If God doesn’t exist, then lying isn’t wrong. You’re not representing atheism very well when you constantly scold me for lying.
“If God doesn’t exist, then lying isn’t wrong. You’re not representing atheism very well when you constantly scold me for lying.” – JB
Hmmm, that’s only your opinion JB. Most civilizations find lying wrong, so your god isn’t needed to determine if lying is wrong or not. Humans do quite well on their own.
I do love to see you be a hypocrite when it comes to what you claim to believe in.
Hmmmm, that’s not only my opinion, it’s logic.
I do love to see you undermine your atheist worldview by appealing to “civilizations” and “humans” as objective standards for behavior.
Do you understand that your subjective morality doesn’t apply to me?
“Hmmmm, that’s not only my opinion, it’s logic.
I do love to see you undermine your atheist worldview by appealing to “civilizations” and “humans” as objective standards for behavior.
Do you understand that your subjective morality doesn’t apply to me?”
so, show the supposed logic, JB. You can, right?
I’m not appealing to anything for objective standards for behavior, but nice try to lie about that, JB. Nope, it’s all subjective, but humans and civilization have tended to agree on those laws and actions that make civilization work. Happily, most of us have outgrown slavery, genocide, and pretending a god has made us its “chosen people”.
If you don’t want laws and to treat people humanely, sure, JB, they don’t have to be followed by you at all. That’s your choice, to be the jerk you always have been.
As I said, a consistent Atheist would not scold anyone for being a jerk. There are no jerk in subjective morality.
“As I said, a consistent Atheist would not scold anyone for being a jerk. There are no jerk in subjective morality.”
And agian, we have JB back to his insistence that a theist is the person to define what a “consistent atheist” is. All that means is poor JB is upset that atheists don’t care what he thinks.
With subjective morality, one can indeed define a jerk. It’s rather amusing that JB tries to claim otherwise. It’s always fun to watch you deny reality, JB.
It is not me who denies reality. I’m not professing subjectivity. That’s all you.
“It is not me who denies reality. I’m not professing subjectivity. That’s all you.”
So, we are back to this. Okay, JB, tell me how I should know that your morality is objective? Christians are all over the map on what they want to claim their god wants as morality. If you can’t, then we’re back to you having baseless claims, just as baseless as the Christians you claim are wrong.
And what makes objective morality better than subjective morality?
You don’t seem to understand your own professed beliefs. These questions indicate that you don’t grasp the meaning of ‘subjective’.
“You don’t seem to understand your own professed beliefs. These questions indicate that you don’t grasp the meaning of ‘subjective’.”
subjective: characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind (merriam webster)
Nice dodge. I see you can’t answer my questions.
You can copy and paste. That’s not the same as understanding. If you grasped the concept, you would not have asked your question.
You are doing a good job of bullying a child though.
“You can copy and paste. That’s not the same as understanding. If you grasped the concept, you would not have asked your question.
You are doing a good job of bullying a child though.”
Nice dodge as usual. It’s a shame you won’t answer the questions, JB, but that would be inconvenient for you if you admitted that you don’t have objective morals, wouldn’t it?
As for Jack being 14, there is little chance of that. And if he wants to lie about me and to me, well, the poor thing gets to be held accountable. A pity you try to lie and call that “bullying”.
Again, there are no “answers to questions” when everything is subjective. You inability to grasp this concept is not my fault. It’s Gods.
For some reason, God hasn’t given you the ability to think. Your brain doesn’t work correctly. If you ask God to give you wisdom, he will. Right now, you’re just an angry, incoherent bully without a salient point to make. I suggest you step away from the keyboard and beg the source of all knowledge to have mercy on you and give you the ability to see truth.
I am the Greta Thunberg of this blog.
Happily, JB, not everything is subjective. The only thing we’ve talked about here that is subjective is morals and your belief in a god. As I’ve pointed out, most, if not all civilizations have largely the same morality because it works well. They change thanks to humans getting more education about reality, and that the claims of some people are better than others by dint of their skin color or religious beliefs are shown to be false. That Christiasn can’t agree on morality and insist that they have the truth is evidence that there is no reason to believe you have any objective morals at all.
So, if it’s your god’s fault I can’t supposed grasp what subjectiveness is, then poof goes your false claims about free will. Darn.
Alas, reality shows your attempt to claim your god made me unable to think to be wrong. But nice lie there anyway, JB, since again you contradict yourself and your claims about free will. I guess you have to make things up to try to pretend you are smarter than me and only your fantasies work.
You also say that I could ask your god for wisdom right. Okay, I did, “Please God, give me wisdom and truth.” Asked sincerely and funny how I think just the same. So, that would mean that your god agrees with me and thoughts and I see the truth. Or it means your promise about your god was false. Which is it, JB? Will you try to blame me for your god’s actions or inaction?
I’ve been having some fun reading old posts by you and Jack and they are quite revealing. Jack tried to lie about me before and failed. He also ran away when I answered his questions and posed some questions that he couldn’t answer.
““Why did God allow Satan into Eden? Because if there wasn’t a darkness, Satan, the world would be perfect.” – Jack
You mean like heaven? Does there need to be evil in heaven? By your claim, yep, there needs to be.
“Also we were gifted with free will, and if you have free will you must have the ability to do wrong or you have no freedom. So no, God isn’t evil he’s a God who has given us a gift of free will and allowed us to exercise that gift. Thanks for telling me why the esophagus is next to the trachea by the way.” – Jack
No mention of free will in the bible; it is the complete opposite. This god, per your bible, repeatedly interferes in human activity, abrogating free will. Instances of this is interference in what the pharaoh did, forcing the Egyptian people to give up their wealth to the Israelites, interfering in battles, killing people for things that they didn’t do or for no reason at all (see David’s son among others), and the best one in Romans 9 where Paul says that this god doesn’t allow some people to accept it. Free will doesn’t work if this god is acting against humans. If there are miracles now, then again this god abrogates free will. But of course, Christians can’t agree if miracles happen now or not.
Hmmm, still no answer to where free will is mentioned in the bible, JB confirms that and no admission that the bible says that his god controls people. How unfortunate.
And, no Jack, you aren’t anything like Greta. You make false claims about others. https://johnbranyan.com/kanye-is-jesus-in-reverse/#comment-36486
It is a shame that your religion seems to make you want to lie.
“5 But if our injustice serves to confirm the justice of God, what should we say? That God is unjust to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world? 7 But if through my falsehood God’s truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!” – Romans 3
Hey, at least your bible has a few good things in it.
Did you write this by choice or is it the unintended result of mindless cosmic forces?
“Did you write this by choice or is it the unintended result of mindless cosmic forces?”
I wrote this because of the influence and experience I have had reflected in my biology. There is no evidence of literal free will. we are all what we have experienced and are. There is also no free will in the bible, so Christian claims of it fail. What we have in teh bible is a god that controls everything and everyone because of its “plan”, and who picks and chooses who can believe in it and who constantly interferes with human action, if we can believe the bible.
Cosmic forces may be mindless but they do obey parameters. Again, we do not have a Dr. Seuss-ian universe where anything can happen.
It’s not a surprise that you are trying to ignore your failure again.
“You also say that I could ask your god for wisdom right. Okay, I did, “Please God, give me wisdom and truth.” Asked sincerely and funny how I think just the same. So, that would mean that your god agrees with me and thoughts and I see the truth. Or it means your promise about your god was false. Which is it, JB? Will you try to blame me for your god’s actions or inaction?”
Do you expect me to take responsibility for my failures when you don’t believe I have free will?
“Do you expect me to take responsibility for my failures when you don’t believe I have free will?”
because humans can make choices, limited as they are. But we’ve been through this before, JB, and all you are is a hypocrite, ignoring your own supposed beliefs as is convenient.
Are you making choices to lie, JB? Or not?
Did you lie when you said this: “If you ask God to give you wisdom, he will.”
I asked and haven’t noticed a change. Did you god decide I was wise already? Did he think that your casually claiming he’d do something when he didn’t feel like it to be presumptuous? Or is it that you god doesn’t exist at all? Didn’t you offer the right magic spell to get this wisdom?
Not many answers that reflect well on you.
“because humans can make choices, limited as they are.”
There’s the free will you don’t believe exists.
Consistency is hard when you’re an atheist.
““because humans can make choices, limited as they are.”
There’s the free will you don’t believe exists.
Consistency is hard when you’re an atheist.”
Wow, JB, good to know you have redefined “free will”.
Sorry, “limited” doesn’t work with free will. You see that word “free” there? 😀 I wonder, do you also think water with just a little bit of poo in it is “pure”?
Again, JB, how does free will (I find this definition workable: “Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded”) work with your bible’s claims?
This god interferes with human action.
This god picks and chooses who will be damned and who won’t be through no action of the human being.
This god kills people, the ultimate denial of free will.
Choice and action with limits is exactly that. Choice/action without limits is free will,
Wow, Club, good to know you have redefined “free will”.
Consistency is hard when you’re an atheist.
“Wow, Club, good to know you have redefined “free will”.
Consistency is hard when you’re an atheist.”
funny how I haven’t redefined anything:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_in_theology
those pesky christian philosophers
You said people make choices.
That’s free will.
Game over, Club.
Continuing to rant about how free will doesn’t exist makes you look silly.
Free will definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_in_theology
please do show where I’m wrong or making up a new definition, JB.
You can’t seem to make up your mind whether free will exists or not.
You’re quite inconsistent.
“You can’t seem to make up your mind whether free will exists or not.
You’re quite inconsistent”
keep going, JB. I am happy that you ignore your bible in order to lie.
You’re incoherent.
“You’re incoherent.”
And of course JB can’t actually show this to be the case. Sadly, reality doesn’t work with conservative Christians very well.
LOL
“If there is no free will, you can’t hold me responsible for anything I say or do.
Your rants are silly.”
I certainly can. Again, experience is the teacher. Can you learn anything, JB? Will that learning create a new reason to make a different, although still limited, choice?
Always good to know that JB can’t answer my questions.
If I can make a choice, however limited, then I have free will.
Always good to know that Club can’t understand her silliness.
“If I can make a choice, however limited, then I have free will.
Always good to know that Club can’t understand her silliness.”
And this, children, is why JB won’t define “free will”.
“If I can make a choice, however limited, then I have free will.”
And this, children, is why JB says Club is silly.
I’ve answered your questions.
Rave on, lunatic.
““If I can make a choice, however limited, then I have free will.”
And this, children, is why JB says Club is silly.
I’ve answered your questions.
Rave on, lunatic.”
and JB has chosen to lie again since he has not answered my questions and as suh, can’t show where he has. Poor thing can’t define free will, and has tried to claim one can’t define things that don’t exist.
I’m glad you think your god is so stupid to believe your lies, JB.
Free will is not omnipotence. We don’t make EVERY decision. That doesn’t mean we don’t make ANY decisions.
“Free will is not omnipotence. We don’t make EVERY decision. That doesn’t mean we don’t make ANY decisions.” – JB
No one said that free will was omnipotence. That’s why they are two different concepts.
It’s so fun to watch you try to avoid defining free will, JB.
It’s so fun to watch you try to avoid admitting that I defined free will perfectly.
Your earlier diatribe suggests the notion that because God determines life and death, humans don’t have free will. That’s why I mentioned omnipotence. Now, go ahead and accuse me of lying since that’s the only rebuttal your addled mind ever produces.
You’re at a dead end, Club. You can’t insist there’s no free will and also insist humans can make choices. Those things are contradictory.
“It’s so fun to watch you try to avoid admitting that I defined free will perfectly.
Your earlier diatribe suggests the notion that because God determines life and death, humans don’t have free will. That’s why I mentioned omnipotence. Now, go ahead and accuse me of lying since that’s the only rebuttal your addled mind ever produces.
You’re at a dead end, Club. You can’t insist there’s no free will and also insist humans can make choices. Those things are contradictory.” – JB
Where did you define free will, JB? Certainly you can cite the post and date and time, right? and it’s always great when you can’t show I’ve said anything like you’ve claimed, but have to falsely claim i “suggested” something. Please do quote this “suggestion”, JB.
Omnipotence has nothing to do with free will. But I’d be happy for you to show where it does. Omnipotence means “all-powerful”, that doesn’t indicate choice at all, just power.
God picking and choosing who can accept it and who can’t abrogates any concept of free will in humans. So does your god interfering in human actions and choices.
Thanks for showing the difference between free will when it comes to humans and a supposedly omnipotent being, JB. You did exactly what I needed.
Again, humans can make limited choices framed by their physiology and experience. Humans can not make any choice ever with no limits of physiology or of experience and that is what free will consists of. For example, with the limits of physiology and experience, do you think a survivor of the nazi concentration camps would make a choice to go back into them? With free will, those experiences would count for nothing; that is not the case in reality.
Club, if you can make choices, you have free will. That’s how I define free will.
God “interfering in human actions” doesn’t negate free will. You keep repeating the same things over and over but that doesn’t make them true.
“Club, if you can make choices, you have free will. That’s how I define free will.
God “interfering in human actions” doesn’t negate free will. You keep repeating the same things over and over but that doesn’t make them true.” – JB
Yep, as we know already, you try to redefine words when they don’t work for you. No one cares about JB’s personal definition of free will; that’s just one more false thing being told for JB’s benefit aka a lie.
If god prevents you from making a choice, can you make that choice, JB?
You asked me to define free will. Then you tell me no one cares about my definition of free will.
You’re deranged.
“You asked me to define free will. Then you tell me no one cares about my definition of free will.
You’re deranged.” – JB
not at all. but thanks for showing how you would define free will, when you
““Club, if you can make choices, you have free will. That’s how I define free will.
God “interfering in human actions” doesn’t negate free will. You keep repeating the same things over and over but that doesn’t make them true.” – JB
Yep, as we know already, you try to redefine words when they don’t work for you. No one cares about JB’s personal definition of free will; that’s just one more false thing being told for JB’s benefit aka a lie.
If god prevents you from making a choice, can you make that choice, JB?”
when you said this prior “LOL
After you’ve assured me there’s no such thing??!!
LOLOLOL!”
Your Bible thumping is nauseating.
“You said people make choices.
That’s free will.
Game over, Club.
Continuing to rant about how free will doesn’t exist makes you look silly.”
No, JB, I didn’t say that at all. I said this “because humans can make choices, limited as they are. But we’ve been through this before, JB, and all you are is a hypocrite, ignoring your own supposed beliefs as is convenient.”
those limits are our physiologies and our experiences. Thus no “free will”
free will is making choices without limits. It is great fun to see you ignore the links I put that show you are lying again.
Again, JB, no surprise that you can’t answer my questions:
Again, JB, how does free will (I find this definition workable: “Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded”) work with your bible’s claims?
This god interferes with human action.
This god picks and chooses who will be damned and who won’t be through no action of the human being.
This god kills people, the ultimate denial of free will.
Choice and action with limits is exactly that. Choice/action without limits is free will,
here’s even more Christian contradiction in what they believe about “free will”: https://www.theopedia.com/free-will
God gives you the ability to make choices.
If there is no free will, you can’t hold me responsible for the things I do and say.
It’s not complicated.
“God gives you the ability to make choices.
If there is no free will, you can’t hold me responsible for the things I do and say.
It’s not complicated.”
I see you are desperate to not be held responsible for being the jerk you are so proud of being.
So, where does God give the ability to make choices?
“18 So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.”
where does David’s son get a choice?
“The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became very ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child; David fasted, and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood beside him, urging him to rise from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died.”
Where do these humans get a choice?
“17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by agreeing to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. ”
the blind man get a choice?
““Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him.”
Job’s family?
““Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!””
If there is no free will, you can’t hold me responsible for anything I say or do.
Your rants are silly.
Who is this god that loves Nazis and white supremacy? I didn’t know that John was worshipping a false god or was part of some weird cult. How did you get this inside information? You seem to know John better than he might know himself.
Club think that everybody who’s ever said Jesus is evil and hateful.
Hey, Jack, thanks for the intentional lie from a Christian. Nope, never said that and alas for you, my parents are Christians and quite nice people.
So did you grow up in church?
Now, did you grow up in a church? And what did it say about telling lies about other people, Jack, like you have chosen to do?
“So did you grow up in church? – Jack
Yes.
What made you hate Christianity so much?
Nice to see you haven’t apologized for lying about me, Jack. But that’s expected.
“What made you hate Christianity so much?”
I don’t hate Christianity. I know it is nonsense and point that out. I also know that the various versions Christians invent cause harm and I stand against that. I do hate that harm.
I stand against Christians like JB who want to force their hate and ignorance on others, and who try to spread that hate and ignorance. I stand against liars like you who try to lie about me.
So, Jack, did you grow up in Christianity? Can you tell me when you were taught that lying about people was okay because I just can’t find that in the bible? Now, you won’t answer because that would be inconvenient for you.
Club, I’m only 14 and I’ve been a Christian since the age of 10 and raised in church. To be fair I’ve really only come to understand it in the last few years.
“Club, I’m only 14 and I’ve been a Christian since the age of 10 and raised in church. To be fair I’ve really only come to understand it in the last few years.”
Wow, Jack. Hmmm, 14 eh? I don’t actually believe that considering how you write, but we’ll go with it. So, you have no problem in lying about me, and have tried to claim you know so much about Christianity. You’re quite an unfortunate child.
I would like to think I do know quite a lot but not as much I’d like.
Jack, you know more than Club. I hope you don’t take her caustic comments to heart. She’s not a person to be taken seriously.
I have a lot of experience not taking ignorant comments seriously.
“I would like to think I do know quite a lot but not as much I’d like.”
Don’t worry, Jack, you are very ignorant.
Love you too.
Jack it’s a shame that you can’t apologize for a lie. 14 years old or not, that’s quite pitiful. And yes, you are ignorant, again, 14 years old or not.
I forgot what I lied about.
“I forgot what I lied about.” amazing, but I’m more than happy to see a Christian intentionally lying or admitting that they can’t read their own posts.
I’m more than happy to play along.
“jacklowry says:
January 20, 2020 at 7:33 pm
Club think that everybody who’s ever said Jesus is evil and hateful.”
https://www.openbible.info/topics/lying Another good chapter is Romans 3.
From my experience you do hate people who talk about Jesus. Who knew hateful atheists double as Bible thumpers.
Yes, a very weird cult. You know, Gott mit Uns and all of that. Now, funny how I see Trumpies lying all of the time on Facebook and Christians posting all of the time on facebook with their claims about marriage and abortion, etc. JB seems to need to play pretend he is a martyr. He seems to think that what he “really” feels would be censored. Now what would those feelings be since I’ve already seen quite a bit worse than what JB has said?
Where the heck did Trump come into this. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean he has to be injected into every conversation.
TDS is real, Jack.
My apologies Club I wasn’t aware of your condition.
“My apologies Club I wasn’t aware of your condition.” – Jack
No apologies needed, Jack. But you should stop believing JB’s lies.
“Where the heck did Trump come into this. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean he has to be injected into every conversation.” – Jack
That’s my example. Chrisitans and trumpies and white supremacists and losers who worship losers like Nazis and Confederates all post what they want on Facebook. JB has tried to claim they and he can’t. So he wants to slink off to MeWe where those self same people are.
I just took a screenshot of this comment and put it on MeWe. 😀
LOL
I kindly ask to not be lumped into a group with Nazis. Thanks
“I kindly ask to not be lumped into a group with Nazis. Thanks”
You can ask, but if you use a service they do because they want to speak lies, then you have to take responsibility for what you’ve chosen, Jack.
Thanks, Amanda, for knowing your audience.
… says the one whose user name is a declaration of jerkdom.
Hmmm, no dear you need to look up schadenfreude again “pleasure derived by someone from another person’s misfortune.”. I do have a great time enjoying the harm people cause themselves with their hate and ignorance, like JB here. I take no joy in people who are suffering through no fault of their own. That’s rather unlike Christians who are sure that anyone who is suffering deserves it thanks to their belief in their god’s “plan”. Happily not all Christians are this sadistic.
He is so afraid he can’t be as hateful and ignorant as he wants, he is running away.
You seem to be applying an unusually narrow definition of “misfortune”. Nothing in the definition of Schadenfreude requires nor implies the misfortune to be self-inflicted.
You say you hate harm caused by various versions of Christianity that Christians invent. Except, apparently, when they are harming themselves, which you enjoy. How conveniently selective this is.
Yep, my definition is pretty much what everyone has of schadenfreude, not enjoying the harm of everyone, but those who deserve it. So, your supposed “shock” is duly noted, Ron.
I do hate the harm caused by Christians and the versions they invent. Now, poor Ron, exactly how is that related to enjoying when Christians hurt themselves? Yep, it is certainly selective. And your point is…..?
I do love this post of yours, Ron “John, I notice the MeWe TOS prohibit posting anything that is “hateful”, without defining what constitutes hateful. Maybe they will be reasonable, maybe not. IIRC, FB used to ban undefined “hateful” content too, before they came up with increasingly detailed, flaming liberal, left-leaning, faith-unfriendly definitions.”
Thanks for confirming what I’ve said, with your fear of being actually held responsible for your words.
Club, neither you nor I possess sufficient omniscience to determine what definition “everyone has”. But any “shock” you note is of your own invention. I merely observe that taking pleasure in another’s misery, and exulting so much in the practice that you make it your handle, is a jerk move – even if you believe they deserve it. No shock, no surprise.
I do not fear being actually held responsible for my words. I do object to having them, and the “politically incorrect” words of others, removed or suppressed for specious “reasons”. Thanks for lying about me. 😉
Club hates the “harm” caused by Christians without specifying it. Then she turns around and insists morality is subjective. When you underscore her inconsistency, she’ll accuse you of “lying” about her.
“Club hates the “harm” caused by Christians without specifying it. Then she turns around and insists morality is subjective. When you underscore her inconsistency, she’ll accuse you of “lying” about her.”
Just saw this. JB, how sad it is that you lie again. I’ve shown what harms Christianity has caused. How many kids have died because their parents thought this god would heal them? Is one too many? ten?
is it okay for Christians to prevent other faith communities to move in or exist? What’s the limit?
How about when Christianity claims something is a sin or unacceptable and a kid kills themselves over those baseless opinions?
Morality is subjective and can get better. Clinging to the ignorance and hate of agrarians needing to pretend that they were “chosen” and living thousands of years ago can’t.
“Morality is subjective and can get better.”
LOLOLOLOLOL
““Morality is subjective and can get better.”
LOLOLOLOLOL” JB
Nice to see you have no evidence that I’m wrong, JB. Just a desperate man trying to laugh nervously when he knows he has failed.
You don’t see the absurdity of saying subjective morals can get “better”. That is funny! The evidence is in the statement itself.
“You don’t see the absurdity of saying subjective morals can get “better”. That is funny! The evidence is in the statement itself.”
poor JB. I guess you don’t get what subjective means either. subjective: relating to or being experience or knowledge as conditioned by personal mental characteristics or states
better: more advantageous or effective
things can’t improve if they are static and objective. You do get that, right?
LOLOLOLOL!
Things can’t improve if “more advantageous or effective” is determined by “personal mental characteristics or states”.
You do get that, right?
“Things can’t improve if “more advantageous or effective” is determined by “personal mental characteristics or states”.
You do get that, right?”
oh my. 🙂 Poor JB, yes, things can improve this way and especially if the concept of improve is by someone’s personal mental characteristics or states.
But do please tell us how something that is objective gets “better”. When does it change and how does it change when it is objective “expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations”
when does an orange “get better”?
It’s hilarious how you think your misunderstanding is my fault.
Do you think a fresh orange is “better” than a rotting orange?
You can’t determine something is “better” unless you have an OBJECTIVE standard for comparison. Fresh oranges are “better” when compared to the objective standard of rotting oranges.
oh my, JB thinks fresh oranges and rotting oranges are the same thing.
JB, for your nonsense to work, how does this fresh orange get better?
Again, your misunderstandings are not my fault. God has apparently turned you over to your own depravity. You are unplugged from the source of all wisdom. It’s a terrible place to be but nobody is making you stay. You are choosing it yourself.
In case JB didn’t see this about free will in my response to Jack:
Now, this supposed definition (JB’s claim that teh ability to choose is free will) fails since choosing isn’t defined as free will for a reason. Free will is something close to this “Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded” The “unimpeded” part being exactly what make the difference between simple choice and free will.
Humans are impeded from making choices by our prior experience and our physiology. If the bible is to be believed, we are impeded from making choices by the interference of this god. So, free will doesn’t exist except as a concept and yep, we can define those with no problem even if it doesn’t exist in reality.
Now, for this: “Again, your misunderstandings are not my fault. God has apparently turned you over to your own depravity. You are unplugged from the source of all wisdom. It’s a terrible place to be but nobody is making you stay. You are choosing it yourself.”
Nope, no misunderstandings at all. You have no idea what you are saying and in your desperation, you think you are being ever so “deep”. You always ignore questions and throw personal insults when you have no answer, JB. That is one of your tells.
Ah…
You define Free will as the ability to make any choice unimpeded by anything.
Then you’re correct. That doesn’t exist.
“You define Free will as the ability to make any choice unimpeded by anything.
Then you’re correct. That doesn’t exist.”
and that’s what I’ve said before repeatedly. Now, why should you suddenly realize this, since free will is described as in the dictionary and in philosophy books exactly as I have indicated? You accused me of trying to change the definition. Why did you lie, JB?
“Here is the false statements you have made: “Club, if you can make choices, you have free will. That’s how I define free will.God “interfering in human actions” doesn’t negate free will. You keep repeating the same things over and over but that doesn’t make them true.” “
“Wow, Club, good to know you have redefined “free will”. Consistency is hard when you’re an atheist.” – JB
Again, JB,
“God gives you the ability to make choices.
If there is no free will, you can’t hold me responsible for the things I do and say.
It’s not complicated.” – JB
So, where does God give the ability to make choices?
“18 So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.”
where does David’s son get a choice?
“The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became very ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child; David fasted, and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood beside him, urging him to rise from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died.”
Where do these humans get a choice?
“17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by agreeing to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. ”
the blind man get a choice?
““Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him.”
Job’s family?
““Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!””
I don’t believe your definition of free will is any good.
“I don’t believe your definition of free will is any good.” – that’s fine JB.
You can claim that these people’s definition, which is mine aren’t any good too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_in_theology
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/
https://activechristianity.org/why-did-god-give-us-a-free-will
and still unable to answer my questions if various people in the bible had free will or not.
If you make a choice, you have free will.
Are you choosing to comment here?
oh and this one too: https://crossexamined.org/5-arguments-existence-free-will/
Did you actually read this article, Club?
The author believes in free will.
Did you actually read this article, Club?
The author believes in free will. – JB
Yep, he does. So, how does this person define free will, JB?
It’s not like you do. 😀 Why is that, JB?
It’s not like you do either, Club.
“It’s not like you do either, Club” – JB
Well, actually it is. LIbertarian free will – “Libertarian free will means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by God.” – theopedia https://www.theopedia.com/libertarian-free-will
Libertarian Free Will is the only true free will there is. If you deny that, you might as well deny that we have free will altogether. I believe we do have free will, and I have both philosophical reasons as well as scriptural reasons for holding this belief. Sometimes the philosophical reasons and biblical reasons coalesce (as you will see below). Below, I will list 3 arguments for the truth that man is a free creature. Before I do, let me make sure you understand the definition of “free will” I’ll be employing. As stated, I reject the idea of compatibilism (that determinism and free will can co-exist) because you cannot choose anything except what you were determined to choose. The Free Will that exists in man is libertarian free will.
Libertarian Free Will asserts that:
1: The Man is the origin and cause of his own actions.
2: The Man, in most cases, [1] will have the ability to choose between 2 or more options. And whichever option he chooses, he did not have to make that choice. He could have chosen one of the alternatives. For example, if presented with A and Non-A, man chooses A, but he didn’t have to choose A. He could have chosen Non-A instead. It laid within his power to choose Non-A. He just didn’t exercise that power.[2]
3: The Man’s choice was undetermined. Nothing internal or external to the man causally determined the man to make the choice he did. His choice was uncaused or undetermined. – from the crossexamined post.
This is what I’ve said
“free will is making choices without limits.”
So, yep, it is indeed like how I define free will and how others do too. You seem the odd man out, JB.
Why is this?
Um…I’ve got no problem with the Libertarian definition of free will. Notice is doesn’t actually say, “choices without limits”.
You don’t believe free will exists as defined by the “Libertarian” view. Have you changed your mind about that?
“Um…I’ve got no problem with the Libertarian definition of free will. Notice is doesn’t actually say, “choices without limits”.
You don’t believe free will exists as defined by the “Libertarian” view. Have you changed your mind about that?” –
Oh JB, I do love how you are so desperate to try to pretend I’ve said things I’ve not and pretend that libertarian free will isn’t what i’ve been talking about all along. How sweet of you to again show Christians aren’t anything special, especially when it comes to morals.
“3: The Man’s choice was undetermined. Nothing internal or external to the man causally determined the man to make the choice he did. His choice was uncaused or undetermined. – from the crossexamined post.”
I guess you don’t understand what this is saying. No surprise there.
You didn’t answer my question.
Is that because you don’t understand it or you’re afraid to answer?
“You don’t believe free will exists as defined by the “Libertarian” view. Have you changed your mind about that?” – JB’s question
my answer “Oh JB, I do love how you are so desperate to try to pretend I’ve said things I’ve not and pretend that libertarian free will isn’t what i’ve been talking about all along. How sweet of you to again show Christians aren’t anything special, especially when it comes to morals.
“3: The Man’s choice was undetermined. Nothing internal or external to the man causally determined the man to make the choice he did. His choice was uncaused or undetermined. – from the crossexamined post.”
I guess you don’t understand what this is saying. No surprise there.”
to make it simpler for JB: I haven’t changed my mind since I’ve been describing libertarian free will all along.
Please do show where I haven’t, JB.
“If you make a choice, you have free will.
Are you choosing to comment here?” – JB
Free will is not mere choice, but keep trying JB.
So you’re afraid to answer the question.
That’s all I need to know.
thanks for falling into that. Yep, I made a choice to post here, limited by my physiology and prior experiences just like I’ve said. Again, no free will as everyone but you defines it.
That you try to redefine free will shows that you know it does not work with your bible, despite the claims by Christians that it does. You have ended up with a god that supposedly picks and chooses, and all of this is a puppet show by your god. There is no specialness in being a Christian now. The claims of Christians that free will is necessary for “love” are gone thanks to you, JB.
You made a choice to post here.
So…does that mean God doesn’t exist or that it is His will that you post here?
“You made a choice to post here.
So…does that mean God doesn’t exist or that it is His will that you post here?” – JB
So, JB, what did you think you found when you lied and thought I wouldn’t answer your question? 😀
Yep, I made the choice to post here based on my physiology and my prior experiences. Still no evidence for god, still no free will as oh so many Christians have claimed is supported by the bible.
But JB, let’s play: why would your god want me to post here and show you wrong all of the time? Why would he want me to post here and show that Jack chose to lie?
Hmmm, maybe I’m Gabriel and here to show how Christians fail since so many of you are now following what could be defined as an anti-christ. God needs to know just how far you’ll fall.
You didn’t answer my question.
Typical.
“So…does that mean God doesn’t exist or that it is His will that you post here?” – JB’s question
my answer that he can’t figure out:
Yep, I made the choice to post here based on my physiology and my prior experiences. Still no evidence for god, still no free will as oh so many Christians have claimed is supported by the bible.
But JB, let’s play: why would your god want me to post here and show you wrong all of the time? Why would he want me to post here and show that Jack chose to lie?
Hmmm, maybe I’m Gabriel and here to show how Christians fail since so many of you are now following what could be defined as an anti-christ. God needs to know just how far you’ll fall.
https://johnbranyan.com/for-now-its-legal-to-be-a-jerk/#comment-46692
to make it simpler for JB: club say god no exist because no evidence. club post here with own limited choice
club not good thinker. club irrational.
“club not good thinker. club irrational.” – JB
And still no evidence for your claims. Tsk.
Squawk! Still no evidence!
Squawk! Still no evidence!
You have the philosophical depth of a parrot.
“Squawk! Still no evidence!
Squawk! Still no evidence!
You have the philosophical depth of a parrot.” – JB
and still no evidence. But time to write this. Tsk.
What would serve as evidence for my claims?
“What would serve as evidence for my claims?” – JB
I guess JB’s memory is failing. Quotes, dear
“to make it simpler for JB: I haven’t changed my mind since I’ve been describing libertarian free will all along.
Please do show where I haven’t, JB.”
and still no answers for my questions here: https://johnbranyan.com/for-now-its-legal-to-be-a-jerk/#comment-46613
Still no evidence for god, still no free will as oh so many Christians have claimed is supported by the bible.
You can’t tell me what would serve as evidence but you’re certain none exists.
Brilliant!
“You can’t tell me what would serve as evidence but you’re certain none exists.
Brilliant!” – JB
wow, JB, you are failing in comprehension. as I said “Quotes, dear.” Right here: https://johnbranyan.com/for-now-its-legal-to-be-a-jerk/#comment-47138
I expect quotes to support your attempts to lie about what I’ve said.
There’s no evidence that you ever told me what you would accept as evidence.
“There’s no evidence that you ever told me what you would accept as evidence.” – JB
Alas, JB can’t find posts and then can’t read them: https://johnbranyan.com/for-now-its-legal-to-be-a-jerk/#comment-47138
here’s the evidence. “What would serve as evidence for my claims?” – JB
I guess JB’s memory is failing. Quotes, dear
“to make it simpler for JB: I haven’t changed my mind since I’ve been describing libertarian free will all along.
Please do show where I haven’t, JB.””
Wow. So, we left with either JB is suffering from some neurological problem or that he is intentionally lying. Such a shame either way.
“5 But if our injustice serves to confirm the justice of God, what should we say? That God is unjust to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world? 7 But if through my falsehood God’s truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!” – Romans 3
I guess JB might be insisting that his god’s words don’t apply to him.
Ah! I understand.
Repeating the same comments multiple times has suddenly made your irrationality rational. I can now agree that evidence of no evidence is evidenced by the lack of evidence in the evidence which was never defined.
“Ah! I understand.
Repeating the same comments multiple times has suddenly made your irrationality rational. I can now agree that evidence of no evidence is evidenced by the lack of evidence in the evidence which was never defined.” – JB
Poor addled JB. I see your minions have abandoned you to your failure.
His “minions” abandoned him because you are insufferable and we got tired of you.
nice excuse Jack. I see you still aren’t able to refute my points and still are too dishonest to apologize for lying about me. I wonder, do you think your god approves of that? And how is it okay with your god to have JB consistently repeatly lies about me and what I’ve said? Does he use your god like a vending machine, intentionally sinning but expecting this god to forgive him without question?
Paul indicates that even lying “for” this god is a sin. Romans 3. One of the few good parts of the bible.
I can’t argue with non-existent points.